Berrybean

Hope the appointment goes well.

And yes. Dee is a legend.

Obladi

Antidepressants definitely helped me.
The medication that will make you very ill if you drink is antabuse. But the thing is you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT drink if you are taking it. Because it can make you very ill indeed. Based on your own self-sabotage over the past few months, that sounds very risky.

PLEASE tell the doctor everything. I really think it's your only hope.

thomas11

That's how we grow and learn, by breaking barriers and going beyond our comfort zones. Seriously.

Dee74

Everything seems to lead back to drinking Mike.
Last time it was the seroquel, today it's trauma, and fear.

I'm not berating you or calling you out - I was like that too...which is why I know until you choose a route that doesn't involve you drinking, you're going to go round in circles.

Change is needed.
Where's the change - real change - in all of this, Mike?

D

MikeM

I don't know man. I've been avoiding help, but I've also made honest efforts. It's not all BS. And it bothered me that some of the things that were honest were called BS, but I'm ok with that now. People are just trying to help.

The real change in all this... I need to dig deep for that. Into something I don't like at all.

Some people get traumatized. Other people don't get traumatized by the same thing. Alcohol is a layer on top of the trauma.

So looking deeper, what caused me to get traumatized? And that gets me to a very sensitive area that I don't like to talk about. Or even admit to myself.

It has been diagnosed and there is treatment for it. And that's what I'm going for, getting that treated. It's a developmental disorder. In my personality/identity, something went wrong with my development, causing all sorts of problems. This has started at a very young age.

I keep saying it, I need the underlying cause solved. I can hear people say already to not drink despite it. But it's so closely tied into it. And I'm not making excuses here. It really is heavy.

Basically, a large part of becoming a person has gone wrong for me. This requires very specialized and intense therapy. Which I will get. It is so intense that you're not allowed to participate in traffic for half an hour after a session.

Without that getting treated, trying to quit drinking is playing whac-a-mole. It will pop up based on it. I need to unplug the damn machine.

This is far more personal than I ever wanted to get, but it may be good for me. This place is anonymous anyway. And drinking is just one expression of the problem. Sometimes it's eating. Sometimes it's sex. Sometimes is buying things uncontrollably.

So, there you have it. The thing I never wanted to tell because it hits to the core of who I am. But if I want to get help here, I need to tell it.

And this is the whole story. And not an excuse.

It's also why I'm not going to rehab, because the centers here can't treat development problems. It is a very specialized area. And I need treatment there. Which is why I got on SSRI's. Someone said they don't work for PTSD but they are designed to help treat that. I need to get on those meds and get deep therapy. Otherwise the surface-level, treating the addiction will never stick.

This all is why it has been so incredibly difficult for me.

Dee74

I thought I needed to know the underlying reasons too, Mike, but that was just another excuse for me.

I searched sure, but I drank all the while too.
When I had to quit I quit without getting any closer to the why.

Down the track I was much more capable at working out the why

Thats not to say I ignored the other stuff going on like depression but I sought help for it. I accepted self medication was a brutal cul de sac, and I stopped drinking on it.

I know you have a few things going on - but you seem to be throwing roadblocks in your own way when it comes to actually doing something..it's always tomorrow or when I do this, or once I deal with that....

Noones asking you to suddenly be over your mental issues, to feel terrific, or that determination is the answer to all you problems...but drinking will not help - and will make things worse.

No matter what else you have going on, I think it's a reasonable ask fdor anyone that they try to stop drinking (or stay stopped) and ask for help?

D

ICanDoBetter

Mike - I don't have personal experience with trauma or ptsd, but we all have our root cause and triggers that are personal to us. And sometimes you just have to take the leap of faith toward what your heart and gut say is right, even if you have to give up some control. I agree with Dee's comments. As an outsider having read your posts, while I cannot claim to be exactly where you are, I can react only to what you have shared. And you don't seem to have given yourself fully... You may have to accept that you don't have the answer, you don't know the cause... But that you acknowledge the problem. Be truthful and totally honest with the Doctor. Write it down if you can't say it aloud. If you aren't honest with the doc and your family and counsellors, they can't offer you the full understanding and support that you need.

