Mountainmanbob

That is one very interesting thing, most all seem to work a slightly different Program. No one that I know works a Program just like mine -yet- it has worked near perfect now for 8 years.
Mountainman

MIRecovery

When all else fails read the directions. Read the chapter to the agnostic in the AA big book

Coldfusion

Before I got involved with AA, I believed spirituality was achieved through intoxication. In fact, all I achieved was unconsciousness. AA is a program for achieving a spiritual awakening through dealing with my past and living each day in service to my Higher Power. While AA was not a source of religion, it opened my eyes to the value of spirituality in recovery.

wpainterw

Soulpower99. This problem of AA and its relationship to organized religion and "God" is a pervasive one and seems to grow in importance yearly. There are now many Agnostic AA groups, particularly in large, metropolitan cities, a website called AA Agnostica (google that) and even a series of international conventions, as well as a proposal to write a version of the Big Book which would be more helpful for agnostics, atheists and free thinkers. Do send me a private message if you with to discuss this further.

W.

shortstop81

In my experience, AA is not a religious program. But it is a spiritual one.

I admit I've never been keen on saying the Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings. But I just treat it like a meeting tradition and go with it.

Dee74

There's a forum here on secular 12 steps that may interest you soulpower

Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

D

greens

I think there's an atheist or agnostic version of the steps? Also, Charlotte kasl rewrites the steps in a more empowering way in many roads one journey.

A lot of people have a difficult time taking the god aspect out of the steps though. There is nothing wrong with that and it does not mean you are doing anything wrong or that you can't get sober. Use whatever parts of the program that help you.

schnappi99

I've been a buddhist for 30 years or so, I felt kind of like an outsider when I first started going to alanon because of the prominence of the "god/higher power" references. But I also really really needed some recovery because I was a miserable s.o.b. and my marriage was a slow-motion car wreck, taking both of us down with it along with our daughter.

A buddy of mine is in AA and although he's Catholic he was really reluctant to have religion in his face in meetings. But, he relayed what his sponsor told him about the God/higher power references; "how much do you want to recover?" I was strongly identifying with the alanons and thirsty for some serenity instead of the nightly combat, so the choice ended up being simple; when they say God I refer to my practice and I quit having an opinion about metaphysics.

Interestingly, learning to do the steps and service, traditions and all the rest, just like they say to do it, makes me a less judgy and opinionated Buddhist.

Time2Rise

That is AA. You will either need to change your beliefs or try another, secular program. There is nothing wrong with changing your beliefs or trying another program; however, AA and specifically the 12-Steps is not a good fit for everyone.

Time2Rise

I stopped going to AA because IMO it is religious. Again, there is nothing wrong with that, but religion doesn't work for me.

Please understand that it's OK if you can't make AA and the 12-Steps work for you. Some AA members will say that anyone can work the 12-Steps, but that's simply not true. Some of us can't accept AA doctrine, and once again there is nothing wrong with not accepting AA doctrine. There are many other options.

It's your sobriety, forge a trail that works for you.

Time2Rise

I don't mean to be argumentative, but AA and the 12-Steps are all about prayer. Steps 3, 7 & 11 specifically require prayers to a God type being.

CousinA

If you read the book it's pretty clear that religion should be an outside issue, although not all AA members see it that way. I never really had an an attraction to religion. I went to Passover seders every year with my family and I enjoyed seeing my cousins, but that was about it. That hasn't changed with my membership in AA. What has changed is my aversion to religion. There are people dear to me who are religious and whatever gets you through the night is fine by me these days.

I've learned to separate religion and yes, gods from spirituality. I don't believe in a sobriety granting, prayer answering god. When I had the conversation with my sponsor he told me that's ok so long as I keep a couple things in mind; If i don't believe in god then stop playing it. because integrity is kind of important and and to go find what it is I do believe. Who knew?

-allan

Syn3rgistic

This may be helpful, this may not be to. I'll take the chance, soulpower.

My background is that I'm an Atheist. Which means that I don't believe in any form of theism on insufficient evidence. If someday we get some evidence of a higher power/ god. Then I'll change my tune, absolutely. AA HAS helped me. How? When I don't believe in a higher power? The backbone of AA in my opinion is to instill HOPE in you. Whether that is through prayer, or giving up your will to a higher power, meeting with people and finding support. All of that instills hope. So when I read the big book or hear others talk of a higher power. I "pray" to myself-- to my brain specifically. I say, "syn, please give me strength to not drink." I say, turn your life and your will over to a higher power? Well that higher power is future, sober, healthy, version of myself. There is NO evidence that that version of myself will exsist, but there is no evidence that any God or higher power exists-- but that's not the point. It's about BELIEVING that you will recover, and HOPING that you can.

