ru12

So what exactly is your plan? the only way that I know of to stop problematic behaviors is to stop them. if you have 20 addictions that are threatening your life then you probably need professional help. But if you can't or won't do that then prioritize your addictions and stop the most damaging first. Or you can keep posting reasons why you are so different that nothing that has worked for others can possibly work for you. Personally I'd work on stopping.

yinzer

Do you think you are the one person in the world whom God despises? Why would he pick you out? If he despises everyone, then why are people still enjoying life?

One poster on here mentioned an experiment. Quit your addictions for three months and see if your brain doesn't adjust and things aren't better. Then hit him upside the head if they aren't. What do you have to lose? Three months of self destruction?

There were a lot of people in my life who wanted me to fail. I succeded in spite of them and they came to my side. Maybe God is the same way. Helps those who help themselves and all?

Adjust your program to suit your needs. Take what you can use and leave the rest.

yinzer

Back to add: I could always find something that triggered my problematic behavior. At least that's the way I figured it. What doesn't trigger your behavior that is positive? Focus on that.

FLCamper

You're getting a lot of responses and suggestions. Even if you've tried them, want not give them another shot? There are some experienced people on here taking their time to give you good advice.

So far, it looks like you just want to prove a point.

LBrain makes a great analogy: It's like trying to figure out why the fire started before putting it out. Quit drinking,

picturebigger

i was the same about AA at first. i don't care too much for organized religion (though i respect everyone who practices it). to each their own. i believe in a "God", but it's not a man with a beard sitting in the clouds. i'm closer to the consciousness side. the power of everything around me. mother nature, energy of the sun, amazing characteristics of water, the earth's electricity and how it exists in all of us, collective consciousness, how we influence each other, good karma, etc. cheesy, i know. trust me, i don't pray or preach it to anyone or practice with others. but i think organized religion isn't far from the same, only loaded with symbolism created in a time when science couldn't explain things, or couldn't explain them in a way the masses could understand. so no fault of organized religion, no fault of science, basically i think they're just explaining some of the same things. and maybe i'm wrong, who knows. who cares. it's just cool to imagine. that's as far as i can take it.

so i had the same impression of AA at first. i only started about a month ago so i'm no seasoned veteran. at first i was unimpressed when people would share their "give yourself to the Lord and you'll be saved" stories. how can my alcoholic self, in week 1, struggling with withdrawals about to vibrate out of my seat from shaking so much, simply think "ok God, i accept you" and tah-dah i'm healed. yeah right.

i almost quit going. then one day, day 6 in my quit, i'll never forget. i couldn't escape the craving. i was running in circles. at wits end, seconds from disaster, had no clue what to do so i did anything, i grabbed the AA big book and just turned to a page and started reading. i don't read for a hobby. i just had no idea what else to do, nothing worked, so i did that. it worked (for about 30 mins, til the next craving! what a miserable day, but i survived).

i randomly flipped to page 38. it was a story about a professional who had an alcohol problem. it was me. that was the first thing that made me feel like AA may can relate. then it led to the next chapter, We Agnositcs. i HIGHLY recommend you read just this one chapter before giving up on the AA idea. i was shocked at what it said. it answered this exact concern i had about God and how i don't fit in AA because I don't go to church. it explained that every reference to "God" is only what you perceive to be God or a power/influence. you don't have to be religious. then it even went on to explain how the alcoholic in the early stages of quitting can't possibly relate to "give yourself to God and you'll be healed". the book explains it MUCH better than I am here, but point is it made me feel better. it gave me my own perspective to use in all AA meetings moving forward.

personal beliefs aside, i mostly ignore the God part in AA. it's not all about God. when someone says "i pray to God every night, God is the only way to quit" it's mostly in one ear and out the other to me. i say good for them, i'm sincerely glad it helps them. doesn't apply to me at such a deep level but i'm not going to judge. we're all different. but the rest of the stuff they talk about... wow... every day i go in there i hear something more amazing than the day before-- to the point i write some of it down and read it again later. it's a great tool for the toolbox. and you can make some really good friends. friends that care. my VERY FIRST DAY in AA, i knew no one, and in 5 minutes without even asking, they piled around me with a piece of paper with all of their phone numbers to call them anytime. amazing.

