Food for thought.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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You may have mentioned this before, but when you quit (9 years ago now right?), did you quit because you had to as your health was failing you, or did you quit because you decided to face the music and wanted to get better? And when you did, were you successful right out of the gate or did you stumble a few times. If I recall you've said that you had a few relapses but obviously got it right at some point.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
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If you say the theory or system of moderation is a tool born of extreme denial, what do you mean when you say that you may fall under its sway at some time?
Do you still keep the idea of drinking as a possible future option, or occurrence?
Do you still keep the idea of drinking as a possible future option, or occurrence?
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 744
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ink-moderately
Not sure I pasted the link correctly but this is a good article about abstinence vs moderation. It distinguishes between non-dependent problem drinker and alcoholic. Thing is, I know I'm alcoholic and that moderation will not work (I also know that based on my past 3 or so years of real life experience). I do have close relationships with a couple of folks I would put in the first category and maybe it would work for them to moderate. However I just don't see many non-alcoholic problem drinkers ever really want to moderate until they've crossed the line into alcoholism. So there you go...
Not sure I pasted the link correctly but this is a good article about abstinence vs moderation. It distinguishes between non-dependent problem drinker and alcoholic. Thing is, I know I'm alcoholic and that moderation will not work (I also know that based on my past 3 or so years of real life experience). I do have close relationships with a couple of folks I would put in the first category and maybe it would work for them to moderate. However I just don't see many non-alcoholic problem drinkers ever really want to moderate until they've crossed the line into alcoholism. So there you go...
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by thomas11 
You may have mentioned this before, but when you quit (9 years ago now right?), did you quit because you had to as your health was failing you, or did you quit because you decided to face the music and wanted to get better? And when you did, were you successful right out of the gate or did you stumble a few times. If I recall you've said that you had a few relapses but obviously got it right at some point.
I quit to save my life.
Wanting a better life was in there for sure but I wanted to be alive first and foremost.
There are easier ways to quit (who knows I may have quit earlier if I'd had SR?) and there are a multitude of points to stop at before you get to where I was...but like I said...I was pretty proud and arrogant...and also foolish.
D
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Hi thomas11
I think that many artists wouldn't have got to where they are / were without their relationship with booze / drugs / depression.
And that's because they are appealing to an audience who are also drunk / stoned / depressed - I don't think it had anything to do with the substances themselves.
I hate the term "functioning alcoholic" because we all know that we didn't function when we were off our faces on whatever - because otherwise we wouldn't be here.
If I'm honest I'm really tired of fighting battles that other people don't seem to have to fight!
But it's fight or die right?
Sooooo dramatic for a Saturday morning
But true!
Big hugs x
I think that many artists wouldn't have got to where they are / were without their relationship with booze / drugs / depression.
And that's because they are appealing to an audience who are also drunk / stoned / depressed - I don't think it had anything to do with the substances themselves.
I hate the term "functioning alcoholic" because we all know that we didn't function when we were off our faces on whatever - because otherwise we wouldn't be here.
If I'm honest I'm really tired of fighting battles that other people don't seem to have to fight!
But it's fight or die right?
Sooooo dramatic for a Saturday morning
But true!
Big hugs x
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
But it isn't just us who are affected by our alcohol use--it's those close to us
who have to clean up after us, cover for us, pick up the pieces for us.
So many drunk genius stories wouldn't be with us if someone else wasn't
paying the bill for the drunk to continue to "function", both literally and metaphorically.
So many of those famous drunks were able to make art because they used the
life energy of other people to manage the mundane aspects of their lives.
Hemingway, for example, used women in this way ruthlessly.
He may have been a great writer, but he caused a great deal of personal harm to family and friends.
That's just plain wrong from where I sit now.
who have to clean up after us, cover for us, pick up the pieces for us.
So many drunk genius stories wouldn't be with us if someone else wasn't
paying the bill for the drunk to continue to "function", both literally and metaphorically.
So many of those famous drunks were able to make art because they used the
life energy of other people to manage the mundane aspects of their lives.
Hemingway, for example, used women in this way ruthlessly.
He may have been a great writer, but he caused a great deal of personal harm to family and friends.
That's just plain wrong from where I sit now.
New Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 20
[QUOTE=Dee74;5930123]
Once I start thinking about 'successful alcoholics', I'm on dangerous ground because my AV is fueled from pride and arrogance.
