Is it ever acceptable to ask someone if they have been drinking here?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Is it ever acceptable to ask someone if they have been drinking here?
I would like some guidance. As a relative newcomer, I was wondering, in terms of SR etiquette and principles... is is ever acceptable to ask a poster " have you been drinking/using" as they write.
The reason I ask is that, sometimes I follow threads where it seems evident (to me at least) that the person is becoming somewhat incoherent...spelling errors.. losing the thread etc etc even when they are maintaining they are X days sober. Yet no one ever asks them the question "are you OK? Are you drinking there?"
Is this because it is "just not the done thing".. and it is judgemental? I ask this question because it strikes me that we are not doing people favours if we turn a blind eye to what they may (or may not) be doing.. that is to say they may be "denying the reality".
I myself have posted here in the past in a very drunken state. But I stated I was drunk first!
The reason I ask is that, sometimes I follow threads where it seems evident (to me at least) that the person is becoming somewhat incoherent...spelling errors.. losing the thread etc etc even when they are maintaining they are X days sober. Yet no one ever asks them the question "are you OK? Are you drinking there?"
Is this because it is "just not the done thing".. and it is judgemental? I ask this question because it strikes me that we are not doing people favours if we turn a blind eye to what they may (or may not) be doing.. that is to say they may be "denying the reality".
I myself have posted here in the past in a very drunken state. But I stated I was drunk first!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 189
Hi, Fabat.
I would hope someone would call me out if I was posting while under the influence, but claiming I was sober. I don't think it is ever appropriate to be mean or cruel to anyone, but I don't see anything wrong with asking.
I would hope someone would call me out if I was posting while under the influence, but claiming I was sober. I don't think it is ever appropriate to be mean or cruel to anyone, but I don't see anything wrong with asking.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
SR is a most anonymous forum, and many of us are alcoholics. Many people come here while they are still actively drinking too, it's not any different from any recovery forum or meeting in that sense.
It's certainly OK to ask someone if they need help, but "calling people out" or questioning their number of days sober, etc is not really helpful to anyone. Do some people come here and lie about their sobriety date? Probably. But the same thing happens at AA meetings and on other recovery sites around the web. Is it an honest thing to do - of course not. But it does happen, and remember that when we are actively drinking we do and say things are not honest.
It's certainly OK to ask someone if they need help, but "calling people out" or questioning their number of days sober, etc is not really helpful to anyone. Do some people come here and lie about their sobriety date? Probably. But the same thing happens at AA meetings and on other recovery sites around the web. Is it an honest thing to do - of course not. But it does happen, and remember that when we are actively drinking we do and say things are not honest.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: OZ
Posts: 2,055
IDK,..Everyone's writing style is different...Some people pride themselves on the correct grammar and spelling while others could not care less.
There are a lot of people here that are translating from other languages and also people on prescribed medications.
I have seen people here get less coherent as they respond to post but most of them have admitted that they are drinking and struggling.
I wouldn't like to have my sobriety questioned on here..
I would find that challenging and could put me on the defensive....
There are a lot of people here that are translating from other languages and also people on prescribed medications.
I have seen people here get less coherent as they respond to post but most of them have admitted that they are drinking and struggling.
I wouldn't like to have my sobriety questioned on here..
I would find that challenging and could put me on the defensive....
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,380
I agree with Scott.. We're not sober cops
That being said, I've done it a couple of times over the years - usually by PM and usually for cases where people are very upset & talking of harming themselves...
In most cases I've gotten back the answer 'no' - often very emphatically....
That kinda leaves you with nowhere to go then, and someone pissed at you
Most of the time IMO it's not a line of posting that's going to assist people in getting help.
D
That being said, I've done it a couple of times over the years - usually by PM and usually for cases where people are very upset & talking of harming themselves...
In most cases I've gotten back the answer 'no' - often very emphatically....
That kinda leaves you with nowhere to go then, and someone pissed at you
Most of the time IMO it's not a line of posting that's going to assist people in getting help.
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Thanks for your replies guys. Just a precision... of course I am not talking about people who generally make spelling or grammatical errors (like me!) or who for English is not their first language or who write quickly and carelessly depending on their mood (like me!) etc... I was referring to people who become increasingly incoherent as the thread goes on and start making more and more mistakes etc.
But I do agree, it would probably not be helpful to "call people out" in any situation and I can see that it would not help people to gain confidence in this forum.
But I do agree, it would probably not be helpful to "call people out" in any situation and I can see that it would not help people to gain confidence in this forum.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Interesting what Dee posted just as I was about to say that I have seen mods do this. I think it might be best to let them do it in all but the most extreme circumstances, and then only when you are certain that the result will be positive.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
There are many reasons that explain why some people's comments are incoherent. There are people here who seemed to have been drinking when they've posted -- they have "tells" that, over time, give them away. Other people post while they've been drinking and seem to believe that no one notices, partly because no one asks. They disappear, get themselves banned from the site or come back in a sober state. There are thousands of ways to lie to ourselves, and people struggling with alcohol are no strangers to, um, bending the truth.
