My fight with Tianeptine addiction.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
My fight with Tianeptine addiction.
Hello Sober recovery, my name is Pat. I would first like to start out by thanking whoever is taking the time to read this. I came across this website while doing research on ways to get off of this horrible drug. Seeing other people that are addicted to this gave me hope so now I'm posting my story.
About two years ago I went to my doctor because I felt my depression worsening and asked to be put on an antidepressant. My doctor decided to put me on citalopram 20 mg which I stayed on for about 3 months. After going back to the doctors and telling him that I didn't think it worked he decided to put me on double the dose, now I was taking 40 mgs. A month and a half later I had decided enough was enough, if my doctor wasn't going to listen to my requests to try something different, I'd have to do my own research.
I found out about Tianeptine accidentally when a buddy of mine had mistakenly given me and capsule that was in a Ziploc bag full of other nootropics. The dosage was 100 mg and I felt amazing, almost like an Oxy high (or so I've heard). Anyways Immediately I fell in love, I was no longer depressed, I had energy, and I physically felt happy it seemed almost too good to be true and it was. I found out the hard way waking up one morning in full-blown opiate withdrawal. My whole body aches I was sweating but freezing my ankles were swollen and I felt downright horrible. Looking back now my problem was I never researched this chemical until I was already addicted.
Tianeptine or (Stablon) as it is known in Russia, is an anti depressant that is meant to take in doses of 12.5 mg 3 x a day. Interestingly enough when taken in recreational doses as I was taking it in, it is an opiate agonist. When I realized I had a problem I was taking 100 mg 7-8 a day and it was about to get worse, (a lot worse). When I went to back to the doctor and confessed, it was recommended I try to taper or go to a suboxone clinic.
Long story short tapering was hell and I ended up going on zubsolv (my insurance wouldn't cover suboxone). I stayed on zubsolv for a few weeks dealing with a horrible depression that was most definitely me withdrawing from the anti-tricylic (antidepressant) chemical in the Tianeptine, though most of the physical symptoms were gone. . BetweenThe having to go to the clinic every week and paying 40 bucks a visit for that plus the expensive prescription for the zubsolv I decided to get back on Tianeptine and taper down. I have read the stories of how hard it is to withdraw from subs.
When I started taking the Tianeptine again, I was horrified to find out how much of it I needed to actually feel normal because I had become addicted to zubsolv. I was taken 500 mgs about 8-10 times a day.
I have taken Kratom in between this addicting and I don't think it helps with the part that is so hard, the mental part. Nevertheless I have some on hand and may use when I get off completely. I made it four days cold turkey before but the mental part was just too much for me. I have severe depression so withdrawing from massive amounts of Tianeptine makes my emotions unbareable. Anyways here's my plan... It's needs help.
Right now I'm taking 6x70 mg scoops every 2-3 hours. I plan on trying to go down 1 white scoop from each dose per week. So for example next week I'll take five scoops every 2-3 hours.
My new Dr has me on Zoloft 100 mgs and says that I need to get off of the Tianeptine before she can prescribe me something stronger for depression.
I have Kratom, immodium, 26 zubsolv pills, 100 mg gabbapentin about 100 of them...here is where I need help.
I live alone, and I am not close with anyone in my family (long story). I have two people that I would consider my friends but only hang out with them about a handful of times a month because they both have their own families. I find my depression to be uncontrollable when withdrawing or weaning too fast.
I need all the advice, support, tapering ideas, or even ways to make withdrawls as painless as possible. Thank you for reading and I hope to get some feedback
About two years ago I went to my doctor because I felt my depression worsening and asked to be put on an antidepressant. My doctor decided to put me on citalopram 20 mg which I stayed on for about 3 months. After going back to the doctors and telling him that I didn't think it worked he decided to put me on double the dose, now I was taking 40 mgs. A month and a half later I had decided enough was enough, if my doctor wasn't going to listen to my requests to try something different, I'd have to do my own research.
