Soliciting Practical Suggestions
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Hi Pouncer.
I've read your other recent thread as well as this one.
You're smart to start out by taking things in, seeking change, a little bit at a time. It shows you have self-awareness and perspective. None of us are built to take care of everything all at once, and most of us are averse to making wholesale changes, regardless of the stakes that we imagine are involved.
Life is hard. It's also unfair. In the States, we are all ostensibly equal under the law, but reality tells a different story. Each of us is presented with obstacles and challenges in life and, though we all struggle, they aren't distributed equally. We learn how to manage life, to develop coping skills, through our struggles. (And, when all goes as well as can be expected, we discover purpose or meaning through our suffering.) When chance, circumstance or biology mitigates against this, we need to do something different. In the event, this is not always simple or obvious, and we sometimes need additional help to see our way through. Reaching out here is a good start.
You did a great job sublimating your childhood suffering through political and social activism. Yet this still leaves you feeling empty, hollow, looking for an escape. I imagine that you've done your research, and are aware that, until relatively recently, the diagnosis of Asperger's was almost exclusively rendered for children. More recent clinical experience and research has reframed Asperger's as part of ASD -- Autistic Spectrum Syndrome. Asperger's is now considered to be on a continuum of autistic disorders, falling on the milder end of the scale, and is used for both children and adults. But people who carry a diagnosis of Asperger's are also known to possess certain strengths, above-average intelligence often being one among many.
Following a more or less strict routine is probably important for you, and it's therefore likely that it's an uphill battle for you to make what appear to be minor changes. That's fine. Every battle, by definition, is uphill, and the struggle itself often makes a difference. You don't need to put pressure on yourself to get things done, to make changes, based on an internal ultimatum. This kind of pressure often leads to an acute sense of failure, draining us of self-esteem and motivation. I see echoes of this in your suggestions of personal incompetence and the intrusion of a false self. We are all only as true as we are true to ourselves.
Face-to-face help also does not need to be viewed as a requirement that meets someone else's artificial schedule. Your resistance to it is understandable, and perhaps the best you can do is to keep an open mind about this as you move along, without necessarily having to shut the door on it completely, or make a final decision about it at all. You know it's always available, and no one will break down your door to drag you to a meeting, a therapy session, or anything else that will make you uncomfortable. Again, reaching out here is a big step.
Instead of being a time to despair, try making this a time to be gentle with yourself. In our world, meaning here on SR, small steps are big steps and often lead to something meaningful, even cherished. As you know, drinking won't help, no matter how much you love those two hours of drunkenness. The only thing it seems to do is confirm your self-appraisal as a failure, and give you more excuses to allow your neglected challenges to determine who you are. At least, and if nothing else, the circle is complete.
You know inside that you are much more than what the world sees, than what other people might imagine you are. You only need to satisfy your own desire to be who and what you can be. This is a start.
I've read your other recent thread as well as this one.
You're smart to start out by taking things in, seeking change, a little bit at a time. It shows you have self-awareness and perspective. None of us are built to take care of everything all at once, and most of us are averse to making wholesale changes, regardless of the stakes that we imagine are involved.
Life is hard. It's also unfair. In the States, we are all ostensibly equal under the law, but reality tells a different story. Each of us is presented with obstacles and challenges in life and, though we all struggle, they aren't distributed equally. We learn how to manage life, to develop coping skills, through our struggles. (And, when all goes as well as can be expected, we discover purpose or meaning through our suffering.) When chance, circumstance or biology mitigates against this, we need to do something different. In the event, this is not always simple or obvious, and we sometimes need additional help to see our way through. Reaching out here is a good start.
You did a great job sublimating your childhood suffering through political and social activism. Yet this still leaves you feeling empty, hollow, looking for an escape. I imagine that you've done your research, and are aware that, until relatively recently, the diagnosis of Asperger's was almost exclusively rendered for children. More recent clinical experience and research has reframed Asperger's as part of ASD -- Autistic Spectrum Syndrome. Asperger's is now considered to be on a continuum of autistic disorders, falling on the milder end of the scale, and is used for both children and adults. But people who carry a diagnosis of Asperger's are also known to possess certain strengths, above-average intelligence often being one among many.