That's what's been working for me in regards to using the AA program as just ONE piece of reinforcement (of the many) to keep myself staying sober.

fini

AA is not a source of religion for me.
nor do i think AA itself is "religious".
i'm neither agnostic, nor theist nor atheist nor religious.
you've had a few recommendations to read the chapter "we agnostics", and i'll just say i found that chapter worse than useless for myself. the effect it had on me was to make the program seem more "religious" than it otherwise would.

praying? yeah, i pray. what i mean by that is that i know i need help for stuff, and guidance. praying can be a whole bunch of different things. such as sitting quietly until you discern the right course. listening for "the quiet small voice within". seeking to hear your conscience. tapping into "universal goodness".
there are as many ways of praying as there are people.

don't sweat it. if you're seeing people there who seem to have what you want, stick around.

Dee74

Hi Everybody

Just a reminder that this thread is in the Newcomers Forum

These threads always work best when members share experience, rather than opinions.

If you're getting hot under the collar and you've posted several times, it might be a good idea to take a break, chillax a little, hug a puppy...whatever

Dee
Moderator
SR

LadyinBC

Always keep an open mind. I am not religious and I went to AA a lot in the beginning and still go once in awhile. I don't necessarily follow all the steps but I do find comfort in the rooms. When I started I found one small thing I agreed with and liked and held on to that.

I also asked myself this question anytime I was asked or thought about something I needed to do for my sobriety. Question was if I had been told I had to do these things in order to get my booze would I have done them. Yup, I sure would have for the booze no questions asked and I wouldn't have cared what they talked about at these meetings.

I did all these things cause I was that desperate to stay sober. That is how I had to look at it.

fantail

If you like the idea of face-to-face, try a lot of different meetings. And think about location, because that'll change the groups you get. I go to meetings in the same neighborhoods where you can buy bulk granola and local art; those are less religious than the ones I tried this summer in a rural area.

Religion-wise, no, it's not necessary to be Christian or to believe anything in particular. Once I learned to look past that I was able to look for the good.

I had to work hard at it while doing the steps, which I'd decided to do in earnest. The approach I took was to assume that everything in the text had a kernel of truth to it, and it was my job to detach that truth from the time period and worldview and look for the universal meaning. For example, prayer -- I don't believe in any form of deity or energy that intervenes in individual lives. But people talk about it a lot. So I sat down and wrote down all the things I know or think about prayer -- why people do it, how they do it, what a person who believes in prayer probably experiences when they pray, yadda yadda yadda. At the end of it I came up with a prayer-like journal reflection that I do every few days. It's a helpful tool that I gained from taking a different belief system seriously. There's other stuff I've discarded, but even just the process helps me I think.

awuh1

You sound like me when I first went to AA.

Here is a link to a description of my experience. It's sort of a long thread but the experience is described in the original post and speaks directly to your questions.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...xperience.html

IMO a genuine and sincere search with and open mind is essential. If you think I might help send me a PM.

Meraviglioso

I personally think the "AA is religious" is a often used as an excuse not to go. I do not attend regularly due to the fact that the one meeting help per week in my town is difficult for me to attend due to my child-care situation. I am also not religious but I am not anti-religion either. I don't mind saying the serenity prayer, even using the word god, because I just think of myself asking the universe for help.
I think you can take what you want from AA. I personally like attending meetings when I can just to hear the stories of others and to know that I am guaranteed to stay sober for the 1.5 hours that I am there.
If others there are using their religious beliefs to help them, good for them. I am not, but I still benefit from connecting with other alcoholics even if the bulk of my own personal program of recovery relies on other methods.
I just don't understand the hate form either side. Anyway that someone gets sober is admirable. If you got sober through AA and only AA, fantastic! You don;t need to assume AA is the only way though. If you got sober through AVRT or Smart Recovery, fantastic! You don't need to knock others who used AA, prayer, their God or religion.

ubntubnt

I had mixed experiences with it. I found the group fantastic and it really made me realize that anyone can experience the kind of problems that I was experiencing. They were a lucid, thoughtful and insightful bunch. I would recommend to anyone to try AA and see for themselves.

Insofar as the whole higher power thing. It kind of depends how you personally want to take it. For me the approach that worked was this.....are you in control of your drinking? No, why not? If you can't control it then there must be something else at play other than your conscious awareness and ability. that doesn't mean a God but something else that you can't control that is hurting you. So acknowledge the fact that you are not in control and move forward.

Then that was followed by my sponsor constantly asking me to pray which was completely counter to the space that I was in. In retrospect I should have spoken more openly to my sponsor about how this was bothering me. Instead I pulled back from AA and that was a mistake.

So, I don't think there is a right or wrong here. Its whatever works for you. But one thing I do know is that the sense of community and support that AA provides can be really valuable.