One of my greatest failures, according to my ego, was my failure to control my drinking.
I felt like, with every thing else I'd been able to achieve, controlled drinking should have been within my grasp too...if only I'd done x, y, or z." end Quote
This is EXACTLY what is wrong with me!! And why I succeed in not drinking for months..then think "Drink" and do it.
Because I think I SHOULD be able to, because I been through some things in life that have left others devestated to the point they couldn't function.
But I have overcome those things, so why can I not overcome this in the same way.
That and rebelling against the idea I SHOULDN'T be drinking, because I can't handle it, I know I can't..everyone else knows I can't, but this tiny little rebel in me reckons I can. And it's not the AV or BEAST that I recognise at work here. Not the "self destruct, or the you don't have a problem" It's the fighter in me, the competitor. The "most people drink normally, and most people wouldn't have made it through what I did with their minds intact" (and without drink)
So I am stronger than "most people" so this time, I can MAKE myself drink normally.
Is that arrogance?
Thomas11 I understand what you are saying about some people sort of needing the drink to become what they did, in order to produce the work that they did.
But most of the people I can think of, especially the "creative" ones..were what you would call tortured souls, and so are a lot of alcoholics without the creativity, and I would rather my soul wasn't tortured haha
Once I start thinking about 'successful alcoholics', I'm on dangerous ground because my AV is fueled from pride and arrogance.
One of my greatest failures, according to my ego, was my failure to control my drinking.
I felt like, with every thing else I'd been able to achieve, controlled drinking should have been within my grasp too...if only I'd done x, y, or z." end Quote
This is EXACTLY what is wrong with me!! And why I succeed in not drinking for months..then think "Drink" and do it.
Because I think I SHOULD be able to, because I been through some things in life that have left others devestated to the point they couldn't function.
But I have overcome those things, so why can I not overcome this in the same way.
That and rebelling against the idea I SHOULDN'T be drinking, because I can't handle it, I know I can't..everyone else knows I can't, but this tiny little rebel in me reckons I can. And it's not the AV or BEAST that I recognise at work here. Not the "self destruct, or the you don't have a problem" It's the fighter in me, the competitor. The "most people drink normally, and most people wouldn't have made it through what I did with their minds intact" (and without drink)
So I am stronger than "most people" so this time, I can MAKE myself drink normally.
Is that arrogance?
Thomas11 I understand what you are saying about some people sort of needing the drink to become what they did, in order to produce the work that they did.
But most of the people I can think of, especially the "creative" ones..were what you would call tortured souls, and so are a lot of alcoholics without the creativity, and I would rather my soul wasn't tortured haha
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
But it isn't just us who are affected by our alcohol use--it's those close to us
who have to clean up after us, cover for us, pick up the pieces for us.
So many drunk genius stories wouldn't be with us if someone else wasn't
paying the bill for the drunk to continue to "function", both literally and metaphorically.
So many of those famous drunks were able to make art because they used the
life energy of other people to manage the mundane aspects of their lives.
Hemingway, for example, used women in this way ruthlessly.
He may have been a great writer, but he caused a great deal of personal harm to family and friends.
That's just plain wrong from where I sit now.
who have to clean up after us, cover for us, pick up the pieces for us.
So many drunk genius stories wouldn't be with us if someone else wasn't
paying the bill for the drunk to continue to "function", both literally and metaphorically.
So many of those famous drunks were able to make art because they used the
life energy of other people to manage the mundane aspects of their lives.
Hemingway, for example, used women in this way ruthlessly.
He may have been a great writer, but he caused a great deal of personal harm to family and friends.
That's just plain wrong from where I sit now.
For the record, I was daily drinker which wasn't necessarily bad, but I was neglecting my wife terribly. Then I was a weekend warrior, and that went fine about 70% of the time, but 30% of the time there was some "event" that put me in the doghouse. What put me over the edge with myself and people around me was the 2-3 benders I had. I'm a hardcore guy, and when I bendered, it was around the clock. I would like to say I'm lucky I didn't end up in the hospital, but I did. But not for detox, I hurt myself, really bad.
Lastly, this morning was yet another Saturday I've awoke without feeling crappy, and it just doesn't seem to get old. Feels great.
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