I found out about Tianeptine accidentally when a buddy of mine had mistakenly given me and capsule that was in a Ziploc bag full of other nootropics. The dosage was 100 mg and I felt amazing, almost like an Oxy high (or so I've heard). Anyways Immediately I fell in love, I was no longer depressed, I had energy, and I physically felt happy it seemed almost too good to be true and it was. I found out the hard way waking up one morning in full-blown opiate withdrawal. My whole body aches I was sweating but freezing my ankles were swollen and I felt downright horrible. Looking back now my problem was I never researched this chemical until I was already addicted.
Tianeptine or (Stablon) as it is known in Russia, is an anti depressant that is meant to take in doses of 12.5 mg 3 x a day. Interestingly enough when taken in recreational doses as I was taking it in, it is an opiate agonist. When I realized I had a problem I was taking 100 mg 7-8 a day and it was about to get worse, (a lot worse). When I went to back to the doctor and confessed, it was recommended I try to taper or go to a suboxone clinic.
Long story short tapering was hell and I ended up going on zubsolv (my insurance wouldn't cover suboxone). I stayed on zubsolv for a few weeks dealing with a horrible depression that was most definitely me withdrawing from the anti-tricylic (antidepressant) chemical in the Tianeptine, though most of the physical symptoms were gone. . BetweenThe having to go to the clinic every week and paying 40 bucks a visit for that plus the expensive prescription for the zubsolv I decided to get back on Tianeptine and taper down. I have read the stories of how hard it is to withdraw from subs.
When I started taking the Tianeptine again, I was horrified to find out how much of it I needed to actually feel normal because I had become addicted to zubsolv. I was taken 500 mgs about 8-10 times a day.
I have taken Kratom in between this addicting and I don't think it helps with the part that is so hard, the mental part. Nevertheless I have some on hand and may use when I get off completely. I made it four days cold turkey before but the mental part was just too much for me. I have severe depression so withdrawing from massive amounts of Tianeptine makes my emotions unbareable. Anyways here's my plan... It's needs help.
Right now I'm taking 6x70 mg scoops every 2-3 hours. I plan on trying to go down 1 white scoop from each dose per week. So for example next week I'll take five scoops every 2-3 hours.
My new Dr has me on Zoloft 100 mgs and says that I need to get off of the Tianeptine before she can prescribe me something stronger for depression.
I have Kratom, immodium, 26 zubsolv pills, 100 mg gabbapentin about 100 of them...here is where I need help.
I live alone, and I am not close with anyone in my family (long story). I have two people that I would consider my friends but only hang out with them about a handful of times a month because they both have their own families. I find my depression to be uncontrollable when withdrawing or weaning too fast.
I need all the advice, support, tapering ideas, or even ways to make withdrawls as painless as possible. Thank you for reading and I hope to get some feedback
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
Hi Pat - Welcome!
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
Welcome to the Forum Pat!! 
There's no easy way to avoid withdrawals, the body will withdrawal from anything that it has had over a period of time when suddenly it can't have what it has always had.
Experimenting though I don't think is the right way to go, personally I've never even heard of some of these substances, and so to say how they would react in different doses, given your physical make up, and then throw into the equation "severe" depression on top of all that . . . even if we could give medical advice, where would someone even begin without being a medical professional.
I think you need some proper medical advice, be honest with a Dr about what you've been taking, and get some real advice on the situation, addiction can be life or death, so get the help that is needed.
You'll find loads of support here though on SR to keep you on track whatever the way forward is in your Sobriety!!
There's no easy way to avoid withdrawals, the body will withdrawal from anything that it has had over a period of time when suddenly it can't have what it has always had.
Experimenting though I don't think is the right way to go, personally I've never even heard of some of these substances, and so to say how they would react in different doses, given your physical make up, and then throw into the equation "severe" depression on top of all that . . . even if we could give medical advice, where would someone even begin without being a medical professional.
