Science of addiction
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Science of addiction
Hey everyone!
About to clock in a week of sobriety, woohoo!
One of the many things I have been doing is listening to podcasts and audiobooks. I have found The Bubble Hour and I'm really enjoying their format (it does annoy me that they do everything over the phone and quality suffers) but the content is awesome.
I looked back a year or so ago and saw a podcast with guest Dr. John F Kelly, of Mass General and Harvard. His information was fascinating, compelling, and enlightening.
I have been googling his research and wanted to recommend those of you in early recovery like me in particular to do the same. The science behind addiction is still emerging and explains in many ways what makes some an alcoholic and others a "normal" drinker.
The podcast also touched on stigma and its effect on alcoholics getting the help we need.
I recommend looking him up as well as the Bubble Hour podcast, very helpful to me in this early stage
.
About to clock in a week of sobriety, woohoo!
One of the many things I have been doing is listening to podcasts and audiobooks. I have found The Bubble Hour and I'm really enjoying their format (it does annoy me that they do everything over the phone and quality suffers) but the content is awesome.
I looked back a year or so ago and saw a podcast with guest Dr. John F Kelly, of Mass General and Harvard. His information was fascinating, compelling, and enlightening.
I have been googling his research and wanted to recommend those of you in early recovery like me in particular to do the same. The science behind addiction is still emerging and explains in many ways what makes some an alcoholic and others a "normal" drinker.
The podcast also touched on stigma and its effect on alcoholics getting the help we need.
I recommend looking him up as well as the Bubble Hour podcast, very helpful to me in this early stage
.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Thanks for the suggestion, I will definitely take a look. I also find that reading about the science behind addiction is extremely helpful for me. I very much agree that alcoholism is a disease, not a personality defect. Finally coming to terms with that was helpful in reaching final acceptance that I can never drink again. I have an allergy to alcohol. Nothing in the world will change that, it is not that I lack willpower or am weak, I just can't drink. The end.
You might also enjoy reading the book "Under the Influence: Understanding the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism"
Some kind person posted some excerpts from the book quite a few years back, here is a link to the thread:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html
You might also enjoy reading the book "Under the Influence: Understanding the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism"
Some kind person posted some excerpts from the book quite a few years back, here is a link to the thread:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Thanks for that recommendation, I listen to the AA New Zealand podcast meetings, they're really good.
I'm struggling with coming to terms with the fact that I am NOT a normal drinker and I CANNOT drink normally. I'll look into these.
Thanks x
I'm struggling with coming to terms with the fact that I am NOT a normal drinker and I CANNOT drink normally. I'll look into these.
Thanks x
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Midwest
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Thanks Mera. That thread (and books therewithin quoted) should be bumped daily. I am one who must know how things work and have read tomes of published papers on this condition. Nice to see nearly all of the info (up to that time) in a tidy package. BH, keep doin' what you're doin'. There are a lot of us cerebral types out there and research is just as valid a recovery method as all the rest as long as we're focused on anything but the next drink.
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Thanks everyone. Mera, I'll check out that book. I have seen it in the past and I may have even bought it on KIndle, I'll check.
Zom, seeing that we aren't all just lacking will power and there are scientific reasons for addiction really makes it easier for me to understand, accept, and admit. I agree with you.
Zom, seeing that we aren't all just lacking will power and there are scientific reasons for addiction really makes it easier for me to understand, accept, and admit. I agree with you.
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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My only point BH is I knew all the data before my last relapse. It certainly helps and I am all for medicine, therapy if I need it but until I find all the answers (maybe I won't) I still can't drink. My discovery will take maybe longer than I have left on this planet--for sure enough to do for 40 yrs or so
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I have googled <John F. Kelly, M.D. Alcoholism, Mass General> and have found his articles helpful and interesting. He clearly favors AA but does not appear to insist that it's the only road to recovery. He reaffirms my belief that the crucial factor is relationship to a group of recovering alcoholics, some of whom have had quite a track record of success. Let me quote:
"For the past several years, the addiction research field has moved beyond asking whether AA and 12-step treatments work, to investigating how and why they work. We have now discovered that the reason why 12-step professional treatments so often do better is because they engage people in groups, increasing their ability to cope with the demands of recovery, and foster critically-important social network changes within the communities in which they live every day. For some, AA has also been shown to work by increasing spirituality, or helping people reframe and take a different viewpoint on stress (e.g., instead of being seen as a negative, it becomes viewed as the fertilizer that fuels personal growth)."