Following a more or less strict routine is probably important for you, and it's therefore likely that it's an uphill battle for you to make what appear to be minor changes. That's fine. Every battle, by definition, is uphill, and the struggle itself often makes a difference. You don't need to put pressure on yourself to get things done, to make changes, based on an internal ultimatum. This kind of pressure often leads to an acute sense of failure, draining us of self-esteem and motivation. I see echoes of this in your suggestions of personal incompetence and the intrusion of a false self. We are all only as true as we are true to ourselves.
Face-to-face help also does not need to be viewed as a requirement that meets someone else's artificial schedule. Your resistance to it is understandable, and perhaps the best you can do is to keep an open mind about this as you move along, without necessarily having to shut the door on it completely, or make a final decision about it at all. You know it's always available, and no one will break down your door to drag you to a meeting, a therapy session, or anything else that will make you uncomfortable. Again, reaching out here is a big step.
Instead of being a time to despair, try making this a time to be gentle with yourself. In our world, meaning here on SR, small steps are big steps and often lead to something meaningful, even cherished. As you know, drinking won't help, no matter how much you love those two hours of drunkenness. The only thing it seems to do is confirm your self-appraisal as a failure, and give you more excuses to allow your neglected challenges to determine who you are. At least, and if nothing else, the circle is complete.
You know inside that you are much more than what the world sees, than what other people might imagine you are. You only need to satisfy your own desire to be who and what you can be. This is a start.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,228
Originally Posted by Time2Rise 
IMO, you need to first find out why you feel sobriety will be "terrifying"? IMO, as long as you're afraid of a sober life, you're going to find sobreity uncomfortable.
What exactly is so terrifying about being sober? I really feel this fear issue is something you need to confront head-on, right now.
I believe therapy with a qualified addiction psychologist is a route you should strongly consider.
What exactly is so terrifying about being sober? I really feel this fear issue is something you need to confront head-on, right now.
I believe therapy with a qualified addiction psychologist is a route you should strongly consider.
I also want to mention that I have Asperger's and it one of the things I want to honor and appreciate about myself. I have a tremendously difficult time talking to people. Full stop.
The SR forums have been the most healthy place where I can talk about what is bothering me without the massive anxiety of traditional talk therapy. My way would not be best for every person, but I believe it is a good start for me. Standing up for myself in this manner was really terrifying and difficult to do just now. No disrespect, and I thank you for your advice and kind words.
I might actually venture out of the house and take my kids to Olvera Street tomorrow after their classes and (eeks!) in the middle of traffic. I have a lot of anxiety about whether or not we will have a good time and if the trip will be wasted. I am going to do it anyway. It is one of my happy places; they love it, too.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,228
You beat me to it! Thank you, End Game, for understanding about FKA Asperger's and being compassionate and respectful about my need to be comfortable and happy. (I use Asperger's as a term because not a lot of people understand what HFA is, or really what autism is. We are perfectly happy being this way. I don't believe it is a disease as in that it needs to be cured, but rather better understood).
I don't want recovery to be a sad thing. I want it to be a happy, life-long experience.
You had some sage advice. Thank you for taking the time to respond. It was a beautiful response.
I don't want recovery to be a sad thing. I want it to be a happy, life-long experience.
You had some sage advice. Thank you for taking the time to respond. It was a beautiful response.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 1,021
Originally Posted by Pouncer
The thing is, it is not sobriety that is terrifying. It is dealing with the issues that I have been trying to ignore.
I also want to mention that I have Asperger's and it one of the things I want to honor and appreciate about myself. I have a tremendously difficult time talking to people. Full stop.
The SR forums have been the most healthy place where I can talk about what is bothering me without the massive anxiety of traditional talk therapy. My way would not be best for every person, but I believe it is a good start for me. Standing up for myself in this manner was really terrifying and difficult to do just now. No disrespect, and I thank you for your advice and kind words.