I think you need some proper medical advice, be honest with a Dr about what you've been taking, and get some real advice on the situation, addiction can be life or death, so get the help that is needed.
You'll find loads of support here though on SR to keep you on track whatever the way forward is in your Sobriety!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Dee74 
Hi Pat - Welcome!
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Thank you for this response my friend.
I did manage to go cold turkey once, I made it about 3 and a half days. The first two I heavily dosed Dxm which made it bareable. The third day I had emotional bouts of sadness.... I was actually hanging out with a girl for the first time and I couldn't stop crying and so I basically opened up to her. She understood and tried to be there but I was just too "sad" to do anything. I wanted to rip my hair out. After that I started using again eventually going on zubsolv which didn't do **** for me.... I was an emotional cry baby all the time... So I got back on only I had to use higher doses... My friend I think you misunderstood. I have to take about 500-750 mg a dose just to feel (normal). I'm dosing every 2-3 hours it's horrible and I'm spending about 175 a week. You mentioned Sulphate as lasting longer? How much longer? Maybe I could switch to that. I order mine from a site called new mind. I'm sorry if that's against the rules. I really need you guy's help. I'm wondering because Tianeptine is an opiod and tricyclic anti-depressant.... Could my dr switch me to an anti depressant in the same family so it's easier for me to deal? It's not the physical as much as the mental sadness.... I can't deal with that for weeks on end...
I did manage to go cold turkey once, I made it about 3 and a half days. The first two I heavily dosed Dxm which made it bareable. The third day I had emotional bouts of sadness.... I was actually hanging out with a girl for the first time and I couldn't stop crying and so I basically opened up to her. She understood and tried to be there but I was just too "sad" to do anything. I wanted to rip my hair out. After that I started using again eventually going on zubsolv which didn't do **** for me.... I was an emotional cry baby all the time... So I got back on only I had to use higher doses... My friend I think you misunderstood. I have to take about 500-750 mg a dose just to feel (normal). I'm dosing every 2-3 hours it's horrible and I'm spending about 175 a week. You mentioned Sulphate as lasting longer? How much longer? Maybe I could switch to that. I order mine from a site called new mind. I'm sorry if that's against the rules. I really need you guy's help. I'm wondering because Tianeptine is an opiod and tricyclic anti-depressant.... Could my dr switch me to an anti depressant in the same family so it's easier for me to deal? It's not the physical as much as the mental sadness.... I can't deal with that for weeks on end...
Last edited by Dee74; 02-25-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: My Town
Posts: 11
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to get to that amount you are taking?
I'm just curious as to whether or not you were taking this for the buzz or to help with your depression.
I'm assuming then, that you started with 100 and went up from there rather than cutting back to the normal dose after the first time. (?)
I understand how this chemical can be abused for people that are depressed.
There's NOTHING in the WORLD that can compare with the feeling of feeling "normal".
In my case, for the 1st time EVER (except for my 18 years of drinking) as nothing the Drs. ever prescribed helped.
Have you discussed with your friend that gave you the initial 100 mg capsule, how he stopped taking this if he even has?
Maybe though, if he had a grab-bag of Nootropics, his playing Russion Roulette saved him from grabbing only the Tia.
Also, seeing as how you have a Dr. that knows what you are dealing with, is he trying to help in any way?
I realize that is a new subject to many US Drs. at this time but I have a feeling it won't be for long.
Maybe if he doesn't know how to help, he may be able to refer you to one that does.(?)
Maybe someone else knows the answer but as far as I can tell, I'm not even sure there ARE other SSRE's on the market.(?)
Also, MY experience with the Sulfate wasn't any help.
It supposedly takes longer to kick in and lasts longer but it had not effect on me and it's quite expensive compared to the sodium.
My thoughts on the sulphate would be the longer it lasts in the body, the harder it would be to stop taking but I'm not positive.
Good Luck!!!
I'm just curious as to whether or not you were taking this for the buzz or to help with your depression.