But they can't do it for you... Nor can we. You need to let go and have faith that those you entrust to help you will do just that with your best interests at heart... But you have to let them.

desertsong

Mike, I had lots of "psychological" and "physical" reasons to keep drinking. They kept me drinking way longer than I probably would have if I hadn't relied on them. We all have trauma ... we all have baggage ... I live mine every day. But in the end, they are an excuse to escape. I get it. I drank to escape. If I was numb and tuned out to the world, I was okay and didn't have to face my fears. You're learning that doesn't work. That's a good thing, but it is incredibly scary. We have fear whether we're drunk or sober. It is so much better to face the fear sober. At least when we face it sober, we can see a way out. Facing it drunk is just maintenance. We have to drink more and more to tune out reality. And you've discovered that is a road that doesn't lead to healing, but just more pain.

Trust the people who want to help you. Know that you can overcome. Every human being is fighting some sort of battle. You are not alone. We all cope in different ways and I wish I was someone who didn't use alcohol to cope, but that's who I am and that's who you are. But you are not beyond hope and healing. No one is. It's a choice and one you have to make.

Just breathe. Take the next right step. You can get there. It's been done by folks in WAY worse shape than you are in right now. Let them lead you and be your inspiration.

MikeM

That's true Dee. But based on these problems, quitting is so incredibly difficult.

And I'm a bit at a loss as to who to take advice from. I get advice on here. And I have a plan laid out that my doctor helped me with. The thing is, my doctor didn't seem all to concerned about me temporarily continuing to drink until the medication and treatment are kicking in. I suggested the medication that makes you sick when you drink myself, but it was not in their line of thinking.

So I have this forum, on which it is recommended to quit right away. Which is a good thing in many cases. And then there is my doctor, who is more concerned about my underlying issues and sees the alcoholism as a symptom that will go away.

That's where I'm conflicted. What do I do? Which advice do I follow?

And with all due respect, if I have to choose, I choose to go with the plan that has been carefully planned out with the help of my doctor.

I do intend to quit tomorrow. Yes, I know, another tomorrow. And maybe it won't last. But my mind is still set in that direction.

As I see it, if I follow the plan the doctor laid out, I might drink for a little while longer but will be cured in the end. If I mess with it, I might sabotage it.

That said, if I don't feel like drinking tomorrow, it will still be a new day 1. But with an asterisk. Referring to the above.

It's all I can do. I want to get rid of it. And I'm not taking any chances. My health can take a little more drinking. And in the long run it may be for the best. If I quit and have a breakdown because of the stress from it, there's no working with me. I'm a shell, staring in the distance on my hospital bed without much awareness. I've been there.

Can you imagine my dilemma? I don't know what to do.

MikeM

To ICanDoBetter and desertsong, developmental issues are much deeper and heavier than traumas. And also need to be handled with care because they are infused in your whole personality.

I appreciate your suggestions. I'm also being honest here. This is not something to mess with.

desertsong

I have been in your dilemma, Mike. Quit drinking NOW or see what happens if I continue to drink.

Continuing to drink led me into a quagmire of helplessness and despair. And the idea of NOT drinking led me to the same thing. So what did I have to lose? The end result was the same, but sobriety was a way better choice than continuing on the way I was.

Nobody said stopping drinking would be easy. It sucks. But the alternative is way worse.

A new day one is a good thing. I always found that if I could get just one day under my belt, the rest was easier.

You will always feel like drinking. That's who we are and what we do. But that feeling passes with every day we get sober. You know who you are and what you want. You know life is better sober. You just have to figure out what the payoff is to continuing to drink. There is a payoff. It's what keeps us stuck. My payoff was the escape from the stress in my life. But drinking didn't make it better - I only thought it did. When you get even a day or two sober, you see the lies for what they really are.

Hawkeye13

You were not honest with your doctor, so the plan
they gave you was based on faulty information.

It seems pretty clear you aren't done yet.
Being honest with your doctor might be a good first thing to do.

ICanDoBetter

I'm just suggesting that while you are being honest with us, you admitted to us earlier that you weren't totally forthright with your doctor. So yes the doc has laid out a plan based on partial information and it is a plan that will allow you to continue to drink. And I think what most here have suggested to you is rehab, which you said you are open to.

I'm not telling you to do anything against doctors advice. I'm suggesting you be totally honest with the doc and not hold anything back at all.