I might actually venture out of the house and take my kids to Olvera Street tomorrow after their classes and (eeks!) in the middle of traffic. I have a lot of anxiety about whether or not we will have a good time and if the trip will be wasted. I am going to do it anyway. It is one of my happy places; they love it, too.
I also want to mention that I have Asperger's and it one of the things I want to honor and appreciate about myself. I have a tremendously difficult time talking to people. Full stop.
The SR forums have been the most healthy place where I can talk about what is bothering me without the massive anxiety of traditional talk therapy. My way would not be best for every person, but I believe it is a good start for me. Standing up for myself in this manner was really terrifying and difficult to do just now. No disrespect, and I thank you for your advice and kind words.
I might actually venture out of the house and take my kids to Olvera Street tomorrow after their classes and (eeks!) in the middle of traffic. I have a lot of anxiety about whether or not we will have a good time and if the trip will be wasted. I am going to do it anyway. It is one of my happy places; they love it, too.
The important thing is to stay sober, so do what works for you, and if the discussions here are helping, so much the better.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 561
Originally Posted by Pouncer
I just realized what my problem is. I do not live authentically or practice any level of self-care. I learned at a very young age, with my stressed-out, broke parents that my needs were an inconvenience. I learned that an acceptable way to channel that massive anxiety about my unstable upbringing was to take on social justice issues. We were very religious and I was lauded as a good Christian, a good person for doing it. It gave me self-esteem in areas that my parents did not. (We lived in a cult-like environment in Dallas, Texas). It was a way for me to also be accepted and my know-it-all tendencies were easily masked under the pretense of helping others. I still do it -- all the time. I feel totally and utterly hollow. I am grateful for discovering this crucial trigger and personality trait about myself.
You mentioned that you may not prefer talk therapy. Individual sessions with a therapist for a few years were pivotal in me uncovering the core issue for me: my dysfunctional childhood family.
May I recommend :
1. Talking with a therapist, if or when you are ready.
2. Reading the book Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. This book changed my life. I was blind before I read this.
Also you mentioned you approach things logically. With much respect I want to humbly offer some advice from experience. I was sober 1.5 years without a recovery plan and I spent too much.of my time becoming an expert on addiction (Google "intellectualization" as a defense mechanism) instead of creating a new life. I relapsed. ThE next time I took Dee's advice and created a recovery plan and I've started building a new life in recovery. Just a kind warning that reading can become an addiction of avoidance if done every day for hours or if too much energy is put into it.
Wishing you the best!!
💓💓SF
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,228
I have a history with that book, actually. My toxic mother-in-law made me read it. Force-fed -- shoveled, actually -- down my throat when I was trying to make amends with my parents. My mother-in-law was very possessive of me and did not want me to get close to my parents, she liked having my full attention. I believe she behaves in a way that probably describes someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I could do no wrong in her eyes. Where is she now? She stopped talking to me, my husband and my her grandchildren all because I had the audacity to tell her that I would not interfere anymore with my father-in-law, whom she divorced and force him to meet with her. She sends guilt-gifts to my kids on Christmas and on their birthdays.
I have a hard time reading that book, mostly because of what I read about the author. She was a terrible, abusive parent to her own daughter. Oh, never mind. I am thinking of Alice Miller, not Susan Forward. My mother-in-law gave me every single one of her books. In any case, that book is kind of tainted for me. It is a shame.
I don't remember much about it. I read a lot. I am sure it has a lot of wisdom in it. The one thing my psychiatrist did was to get me on a PTSD workbook. It helped immensely. It was a really dark time, but I got through it.
I am amazed by how perceptive you are. Yes, I am a rabbit-holer. It is my other addiction. I can't get enough of it and I do not know when to stop.
I have an old plan that I wrote a year ago. It was not a 100-percent successful plan, but I will review it when I feel mentally strong enough. The book I am reading now is a plan in itself. I am rereading the chapters that I went through and going through my assignment -- asking tough questions. The only way I am going to succeed is to do this in bite-sized pieces. I am going to have to seriously reconsider how I have an issue with my schedule, change and safe places. This time, I am not going to revolt and tell myself, "I should," or "I need to, do X, Y, Z, or I am not normal." I have to respect the quiet part of myself that likes things the way they are, on my road to change.