the point of all this is simply, if there's one thing i took away from reading that chapter, it was a feeling like i was supposed to read it. i was brought to read it. whether that's true or not, again it's just cool to imagine it maybe being possible. from that moment forward, i told myself if i have another drink, my "God" may punish me or may not, but the only way to find out is to test "him". i haven't had a drink since. every temptation, i think back to that. i hated it, i was irritated almost angry at times with this "God" i wasn't even sure existed, threatening me like that. but it worked. i didn't want to test to find out.

i love going to AA now. they are your old bar buddies that you can still safely hang out with. they're in the same boat as you. AA doesn't teach you how to quit, it teaches you how to live with quitting. how to quit is an impossibly simple concept that's incredibly hard to do-- just don't drink. no amount of books or meetings in the world will ever show you a secret way to cut corners around that process. but after the withdrawals end and your mind starts playing tricks, it becomes hard to remember how bad it was. AA keeps it at the front of your mind, keeps you focused. like anything that's hard to remember, your chances of remembering something are higher when you're surrounded by others who were there with you. think of your childhood memories you forgot, and a family member asks you "remember the time when you...". you completely forgot til they brought it up. same with AA and the old memories of why you quit.

after reading We Agnostics, if you're still absolutely not interested in AA, maybe check out outpatient therapy. i go there too, 3 nights a week for 3hrs, they give great tips to get you through the physical quit. also the SMARTS program has no religion, just tips and tricks. anything works better than nothing. just keep your schedule as busy as possible with as much of any type of recovery meetings as you can and i assure you it'll give you more to think about than just "don't drink". it gives you a new routine, a new commitment, a focus. each time i have a craving, instead of just thinking of alcohol (like the last time i tried to quit alone and uneducated), now a flood of other thoughts rush in too-- all the tips, tricks, and stories i picked up at various meetings. the alcohol thought gets drowned out much faster. it's the only way i've been successful so far. 18 years, daily drinker, finally sober now and feel MUCH more empowered than the last quit alone. give it a shot. good luck.

sorry for the long post!

blossom123

I don't think I'm "so different that nothing that has worked for others can possibly work for me."
I just think that people who are giving advice on how to overcome problematic behaviors aren't telling the whole story, I think they are leaving a great unsaid.

Or maybe I'm seeing it that way, simply because I'm used to seeing things this way. From early on, I was singled out and discriminated against, and people would treat me like I have some major, irrepairable flaw. My parents didn't exactly want me and blamed me for their unahppiness (that if I didn't exist, they could have separated and live happily).

I'm sorry if I don't come across as proactive enough. I've given myself this weekend to figure out a new approach.

It does help to talk, though. Like I said above, it only now, for the first time, occurs to me that maybe I think I first need "that something extra special that some other people have and I don't" simply because from early on, the people in my life were telling me that.
I have spent so much money and time on various treatments and counseling. But I have never before made that connection -- that maybe this sense of lack, this sense of my being fatally insufficient (and which seems to have halted my progress so far) is yet another one of those things I have learned from early on, but which might not be true.

blossom123

Well, not just me, but people like me. People who shouldn't exist. People whom their parents didn't want, people who were a burden to their parents even before they were born.

Heh.

Seriously. How to calculate this?
Let's say I round it up to 100 days, 10 most problematic behaviors.
If I lapse in one of the behaviors for one day, do I start the whole 100 from the beginning again?
Ideally, I would have to do 10 out of 10 for 100 days straight.
But what if I lapse in any one of them?
How to set the boundaries for this?

I've done this before, and it became literally an act of "managing" problematic behaviors!
For example, I can lapse in one, still have the success rate of 90% (which doesn't seem so bad), but that one I lapsed in can still ruin everything.


Do you have any suggestions for how to deal with the disapproval from the authors/facilitators of that program because of my picking and choosing?


!!
I can't think of anything.
I know what my triggers are, and avoiding them is a full-time job (and leaves me exhausted). But I can't think of anything that doesn't trigger my problematic behaviors that would also be positive -- that is, I can't think of anything positive that I do which would help me avoid problematic behaviors. For me, avoiding problematic behaviors really is a sheer act of will, a grit-your-teeth-and-bear-it kind of thing.

