Indulge me in a debate
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
I am not sold on the disease terminology either. That being said, I do not think people drink because they are selfish. Almost every addict and alcoholic I know has suffered some form of trauma and many drank and used to escape. It is a bad coping mechanism, for sure. But for many I think it is a coping mechanism. For me, it was a coping mechanism I used to escape the horrors of my head after surviving childhood sexual abuse and the resulting PTSD that plagued me well into adulthood. But, it became more than coping mechanism...it became the only life I knew.
Taken from recovery.org:
Sources estimate that 25 and 75 percent of people who survive abuse and/or violent trauma develop issues related to alcohol abuse.
Accidents, illness or natural disasters translate to between 10 to 33 percent of survivors reporting alcohol abuse.
A diagnosis of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) increases the risk of developing alcohol abuse.
Female trauma survivors who do not struggle with PTSD face increased risk for an alcohol use disorder.
Male and female sexual abuse survivors experience a higher rate of alcohol and drug use disorders compared to those who have not survived such abuse.
Addicts and alcoholics deserve love and caring and compassion like anyone else. Calling them names is not helpful. We're only human. And we CAN and Do change.
Taken from recovery.org:
Sources estimate that 25 and 75 percent of people who survive abuse and/or violent trauma develop issues related to alcohol abuse.
Accidents, illness or natural disasters translate to between 10 to 33 percent of survivors reporting alcohol abuse.
A diagnosis of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) increases the risk of developing alcohol abuse.
Female trauma survivors who do not struggle with PTSD face increased risk for an alcohol use disorder.
Male and female sexual abuse survivors experience a higher rate of alcohol and drug use disorders compared to those who have not survived such abuse.
Addicts and alcoholics deserve love and caring and compassion like anyone else. Calling them names is not helpful. We're only human. And we CAN and Do change.
Gl@ss Artist & Cat Lady
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by Nonsensical 
I don't really care what keeps anyone sober except me, and I am not sure why others feel the need to prove their way is the only right way.
If someone was tearing up their life with alcohol, but then got sober because they believed a giant invisible poop demon was constantly hovering over their head and the next time they took a drink the poop demon would take an enormous dump on them, like Carl, I'd say Good for you for getting sober. Why do I care if they believe in invisible poop demons?
My $0.02.
If someone was tearing up their life with alcohol, but then got sober because they believed a giant invisible poop demon was constantly hovering over their head and the next time they took a drink the poop demon would take an enormous dump on them, like Carl, I'd say Good for you for getting sober. Why do I care if they believe in invisible poop demons?
My $0.02.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 617
How could this be helpful to someone on day one? They are going through detox and withdraw period, not the philosophical how did I manage to get here period. They want to get through TODAY. Not have someone tell them they are using excuses and not taking responsibility.
If someone gets sober on the idea they have a disease then so be it.
If someone gets sober on the idea they have a disease then so be it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by ElleDee
Thanks for the well-needed laugh. I almost snorted my coffee!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 937
I am definitely not walking around thinking or telling people I have a disease. Is your logic here trying to convince the newcomers who are still drinking to stop using the word "disease" as a free pass to continue drinking or something?
Gl@ss Artist & Cat Lady
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by Bunny211
I wish there was a poop demon. I would've gotten sober a lot sooner if I thought that a giant turd was gonna chase me around my apartment and crap all over me every time I drank!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Hi Yearlander.
Now that I have stopped drinking and done work on my recovery I do see, very very clearly how selfish my drinking was. Thing is, when I was still drinking, or even when I'd stopped but not worked on my recovery, that kind of insight did elude me. I don't think I'm so unusual in that. In my twisted head, I was a victim of circumstances, and HAD to drink to get through the traumatic and unfair blows that life inflicted on me. Of course, now, thinking back to that causes a wry smile, and substantial embarrassment.
And I do see what you mean with the sin stuff as well. I'm currently reading a really great book about sin for that very reason. It's by Graham Tomlin, and called 'The Seven Deadly Sins: How To Overcome Life's Most Toxic Habits'. So far it's been very useful and given me a lot to think about.
All that being said, I think there would be more helpful posts that we can put on the Newcomers forum. Presumably, 4 years ago something happened to make you decide to stop drinking, and you changed things about the way you live to make that the trouble free change that it has been for you. Perhaps you could encourage some newcomers with your experience, strength and hope? Tell us about your own selfishness and how you overcame it. It's much easier for any of us to learn from others by relating to their weaknesses than have a stranger pointing the finger at our own. If your motivation for posting here is NOT to be helpful, then perhaps you could borrow my book on sin and decide for yourself which your next area of self-improvement could be. None of us are without sin, and generally all we can do is work on our own character defects, rather than distract ourselves with those of others. I may not drink any more, but I know I've still got a lot of work that I need to do.
So. Your story? How were you selfish when you drank, what happened, and how has your life changed now?