I have a hard time reading that book, mostly because of what I read about the author. She was a terrible, abusive parent to her own daughter. Oh, never mind. I am thinking of Alice Miller, not Susan Forward. My mother-in-law gave me every single one of her books. In any case, that book is kind of tainted for me. It is a shame.
I don't remember much about it. I read a lot. I am sure it has a lot of wisdom in it. The one thing my psychiatrist did was to get me on a PTSD workbook. It helped immensely. It was a really dark time, but I got through it.
I am amazed by how perceptive you are. Yes, I am a rabbit-holer. It is my other addiction. I can't get enough of it and I do not know when to stop.
I have an old plan that I wrote a year ago. It was not a 100-percent successful plan, but I will review it when I feel mentally strong enough. The book I am reading now is a plan in itself. I am rereading the chapters that I went through and going through my assignment -- asking tough questions. The only way I am going to succeed is to do this in bite-sized pieces. I am going to have to seriously reconsider how I have an issue with my schedule, change and safe places. This time, I am not going to revolt and tell myself, "I should," or "I need to, do X, Y, Z, or I am not normal." I have to respect the quiet part of myself that likes things the way they are, on my road to change.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Originally Posted by Pouncer
I just realized what my problem is. I do not live authentically or practice any level of self-care. I learned at a very young age, with my stressed-out, broke parents that my needs were an inconvenience. I learned that an acceptable way to channel that massive anxiety about my unstable upbringing was to take on social justice issues. We were very religious and I was lauded as a good Christian, a good person for doing it. It gave me self-esteem in areas that my parents did not. (We lived in a cult-like environment in Dallas, Texas). It was a way for me to also be accepted and my know-it-all tendencies were easily masked under the pretense of helping others. I still do it -- all the time. I feel totally and utterly hollow. I am grateful for discovering this crucial trigger and personality trait about myself.
I believe that many people who are 'high level' alcoholics suffer from this disparity between their 'outsides' and their 'insides' , and that this is where a lot of the anxiety and depression comes from. By hiding our true selves away from everyone (including our nearest and dearest) we really do isolate ourselves. I brought so many deep dark secrets with me to recovery - things that inside me grew out of proportion to what they were - as much as I didn't want to share them, or even start breaking down that outside 'image' (my protective shell), doing so brought a lot of relief. Maybe you could try doing things to help others that is less public, and that you know is not being done for recognition and people-pleasing? I bet there are some of your causes that are actually closer to your heart than it might feel right now. No need to chuck the baby out with the bathwater (I know how you love a good cliche!!
).And you know - there are many, many people in the world who are doing the same thing as you have been (and thank goodness, as a lot of good comes out of it). Its just that we have to be more careful about that kind of stuff, because we tend to drink on it. Like the anger and resentments - most people have 'justified resentments' - and they're unpleasant for anyone, it's just that for alcoholics and addicts that they become a dubious luxury as they can lead to relapse, so we could do with working harder on not forming them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,228
Here's a great practical suggestion: do nice things for yourself.
I was getting really depressed reading the news about Trump and the Nevada caucus. (Yes, Trump, again. I can't help it. He is a major trigger). I decided to watch something funny on Netflix instead of the (safe) normal documentary. I started watching Apatow's series, "Love." I am so glad I gave myself a chance to experience something new and to be happy. The show is so much like me. The person I was 7 years ago, when I started recovery. She looks like me, talks like me. Same age that I was, same attitude.
I get 'fun' after I secret drink, then everyone around me seems unreasonable. It is just some harmless fun, don't you like having fun? I act just like the character, Mickey, when I drink: jumping off of roofs into a pool shouting, "We're not dead yet, motherf*****s!" This show deals with some really serious stuff that I think we here can all relate to.
I was getting really depressed reading the news about Trump and the Nevada caucus. (Yes, Trump, again. I can't help it. He is a major trigger). I decided to watch something funny on Netflix instead of the (safe) normal documentary. I started watching Apatow's series, "Love." I am so glad I gave myself a chance to experience something new and to be happy. The show is so much like me. The person I was 7 years ago, when I started recovery. She looks like me, talks like me. Same age that I was, same attitude.