Everydaysabonus

It seems to me that you are looking for reasons why you can't do this jnstead of why you can. You have found a reason to disagree almost instantly with all of the suggestions and experiences of people here and while i do not think that you should take them on blindly and agree, I do think that they all deserve further consideration. After all they have helped the people who took the time to answer you whereas nothing that you are currently doing is working with regards to your recovery.

blossom123

I don't think you are being fair here. There are suggestions I have given further consideration, and I've asked specific questions about them, some of which were not answered.

Everydaysabonus

Ok. I think it was fair and I considered what i wrote before I posted it but if it came across bluntly, I apologise.

Bird615

When I first got to AA, I accepted that there "probably" was some sort of God, but I wasn't too sure. What I was pretty sure of was that this god couldn't really do anything for me.

What I did do, was just leave all that and all those questions surrounding it alone, and carry on with the steps. Maybe there was a god or something "out there" and maybe it could help me; that's about all I knew. I tried to keep an open mind. So I prayed even though I wasn't sure if anything was there or if it could do anything. I worked the steps and eventually all that changed when I began to see that something really was working in my life. I still don't really know what it is, but I've seen from experience that it works for me.

The point is, I left all those difficult and confusing questions alone long enough to see evidence of something working and then began to develop my own concept of what that was.

blossom123

How did you cope with the uncertainty in the meantime? (At least I'm assuming you had uncertainty in the meantime.)

Or did you just "go through the motions" somehow?

ru12

Oh blossom...

We cannot help the circumstances of our birth. As children we are dependent and helpless and if our parents suck we suffer. I get it. My childhood was a disaster. All I'm trying to get you to do is objectively look at your life and determine what behavior is hurting you the most. Address that one first. I don't know of another way to go and I've said my piece. May you find your way.

miamifella

Maybe it is because I was raised to believe that god was all-good and all-loving, but this idea of a hateful, petty, evil god, who would cause pain just because he can ...well, I can see that would make it hard to live in hope.

I also found meetings triggering, so I went into therapy. Since a good clinical psychologist is likely to be faith-neutral---neither advocating belief or non-belief--you might find this a better fit than a strictly secular approach.

blossom123

I will address this after all.

The way you replied is common enough.
I wouldn't call it blunt (or 'too direct').
But replies like yours do make me think that I lack something significant.

It's that "If you don't approach recovery (or anything else for that matter) on the terms I suggest or approve of, then this means only one thing: that you don't want to recover (and should be judged severely)."
I've heard this sort of thing before. It's very discouraging.
As if there is something wrong with a person who is not satisfied with a platitude or a mere outline.

William Styron wrote an essay about his depression, "Darkness visible". It's about how late in his life, he became depressed, and eventually freely got himself institutionalized to a mental health institution, in an effort to heal. In that institution, he realized though that the only thing worse than his depression was the treatment he was receiving there for it. So he complied with it just to get out of the institution, not to recover from depression.

His essay always struck me as strangely superficial -- but maybe this superficiality was the point somehow.
Not that there is such a thing as overthinking, but that there is a real limit to what can meaningfully be discussed with people.

picturebigger

just quit one day at a time. all the things you're uncertain of and can't explain can come later. it takes time. as each day passes, your mind will grow a little clearer and you'll begin to find answers or conclusions of your own that suit you and only you. that's all that matters. for now, don't stress over it. put it in your pocket and allow time to bring them to you when it's time.

look at the other side, your addicted mind isn't finding any answers. what do you have to lose? clear your head, heal your body, then watch what flows in on its own.

Everydaysabonus

No you have misunderstood me.

I do not care how you approach recovery, it does not have to be my way or anyone else's way, it has to be your way.

As for judging you I don't, I don't know you and i have no right to. All i was doing was taking a look at the thread as objectively as i could (which of course will always be subjective) and offering my opinion.

I can see that is has upset you and i'm sorry for that. I hope you find the answers that you search.

Everydaysabonus

If I hadn't felt that I had something constructive to say, I wouldn't have commented at all. There is a moderator on this thread and no doubt she will remove my post if I was speaking out of turn. Good day to you Blossom.

Anna

Please offer experience and support. Don't be upset if anyone, including the OP, chooses to accept your input or not. If someone's posts upset you, please use the Ignore function.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)

MrSmith

I think that response was much better than mine....