I'm assuming then, that you started with 100 and went up from there rather than cutting back to the normal dose after the first time. (?)
I understand how this chemical can be abused for people that are depressed.
There's NOTHING in the WORLD that can compare with the feeling of feeling "normal".
In my case, for the 1st time EVER (except for my 18 years of drinking) as nothing the Drs. ever prescribed helped.
Have you discussed with your friend that gave you the initial 100 mg capsule, how he stopped taking this if he even has?
Maybe though, if he had a grab-bag of Nootropics, his playing Russion Roulette saved him from grabbing only the Tia.
Also, seeing as how you have a Dr. that knows what you are dealing with, is he trying to help in any way?
I realize that is a new subject to many US Drs. at this time but I have a feeling it won't be for long.
Maybe if he doesn't know how to help, he may be able to refer you to one that does.(?)
Maybe someone else knows the answer but as far as I can tell, I'm not even sure there ARE other SSRE's on the market.(?)
Also, MY experience with the Sulfate wasn't any help.
It supposedly takes longer to kick in and lasts longer but it had not effect on me and it's quite expensive compared to the sodium.
My thoughts on the sulphate would be the longer it lasts in the body, the harder it would be to stop taking but I'm not positive.
Good Luck!!!
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,491
Please respect our rule:
Do not ask for or give any kind of medical advice.
I'm sorry for your situation and I really hope that you talk to your dr, or if he is not listening, try another dr.
Do not ask for or give any kind of medical advice.
I'm sorry for your situation and I really hope that you talk to your dr, or if he is not listening, try another dr.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 7
So all of my replies, which were well received, were removed? No one took the time to reach out to me via email or PM to ask for removal of part or all of a post. No suggestions made, no attempt at real remediation, just straight 86 all my content. I guess this site is not for me. Thank you Lucky23irish for sharing your story, and I hoped my words helped a little, good night and good luck.
<edit> So I did receive a PM explaining why they were deleted. But that's too little too late, because a quick suggestive PM outlining which parts of my posts were unacceptable would have allowed me to make quick edits and leave the rest for the benefit of the OP .I'd rather not contribute to a system like this. Thank you for those that you do help. </edit>
<edit> So I did receive a PM explaining why they were deleted. But that's too little too late, because a quick suggestive PM outlining which parts of my posts were unacceptable would have allowed me to make quick edits and leave the rest for the benefit of the OP .I'd rather not contribute to a system like this. Thank you for those that you do help. </edit>
Last edited by mp3some; 02-26-2016 at 05:28 AM. Reason: Received a PM
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Help guys!
Hey guys, sorry it's been a bit since I've been on. This last week has been hell for me with the weaning down. I'm so sick of how I feel every two hours. So far I've managed to cut my doses down to 3 scoops every 2 hours for a total of 250 mg every two hours.... I know it's insanely high, but I was at 8 before so the fact I've lowered 5 scoops per dose gives me slight hope. The place I normally order from just went up in price, about $55 dollars. I went to the dr about a month ago. She switched my citalopram 80 mg to Zoloft 100 mg (same family). She also recommended that I go see a psychiatrist, and gave me a number. I called them and explained that I need a psychiatrist that specializes in opiate detox to help me by prescribing something to help me get through this...
Originally Posted by Dee74
Hi Pat - Welcome!
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Hey guys, sorry it's been a bit since I've been on. This last week has been hell for me with the weaning down. I'm so sick of how I feel every two hours. So far I've managed to cut my doses down to 3 scoops every 2 hours for a total of 250 mg every two hours.... I know it's insanely high, but I was at 8 before so the fact I've lowered 5 scoops per dose gives me slight hope. The place I normally order from just went up in price, about $55 dollars. I went to the dr about a month ago. She switched my citalopram 80 mg to Zoloft 100 mg (same family). She also recommended that I go see a psychiatrist, and gave me a number. I called them and explained that I need a psychiatrist that specializes in opiate detox to help me by prescribing something to help me get through this... I need to see a psychiatrist right? The first place I called said they don't have des that could prescribe a two week script of something. God I'm nervous. I have managed to wean significantly but I'm still at such a unhealthy dose. I want to jump off but I need something to make the pain bearable.i live alone which makes it almost impossible. I will ball my eyes out for no reason and deal with a painful horrible sadness. I'd love to be around people. I'd go to rehab but I'm already 5 grand in debt.... Someone help with advice
I can't take time off from work
Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
it's actually against our rules to give you any kind of medical advice (like a treatment plan) - but if people have first hand experience to share I'm sure they'll chime in.