I get 'fun' after I secret drink, then everyone around me seems unreasonable. It is just some harmless fun, don't you like having fun? I act just like the character, Mickey, when I drink: jumping off of roofs into a pool shouting, "We're not dead yet, motherf*****s!" This show deals with some really serious stuff that I think we here can all relate to.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
hey Pouncer,
about the Trump-thing:
he "triggers" something in me, too. lots of things, actually, none of them positive.
so what?
as far as what that makes me do? NOTHING.
i've had sober years to look at triggers, and it's not about "them" but about me. Trump-the-Trigger isn't about Trump but about something in me that responds to....xyz.
Trump has no power, absolutely no power, over whether you drink or not. none.
i'm curious about your avatar...it "triggers" something in me and i'm not sure what...feel like telling what it's about/ looks like a painting of a person drawing a circle on glass between her and us/the world?
about the Trump-thing:
he "triggers" something in me, too. lots of things, actually, none of them positive.
so what?
as far as what that makes me do? NOTHING.
i've had sober years to look at triggers, and it's not about "them" but about me. Trump-the-Trigger isn't about Trump but about something in me that responds to....xyz.
Trump has no power, absolutely no power, over whether you drink or not. none.
i'm curious about your avatar...it "triggers" something in me and i'm not sure what...feel like telling what it's about/ looks like a painting of a person drawing a circle on glass between her and us/the world?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 770
Hi Pouncer,
I know a lot of things in life are difficult for you. Asperger's can really make life difficult.
But, even you can be happy, in your own way. The way to get there is to get sober.
I know you like logic. Logically, what is the best choice for you? Drinking or not drinking? This question isn't rhetorical.
I know a lot of things in life are difficult for you. Asperger's can really make life difficult.
But, even you can be happy, in your own way. The way to get there is to get sober.
I know you like logic. Logically, what is the best choice for you? Drinking or not drinking? This question isn't rhetorical.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 709
Pouncer, I was terrified of sobriety, too. I just could not imagine a life without my nightly wine routine. But so far, it hasn't been scary at all. In fact, the opposite! (I've also lost 15 lbs so that always helps.)The 6-8pm time is the most difficult for me, especially in the first couple months. Like everyone said, you have to develop new habits. But at the beginning, do anything to distract yourself when you typically get cravings. Reading is always good, as is exercise, guided meditation, anything that you enjoy doing.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,228
I think there was some misunderstanding about my last post. I, in no way, feel that the character I spoke with was had a desirable, glamorous life. I was saying that I could relate to the character, who goes down the same road, knowing, but unknowing. I find it healthy to talk about it rather, than stifle it. I can't do what I have been doing for years, not sticking up for myself, turning everything into a disaster, because those unhealthy habits are going to start me down the path of drinking.
I don't believe this is a time to get 'tough' with me. Yes, having Asperger's makes life difficult. It feels marginalizing to be misunderstood, but it doesn't mean I am broken.
I don't believe this is a time to get 'tough' with me. Yes, having Asperger's makes life difficult. It feels marginalizing to be misunderstood, but it doesn't mean I am broken.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 770
Originally Posted by Pouncer
I think there was some misunderstanding about my last post. I, in no way, feel that the character I spoke with was had a desirable, glamorous life. I was saying that I could relate to the character, who goes down the same road, knowing, but unknowing. I find it healthy to talk about it rather, than stifle it. I can't do what I have been doing for years, not sticking up for myself, turning everything into a disaster, because those unhealthy habits are going to start me down the path of drinking.
I don't believe this is a time to get 'tough' with me. Yes, having Asperger's makes life difficult. It feels marginalizing to be misunderstood, but it doesn't mean I am broken.
I don't believe this is a time to get 'tough' with me. Yes, having Asperger's makes life difficult. It feels marginalizing to be misunderstood, but it doesn't mean I am broken.
What I'm wondering though is, have you made any appointments? Like with the nice psychiatrist your son sees? Or any other? You do need to take action if you want to solve this alcohol problem.
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