Gottalife

I have identified with a lot of posts in this thread but this is very close to my experience. I came into AA with quite an anti reaction to the God idea, but that was o.k. My step two, which kind of sets the stage for spiritual recovery was like ''I don't believe at the moment and I don't have any feeling for this god thing, but I am willing to believe that this approach might work for me as it has worked for you. Also, I would be willing to change my belief if I got some satisfactory proof of the existence of such a power" That was enough to get me started, and I never looked back.

If I had been unwilling to even consider the possibility, then I don't see how I could have got past the second step. That being the case, a step based sobriety would be unlikely to work and I might be wise to look elsewhere. An open mind is the secret.

Religion doesn't seem to play much of a part in AA here. Occasionally I will hear someone talk about themselves as a recovering catholic, or a lapsed one, and I might here some other religious reference on one in every ten meetings, but I could not tell you who are our most religious members. I don't know who regularly goes to church on Sunday, they don't talk about it. I think that, as in most other things, AA is a reflection of society in general, and religion is not as big a part of our society as it used to be,

LiveInPeace

LOL I had no idea! I think it was a popular term around the '80s. Funny that I still use it! You'd laugh at my accent. Sometimes I say it like this: "aw-some" and not "ahw-some".

LOL I'm using a word connected to the Osmonds. I just find that really funny.

My husband's college friend married a woman from England and he gets such a kick out of some of the terms she used.

Mountainmanbob

I enjoy AA and it has helped me much in regards to sobriety but, if I depended on AA for my spiritual or religious growth I would be very lacking.
MM

LiveInPeace

Thanks, MM. I'm curious what you use for your spiritual growth if not AA? Thanks in advance.

Gottalife

AA would be absolutely useless for religious growth. It's not in that business and all members are free to pursue whatever religious path they choose, or none at all.

The fundamental principle in AA to enlarge and perfect our spritual life is self sacrifice and service to others. The price of sobriety is the destruction of self centredness. I have heard AA referred to as a spiritual kindergarten. Perhaps that is where we commence our spiritual education. Many members pursue outside sources of spiritual growth and understanding, ranging from the wide range of litterature available to attending retreats, often run by ordained religious people who provide counsel and advice on spiritual matters regardless of your personal religion or lack of one.

Mountainmanbob

Just for starters
you may wish to visit youtube
John MacArthur sermons
many subjects covered there.
MB

sg1970

This statement sums up why I kept going back even though I had some huge resentments against religion. You can't put a value on being with others who understand what you are fighting and want to see you succeed.

bradly22

Soulpower89,

I know exactly what you are talking about. You do not have to change your beliefs in any way, shape or manner. You'll be just as well off with prayer as you would be without it. The religious part of AA did seem strange at first to me too and, in some ways, I guess it still does seem a little odd. Maybe it's because most of us millennials don't respond well to religion anyway.

I saw that another member posted about smart and AVRT. You'll have to let me know if there are more young people involved in these alternatives. I also noticed that there were very few young people to be seen in the AA meetings that I used to attend. Maybe certain areas have different demographics all together.

Mountainmanbob

I find this teaching to be of most interest.
M-Bob


Saved or Self-Deceived, Part 1 (Selected Scriptures) John MacArthur
https://youtu.be/0lRkU4KrURI

freestylebob

Hi SoulPower
You have the power you don't need a Higher Power. Many choices in recovery that are secular, LifeRing, Smart, SOS, Free Style Recovery to name a few. Google alternatives to 12 step. Just remember all programs can work if you work them and all programs can fail, it's a choice to drink/use again. I got sober online, leave your religion at the door and get on with recovery worked for me. Recovery is for ppl of all faiths and those with none. It's your recovery figure out what works best for you.
Take Care
Bob O.

hpdw

I second that FreestyleBob. Iv'e changed my thinking over the years over this subject . I don't go for the church thing now but more of trying to be at peace with the universe and to cultivate compassion and a positive kind attitude .