It generally doesn't matter to me. Dishonesty is an act of self-degradation and self-destruction, and is largely none of my business unless and until it tramples over my freedom and my personal values in a significant way. I've lived and worked with or for people who can't seem to get through an hour without lying. I've also known people here who couldn't seem to comment without lying about one thing or another, including their sobriety. But when it's clear that they're lying about why they can't get sober or why they drank in a particular instance or instances, there are ways to bring this to their attention without annihilating them (I think that most of us know and practice this when we choose to comment), and which I don't always do. It's a Universal Law in my reality that dishonesty always comes back much harder and with far worse consequences than it was first given. Any embarrassment people may suffer as a result of their dishonesty is nothing in comparison to what's in store for them down the line.
In the end, in my clinical work and in my personal life, it's what a person doesn't say or refuses to think about or acknowledge, what the truth is, for example, that tells me more about someone than any amount of lying ever can.
To paraphrase the AA Big Book, "...there are those among us who seem to be constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." Though I don't always take this literally, I am very much familiar with and in agreement with the reality upon which this observation is based.
"The cruelest lies are often told in silence." --Robert Louis Stevenson author of, among much else, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
It generally doesn't matter to me. Dishonesty is an act of self-degradation and self-destruction, and is largely none of my business unless and until it tramples over my freedom and my personal values in a significant way. I've lived and worked with or for people who can't seem to get through an hour without lying. I've also known people here who couldn't seem to comment without lying about one thing or another, including their sobriety. But when it's clear that they're lying about why they can't get sober or why they drank in a particular instance or instances, there are ways to bring this to their attention without annihilating them (I think that most of us know and practice this when we choose to comment), and which I don't always do. It's a Universal Law in my reality that dishonesty always comes back much harder and with far worse consequences than it was first given. Any embarrassment people may suffer as a result of their dishonesty is nothing in comparison to what's in store for them down the line.
In the end, in my clinical work and in my personal life, it's what a person doesn't say or refuses to think about or acknowledge, what the truth is, for example, that tells me more about someone than any amount of lying ever can.
To paraphrase the AA Big Book, "...there are those among us who seem to be constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." Though I don't always take this literally, I am very much familiar with and in agreement with the reality upon which this observation is based.
"The cruelest lies are often told in silence." --Robert Louis Stevenson author of, among much else, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
saoutchik
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 16,187
I am surprised at how little it happens all things considered, I don't follow as many threads as some people so of course it is statistically likely that I won't see as many drunk but pretending to be sober posts as some but I can say that in some 3,300 posts I reckon I have only suspected it two or three times
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
I pretty much attempt to stick to my esh in replies and work on this huge plank in my eye........
If someone is belligerent/antagonistic I generally hit ignore or simply move on - snarky to me is different than just someone loaded trying to communicate. Generally speaking, I read where others may suggest some rest might help the poster. That's good advice for me at times as well !
It's a good question - I say just let it roll, live and let live best we can
If someone is belligerent/antagonistic I generally hit ignore or simply move on - snarky to me is different than just someone loaded trying to communicate. Generally speaking, I read where others may suggest some rest might help the poster. That's good advice for me at times as well !
It's a good question - I say just let it roll, live and let live best we can
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Can any of us accurately perceive truth (or reality) through the internet? I personally doubt it. Sometimes our instincts turn out to be correct, other times it turns out that we infuse things (in this case, other people's posts) with our imaginations.
For me, I come here for information, support, and interaction and to help when I can. Yes sometimes what we don't know can be quite unsettling, but is it helpful to dive into apparent or imagined uncertainty? I generally find it much more useful to take the information I find interesting and helpful and use it when I can. Can it be helpful for the other person to be confronted via an online forum when they do not openly and willingly leave a door open for me to walk through it? Rarely (and in exceptional cases) maybe yes, when I already have an open enough relationship with the person to do so... but in most cases, imo, it probably does not help much anyone. Interventions can sometimes work well IRL, but over the internet I don't see how it can be very effective, if for nothing else, because anyone here can come and go, comment etc without truly having to take responsibility for our behaviors in front of others. For me in the context of an online forum, it's better to focus on leaving that responsibility for the actual person to decide and otherwise mind my own business.
For me, I come here for information, support, and interaction and to help when I can. Yes sometimes what we don't know can be quite unsettling, but is it helpful to dive into apparent or imagined uncertainty? I generally find it much more useful to take the information I find interesting and helpful and use it when I can. Can it be helpful for the other person to be confronted via an online forum when they do not openly and willingly leave a door open for me to walk through it? Rarely (and in exceptional cases) maybe yes, when I already have an open enough relationship with the person to do so... but in most cases, imo, it probably does not help much anyone. Interventions can sometimes work well IRL, but over the internet I don't see how it can be very effective, if for nothing else, because anyone here can come and go, comment etc without truly having to take responsibility for our behaviors in front of others. For me in the context of an online forum, it's better to focus on leaving that responsibility for the actual person to decide and otherwise mind my own business.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,615
Every single one of my posts is written with a single thumb on a phone. I also have a "no edits" policy with myself, it keeps me honest. If someone called me out as drunk, I'd probably just laugh.