MikeM

The plan is solid. I know enough about psychiatric illnesses and treatments as well as myself to know that.

There's one thing that is bothering me a bit. This place seems to have gotten a bit harsh. Unwelcoming. Some of the responses are fairly direct.

I know I've done it. And now I know how it feels. I feel pushed. I feel like people are being too harsh in an attempt to help. But gradually I'm beginning to feel more and more uncomfortable looking at my threads since I know that there might be another harsh one. And I'm in far too vulnerable a place. As I would imagine many people are.

It's not comfortable. It doesn't feel like the caring and nurturing place this is supposed to be. I'm not pointing to anyone specifically, but the energy shifts quite a lot into something that makes me uncomfortable if I'm not doing well and post about it. It makes me want to leave instead of get help.

I'm used to direct and harsh. But not when I'm this vulnerable.

And often I write from a place of total honesty. If I'm correct about what I write is another question. But I am being honest more than you might think. And often it gets quite harshly shot down. And a lot of assumptions are made in the same harsh manner.

If something is accurate, I will agree. But sometimes it just isn't. And a debate ensues. I feel like I'm pushed down as the person who is clueless while the posters tower over me with their insights which are sometimes just not accurate. But they insist on it.

Look, I'm willing to stay honest. And post. But I'm not taking that harsh attitude anymore. That's a no for me and I will not allow myself to be treated that way.

I'm not talking about Dee of course. I'm not talking about many users. But some do do it and I'm not going to be subjected to that.

On the other hand, I have gotten some very kind and supportive messages through pm. Messages that are similar to (though more personal) how people used to respond here. And they lift me up. They give me hope. They make me see a bright future. They make me able to imagine a life without alcohol, as well as my other problems.

That's how I knew this place. Things have changed. And I don't like it.

ICanDoBetter

I'll make one last reply and leave it at this. I don't believe I'm being harsh - I'm attempting to be direct. You posed a question earlier today "how do I prevent myself from drinking in the meantime?" This is where the suggestion of rehab came in. You noted that giving your brother your wallet no longer works because you will pan handle. At the end of the day if you want to not drink and what you have tried doesn't work, the next step seems to be physically submitting yourself somewhere that you cannot access alcohol even if you find a way to get hold money. This would seem to be rehab.

This was my logic path. You do not have to agree. In simply providing my input to your question in an attempt to be supportive.

ScottFromWI

Nothing has change here Mike. And unfortunately I don't think anything has changed with you in relation to your approach to your problems. And only you can make that happen. Blaming the forum is simply another excuse.

MikeM

I wasn't talking about you ICanDoBetter.

And yes Scott, things did change. I am not even blaming the forum and you throw it out there. You used to be much milder and considerate.

I'll pm what Dee has to say about this and will accept whatever he says. Maybe I'm wrong. But this place feels much more uncomfortable than it used to be. In fact, it used to feel comfortable while now it doesn't.

Dee74

I answered your PM Mike.

I don't feel there's any need for mod action. If you feel any posts here break our rules please report them with the little red and white triangles.

You can also approach Anna Scott or Opivotal

See you my tomorrow.

D

Dyl71

I'll try to keep my advice short and to the point.

Less talk and much, much, much more action from you please. 😉👍

Do NOT lie to your doctors, and throw away all your excuses and justifications/rationalizations for you behaviour and GET. YOURSELF. INTO. REHAB.NOW.

I'm rooting for you.

P.S. There's no doubt Eminem is a talented guy- I played the crap out of his stuff for years - but I had to give it a break. It gets depressing after a while.

Delizadee

You're not done drinking. I know as well as you do that I'm not and you're not. There is NO excuse in the world no matter what you've been through to continue to keep it as an option. You're kidding yourself in a very dangerous way by letting yourself believe that drinking will go away once you figure out the root of your issues.

Recovery FROM life TO life is a LIFELONG process. Every body has their issues.
You don't want to deal with them.
Drinking has to stop before you can heal the mental emotional stuff.
You know that. Drinking just puts a pause on our mental growth and a deficit in our spiritual wellbeing.

You really need to get your priorities straight.

This is the pot calling the pot black by the way.

I won't touch counselling until I stop touching alcohol. I won't get anywhere.