Now that I have stopped drinking and done work on my recovery I do see, very very clearly how selfish my drinking was. Thing is, when I was still drinking, or even when I'd stopped but not worked on my recovery, that kind of insight did elude me. I don't think I'm so unusual in that. In my twisted head, I was a victim of circumstances, and HAD to drink to get through the traumatic and unfair blows that life inflicted on me. Of course, now, thinking back to that causes a wry smile, and substantial embarrassment.
And I do see what you mean with the sin stuff as well. I'm currently reading a really great book about sin for that very reason. It's by Graham Tomlin, and called 'The Seven Deadly Sins: How To Overcome Life's Most Toxic Habits'. So far it's been very useful and given me a lot to think about.
All that being said, I think there would be more helpful posts that we can put on the Newcomers forum. Presumably, 4 years ago something happened to make you decide to stop drinking, and you changed things about the way you live to make that the trouble free change that it has been for you. Perhaps you could encourage some newcomers with your experience, strength and hope? Tell us about your own selfishness and how you overcame it. It's much easier for any of us to learn from others by relating to their weaknesses than have a stranger pointing the finger at our own. If your motivation for posting here is NOT to be helpful, then perhaps you could borrow my book on sin and decide for yourself which your next area of self-improvement could be. None of us are without sin, and generally all we can do is work on our own character defects, rather than distract ourselves with those of others. I may not drink any more, but I know I've still got a lot of work that I need to do.
So. Your story? How were you selfish when you drank, what happened, and how has your life changed now?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 28
Yes I was selfish. I ruined my daughters childhood, and she will never have another.
I only wanted to "feel better"
There was a lot of other ways I could have sought to "feel better"
But I chose to put myself out of it instead.
I hurt and worried the people who loved me. Just for those few hours where I could be be "at peace"
It was selfish. It was my pleasure at their expence and I have no defence for it.
I was SELIFISH.
I only wanted to "feel better"
There was a lot of other ways I could have sought to "feel better"
But I chose to put myself out of it instead.
I hurt and worried the people who loved me. Just for those few hours where I could be be "at peace"
It was selfish. It was my pleasure at their expence and I have no defence for it.
I was SELIFISH.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
Well I'm glad you found a way to stop killing yourself with alcohol. To any newcomer that reads this just remember that there are many paths out of addiction. Pick one and start walking. You can get and stay contently sober.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 242
Hmmm... It's almost May...
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,904
If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Bunny211
I am not sold on the disease terminology either. That being said, I do not think people drink because they are selfish. Almost every addict and alcoholic I know has suffered some form of trauma and many drank and used to escape. It is a bad coping mechanism, for sure. But for many I think it is a coping mechanism. For me, it was a coping mechanism I used to escape the horrors of my head after surviving childhood sexual abuse and the resulting PTSD that plagued me well into adulthood. But, it became more than coping mechanism...it became the only life I knew.
Taken from recovery.org:
Sources estimate that 25 and 75 percent of people who survive abuse and/or violent trauma develop issues related to alcohol abuse.
Accidents, illness or natural disasters translate to between 10 to 33 percent of survivors reporting alcohol abuse.
A diagnosis of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) increases the risk of developing alcohol abuse.
.
Taken from recovery.org:
Sources estimate that 25 and 75 percent of people who survive abuse and/or violent trauma develop issues related to alcohol abuse.
Accidents, illness or natural disasters translate to between 10 to 33 percent of survivors reporting alcohol abuse.
A diagnosis of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) increases the risk of developing alcohol abuse.
.
What I was saying was, the easy "fix" the instant "fix" is the the bad "fix"
Work through the bad crap when we are feeling sober..and painful as that is..it has the result that it heals
Drink doesn't heal...it hides
That's all I was trying to say.
I judge no one.
I let no one judge me.
But sometimes when I was drunk..I needed someone to say "enough is enough"
I got to be a nasty person that I even hated.
And that's not good
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Congrats on 4 yrs yler, I read Jack Trimpey's book too and quit full stop. I agree with alot of what you are saying. I had a lot of defenses before.. until I accepted that they really weren't and stripping them all down they essentially were justifications for allowing myself to indulge and get wasted , damn the consequences.
But the best take- away from this perspective and most helpful one to share in this particular forum , I think, is that continuing to self intoxicate is a choice , even if it doesn't 'feel' like it.
But the best take- away from this perspective and most helpful one to share in this particular forum , I think, is that continuing to self intoxicate is a choice , even if it doesn't 'feel' like it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 28
Thank you so much dwtbt..I thought I was going mad for a minute there lol. I remember now why Jack said "stay away from "recovery" groups" But it's sooo god to hear from someone who got better the same way..without all this "angst"
I was only trying to help.
But seems I am an anti-christ lol
I was only trying to help.
But seems I am an anti-christ lol
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 28
Thank you so much dwtbt..I thought I was going mad for a minute there lol. I remember now why Jack said "stay away from "recovery" groups" But it's sooo good to hear from someone who got better the same way..without all this "angst"
I was only trying to help.
But seems I am an anti-christ lol
I was only trying to help.
But seems I am an anti-christ lol
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