But that's just me, I think this forum ain't about me. It's about all of us getting and staying sober together. I've never called someone out on their drunk posting. I don't see the point. it migh be correct, it might be honest, but I can't think of an instance where it's actually helpful to the poster. It shows I'm kinda savvy maybe, but so what?
When it's totally obvious and the person is doing damage, I think once I encouraged the poster to get some water. That's really all we can do. Encourag, not police in the name of "honesty"
But that's just me, I think this forum ain't about me. It's about all of us getting and staying sober together. I've never called someone out on their drunk posting. I don't see the point. it migh be correct, it might be honest, but I can't think of an instance where it's actually helpful to the poster. It shows I'm kinda savvy maybe, but so what?
When it's totally obvious and the person is doing damage, I think once I encouraged the poster to get some water. That's really all we can do. Encourag, not police in the name of "honesty"
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
As always, there are great insights here.
My own personal choice is to occasionally encourage someone to put it down if they've picked up or not pick it up in the first place. If someone is writing while clearly inebriated, though, I'm not sure there is much I can offer and tend to leave it to our wise moderators to determine how best to respond.
My own personal choice is to occasionally encourage someone to put it down if they've picked up or not pick it up in the first place. If someone is writing while clearly inebriated, though, I'm not sure there is much I can offer and tend to leave it to our wise moderators to determine how best to respond.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Very interesting thread. I personally would not want to be called out publicly but would appreciate a private message of genuine concern. If someone were to point it out on a thread I would feel humiliated, bad, sad and angry- emotions stemming from my very own behavior. I tend to feel, and I imagine I am not alone in this, that no one, NO ONE could make me feel worse about my drinking than I already feel about my own self. I do enjoy writing, just for pleasure, and take great pride in whatever I choose to put out there. Even in my text/SMS messages I never use abbreviations and always try to be dramatically correct. I cringe when I see errors in my own writing. But there are times that I really feel the need to respond and do so quickly, maybe while my children are nagging at me or I am in a hurry, and I do make errors. I have often wondered if people have thought I have been drinking due to that fact. I think that here on the board we get a good feel for one another. I know that certain people are coherent but do not have the same attention to spelling or grammar as I do, or others who do not know how to spell at all, or others who are always perfectly precise with everything…. If I noticed a distinctive difference I would think of sending a private message, but not announcing it publicly.
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London
Posts: 170
I had to do an addressing substance related offending course, th teachers or whatever they were called were proper straightheads and people used to comenin smacked out of their head, they would make all the right noises while i debated some of their points. And they was going look dave gets it, i felt like saying bollocks does he, he just shot up in the car park.
A little different to what your asking here, but I can see why you would want to call people out I felt like doing the same, but I also had to spend time with these people and get the class done before I could get back to work.
BTW im typing this on a small phone keyboard, that's why there is errors, im not drunk
A little different to what your asking here, but I can see why you would want to call people out I felt like doing the same, but I also had to spend time with these people and get the class done before I could get back to work.
BTW im typing this on a small phone keyboard, that's why there is errors, im not drunk
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 346
Me? I can type perfectly with a keyboard as I am now. Lately I've been logging on with phones and an Ipad and have a lot of trouble (and little patience) for navigating those screens--I don't even like the way my posts look. Have I posted drunk? Absolutely. Have people asked me if I were ok and I lied and said 'yes ' ? Yes. Does it do me any good to lie here? No.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,351
When people are in an alcoholic state of mind , we are unpredictable. Having said that , I have never lied to my July 13 class as they are my biggest support.
We all deal with things differently , maybe some are too embarrassed if confronted , but are coming here for help , not judgement.
:-) have a good night
It's a good point you raise , but impossible to police , so just take it on face value and realise the person in question is in trouble and they probably know it .
We all deal with things differently , maybe some are too embarrassed if confronted , but are coming here for help , not judgement.
:-) have a good night
It's a good point you raise , but impossible to police , so just take it on face value and realise the person in question is in trouble and they probably know it .
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
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I've sat next to a guy at a AA meeting and he picked up a coin for being sober 5 months and he reeked of alcohol ...
To the original post, thru the years on here there have been numerous posts where I suspected they had been drinking . Many times, posters have came out and said they are drinking while posting.
There isn't much point in talking sense with someone inebriated . The thought processed is diminished after becoming intoxicated. I think it better to talk to someone after they sober up.
To the original post, thru the years on here there have been numerous posts where I suspected they had been drinking . Many times, posters have came out and said they are drinking while posting.
There isn't much point in talking sense with someone inebriated . The thought processed is diminished after becoming intoxicated. I think it better to talk to someone after they sober up.
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