You'll find a lot of support
Hey guys, sorry it's been a bit since I've been on. This last week has been hell for me with the weaning down. I'm so sick of how I feel every two hours. So far I've managed to cut my doses down to 3 scoops every 2 hours for a total of 250 mg every two hours.... I know it's insanely high, but I was at 8 before so the fact I've lowered 5 scoops per dose gives me slight hope. The place I normally order from just went up in price, about $55 dollars. I went to the dr about a month ago. She switched my citalopram 80 mg to Zoloft 100 mg (same family). She also recommended that I go see a psychiatrist, and gave me a number. I called them and explained that I need a psychiatrist that specializes in opiate detox to help me by prescribing something to help me get through this... I need to see a psychiatrist right? The first place I called said they don't have des that could prescribe a two week script of something. God I'm nervous. I have managed to wean significantly but I'm still at such a unhealthy dose. I want to jump off but I need something to make the pain bearable.i live alone which makes it almost impossible. I will ball my eyes out for no reason and deal with a painful horrible sadness. I'd love to be around people. I'd go to rehab but I'm already 5 grand in debt.... Someone help with advice
I can't take time off from work Personally I think you'd do better working with a doctor than self medicating with other stuff trying to get off.
Did your Dr give you no advice at all?
D
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 9
Response
The problem is the kid I got them from is prescribed like 7 different medications. Also I'm not sure he was taking as much as I was. It took me about a year and a half to get to that dose. Of course initially I used it and felt a great buzz that eliminated my withdrawl. I started taking it every day and since it has such a short half life I'm constantly dosing or I'm in withdrawls.... I've managed to taper... I'm still very high but atleast now I'm at 250 a scoop... I guess I am going to start researching something to alleviate the cravings/withdrawls so that I can wean down ...
Originally Posted by 4mytasha
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take for you to get to that amount you are taking?
I'm just curious as to whether or not you were taking this for the buzz or to help with your depression.
I'm assuming then, that you started with 100 and went up from there rather than cutting back to the normal dose after the first time. (?)
I understand how this chemical can be abused for people that are depressed.
There's NOTHING in the WORLD that can compare with the feeling of feeling "normal".
In my case, for the 1st time EVER (except for my 18 years of drinking) as nothing the Drs. ever prescribed helped.
Have you discussed with your friend that gave you the initial 100 mg capsule, how he stopped taking this if he even has?
Maybe though, if he had a grab-bag of Nootropics, his playing Russion Roulette saved him from grabbing only the Tia.
Also, seeing as how you have a Dr. that knows what you are dealing with, is he trying to help in any way?
I realize that is a new subject to many US Drs. at this time but I have a feeling it won't be for long.
Maybe if he doesn't know how to help, he may be able to refer you to one that does.(?)
Maybe someone else knows the answer but as far as I can tell, I'm not even sure there ARE other SSRE's on the market.(?)
Also, MY experience with the Sulfate wasn't any help.
It supposedly takes longer to kick in and lasts longer but it had not effect on me and it's quite expensive compared to the sodium.
My thoughts on the sulphate would be the longer it lasts in the body, the harder it would be to stop taking but I'm not positive.
Good Luck!!!
I'm just curious as to whether or not you were taking this for the buzz or to help with your depression.