Thought in the mind hath made us. What we are
By thought we wrought and built. If a man's mind
Hath evil thoughts, pain comes on him as comes
The wheel the ox behind . . . If one endure in purity
of thought joy follows him as his own shadow - sure

James Allen

paddyjnr1

It's. Better symbol form of religion with the big book as it's bible with no mention of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and much simplistic without the feeling of guilt.

Berrybean

Hi.

There are some excellent responses on here.

I'll add that in my group there is a very low % of religious folk. But most have developed an idea of their own Higher Power, and try to pray / meditate daily to ensure as healthy a sobriety as they can get.

If you wanted to read more discussion about the whole Higher Power malarky, then it might be worth investigating Step 2 on the 12-step support area ... Step 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Also, as someone else suggested, the 'We agnostics' section of the Big Book... http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt4.pdf

And the Step 2 of the 12 and 12 book... http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step2.pdf

Basically, the whole point of the Higher Power is that it is not us / you. When we start looking in depth at the problems we alcoholics have had in our lives, many of them have come down to our 'ego run riot'; selfishness; and wilfulness. Although we manage to mess things up on a regular basis, we still persist in thinking that we should run the show - and not just our show a lot of the time. Give us half the chance and we're busy thinking and saying what everyone else should be doing as well. Once we start working on these, and relying more on our Higher Power, things do tend to start getting better for us, whether our HP is: Love; Group Of Drunks; Peace; My Dead Grandmother; a Christian God; Nature; or (mine, because I finally became comfortable about the fact that I would know everything, and even science seems a little conceited to be honest) an accepted Unknown Something That Made It All Be. We all find our own HPs.

There are also a large number of speaker recording that cover this area... AA Step 2 Speaker Tapes | RecoveryAudio.org (I find Earl Hightower and Sandy Beach really helpful, and remember listening to Mickey Bush a number of times when I was trying to get my head around steps 1-3 as well - he made me laugh which was good, because for a while there bug**r all else did Oh yes - and I like Clancy's observations as well, but hesitated to mention him because I suspect he's a little controversial).

Physics4Life

The higher power concept in AA doesn't have to be a personal entity that watches over you. It can be your home group. It can be the universe itself. It can be anything that isn't you... because if you are your own higher power, you'll probably end up getting drunk with your higher power.

LiveInPeace

Just sharing my experience.... When it was suggested to me to lay aside all the beliefs I had about religion and God from childhood, this helped me tremendously.

The God I have in my life now is night and day to the God of my childhood.

Mountainmanbob

From the AA Big Book

"Some have a childhood belief to which they return with a deeper understanding."

This would also be in my sober story,
M-Bob

schnappi99

I had a little bit of the big book play out for me last night. As part of my "conscious contact" 11th step work, I've been doing service manning the desk at my Buddhist community center. There was a trainee there too and it was a slow night so we started chatting. She's been practicing longer than I and has overcome various abuse some from her family or origin, husband and practices self-care wrt managing her relationship with her emotionally abusive son. She did all that by doing the practice the way the doctrine recommends, attending the fellowship, doing the service & study- she didn't need a 12 step program; it was a clear example of how its important to see how other people get it right. I shared some of the resentments I've manufactured about the practice & my self-serving interpretations, it was quite clear to her how destructive that sort of thing can be yet I bought off on it for so many years.

Its my own mind that seems to need Alanon/AA to get the message... she's been working her conscious contact all along. I was able to share how the 12-step work has been entirely compatible with my non-Christian religion, she had a vague impression that Christianity of some form was fundamental to the program.

She related something of the emotional abuse her son has trouble with- right up my alley, exactly the stuff I've done and am recovering from. Perhaps my sordid past will be of use.. she asked for my phone & email to pass on to him, maybe he and I will be in touch sometime.

LiveInPeace

I've heard that's common.