I'm assuming then, that you started with 100 and went up from there rather than cutting back to the normal dose after the first time. (?)
I understand how this chemical can be abused for people that are depressed.
There's NOTHING in the WORLD that can compare with the feeling of feeling "normal".
In my case, for the 1st time EVER (except for my 18 years of drinking) as nothing the Drs. ever prescribed helped.
Have you discussed with your friend that gave you the initial 100 mg capsule, how he stopped taking this if he even has?
Maybe though, if he had a grab-bag of Nootropics, his playing Russion Roulette saved him from grabbing only the Tia.
Also, seeing as how you have a Dr. that knows what you are dealing with, is he trying to help in any way?
I realize that is a new subject to many US Drs. at this time but I have a feeling it won't be for long.
Maybe if he doesn't know how to help, he may be able to refer you to one that does.(?)
Maybe someone else knows the answer but as far as I can tell, I'm not even sure there ARE other SSRE's on the market.(?)
Also, MY experience with the Sulfate wasn't any help.
It supposedly takes longer to kick in and lasts longer but it had not effect on me and it's quite expensive compared to the sodium.
My thoughts on the sulphate would be the longer it lasts in the body, the harder it would be to stop taking but I'm not positive.
Good Luck!!!
Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1
I was searching for help in this on Google and I came across the original posters post. I researched a little bit more and decided this is a place that helps, and I do need that now.
Lucky23Irish, I am in the same exact boat (almost) and have no idea how this crept up on me like it did. I have experimented with drugs when I was younger but I have, for at least the past five years, been a success in my career and my life. I always enjoyed researching about, and often trying, different "nootropic" supplements that can theoretically increase brain power, decrease anxiety and depressing, and increase energy. All of this was sold with the caveat that they were mostly benign substances.
And, for the most part, I found that to be completely true. However, long story short for now, I met tianeptine. My research indicated it was a tricyclic antidepressant with a limited effect on the mu-opiod receptor. OK - sounds mostly safe and manageable.
But it wasn't. This is the stuff that has gotten me the worst in my life. I am spending WAY too much money on it. I made a commitment on Thursday to reduce and hopefully elimate this substance from my life. I have been to through this "rodeo" before with other substances and I have a general idea of how it works. But man...this stuff is TOUGH to quit. The withdrawal symptoms are quick and incredibly debilitating.
I am going to try guys. I know I must have just typed a novel but I needed to get this out and start being honest with myself. I have too much to lose and I am terrified, especially since there are no traditional routes to deal with this substance - even if I went to a doctor, HOW would they ever approach this?
Lucky23Irish, I am in the same exact boat (almost) and have no idea how this crept up on me like it did. I have experimented with drugs when I was younger but I have, for at least the past five years, been a success in my career and my life. I always enjoyed researching about, and often trying, different "nootropic" supplements that can theoretically increase brain power, decrease anxiety and depressing, and increase energy. All of this was sold with the caveat that they were mostly benign substances.
And, for the most part, I found that to be completely true. However, long story short for now, I met tianeptine. My research indicated it was a tricyclic antidepressant with a limited effect on the mu-opiod receptor. OK - sounds mostly safe and manageable.
But it wasn't. This is the stuff that has gotten me the worst in my life. I am spending WAY too much money on it. I made a commitment on Thursday to reduce and hopefully elimate this substance from my life. I have been to through this "rodeo" before with other substances and I have a general idea of how it works. But man...this stuff is TOUGH to quit. The withdrawal symptoms are quick and incredibly debilitating.
I am going to try guys. I know I must have just typed a novel but I needed to get this out and start being honest with myself. I have too much to lose and I am terrified, especially since there are no traditional routes to deal with this substance - even if I went to a doctor, HOW would they ever approach this?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
Welcome takethetime
I know nothing about this drug but I wish you the best. There's also threads here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ianeptine.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ne-sodium.html
D
I know nothing about this drug but I wish you the best. There's also threads here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ianeptine.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ne-sodium.html
D
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