In my postings I have analogized this to climbing a rock face. Although some have done it alone, it is far less risky and more likely to succeed if you rope up with those who have had some experience. Also he refutes the notion that a "disease" concept of alcoholism if it rules out any effort on the part of the person seeking recovery. Indeed, successful recovery usually requires that person to make the major effort. He or she cannot be dragged up the mountain. And he says that fifty percent of alcoholism is due to genetics. I believe also that a major factor is cultural, the neighborhood where the person was brought up and where he or she lives. If there are dope dealers down on the corner and all your friends are getting high your chances are correspondingly less. Stable families with non toxic parents are a plus. Universities, sadly, are a minus, what with their historic drinking culture. Certainly that was so in my case
The bottom line is that, since you can't do much about genetics, it's best to move to a better neighborhood if you can and be extra careful if you're lucky enough to go to college.
W.
"For the past several years, the addiction research field has moved beyond asking whether AA and 12-step treatments work, to investigating how and why they work. We have now discovered that the reason why 12-step professional treatments so often do better is because they engage people in groups, increasing their ability to cope with the demands of recovery, and foster critically-important social network changes within the communities in which they live every day. For some, AA has also been shown to work by increasing spirituality, or helping people reframe and take a different viewpoint on stress (e.g., instead of being seen as a negative, it becomes viewed as the fertilizer that fuels personal growth)."
In my postings I have analogized this to climbing a rock face. Although some have done it alone, it is far less risky and more likely to succeed if you rope up with those who have had some experience. Also he refutes the notion that a "disease" concept of alcoholism if it rules out any effort on the part of the person seeking recovery. Indeed, successful recovery usually requires that person to make the major effort. He or she cannot be dragged up the mountain. And he says that fifty percent of alcoholism is due to genetics. I believe also that a major factor is cultural, the neighborhood where the person was brought up and where he or she lives. If there are dope dealers down on the corner and all your friends are getting high your chances are correspondingly less. Stable families with non toxic parents are a plus. Universities, sadly, are a minus, what with their historic drinking culture. Certainly that was so in my case
The bottom line is that, since you can't do much about genetics, it's best to move to a better neighborhood if you can and be extra careful if you're lucky enough to go to college.
W.
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wpainter, I got the same out of reading his work.
I highly recommend listening to him speak on the issue too. He was also a speaker at the White House a year or 2 ago on the subject.
Thanks for sharing what you've found.
I am only a week sober and feel great, and I think a lot of it has to do with my attending a couple of meetings and reading a lot on the subject. And being here! The group concept helps me a lot. I like that Dr. Kelly supports the scientific basis for addiction as well as strongly supports the notion of group healing.
I highly recommend listening to him speak on the issue too. He was also a speaker at the White House a year or 2 ago on the subject.
Thanks for sharing what you've found.
I am only a week sober and feel great, and I think a lot of it has to do with my attending a couple of meetings and reading a lot on the subject. And being here! The group concept helps me a lot. I like that Dr. Kelly supports the scientific basis for addiction as well as strongly supports the notion of group healing.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
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It has been my view that alcoholism literature has often suffered from an "either/or" approach, e.g. that either it's a "disease" like measles and requires only medical help while the patient remains relatively passive, or that it results from "character defects" which can only be removed by a "higher power" or that it's due to that old devil, the AV which must be ignored or told to shut up and that group meetings are not necessary and may even be counterproductive. May my Higher Power forgive me but I'm a hopeless eclectic! The only dogma I really respect is the specialty of the American Kennel Club and even there I have had some doubts (having seen a very ugly Australian Sheepdog get a First Placement in the Sporting Group when my English Setter didn't even make the cut. (It was so hot that day that dogs had to be "iced" to keep them from collapsing. Maybe the judge, who had always seemed so fond of "George" (he once said the dog had everything but brains) might have benefitted from an icing down himself!
Forgive me, the very mention of dogma sets me off! Alcoholism is a mixed bag: part genetic, part personality characteristics ("defects"sounds too much like "bad boy"): shyness,low self confidence, risk taking, compulsive-obsessive, perfectionist), clinical dual or triple diagnostic items, like depression, bi-polar, borderline personality, and, very important- cultural setting, stability of home and neighborhood, abusive or toxic parents or siblings, college drinking or drugging
A mixed bag where dogma (there I go again) merely obscures the debate. And why indeed should there be a "debate"? The important thing is what to do about it or as the rock song used to go, "I've go to get out of this place!" Get some others in recovery, rope up and climb the mountain one step at a time. There is not one path. There are several. If it works then work it. Choose the one that's best for you. Don't look down, look to the sunny fields at the top. If you happen to fall, don't give up. Dust yourself off and pick up where you left off. Never surrender!
Forgive me, the very mention of dogma sets me off! Alcoholism is a mixed bag: part genetic, part personality characteristics ("defects"sounds too much like "bad boy"): shyness,low self confidence, risk taking, compulsive-obsessive, perfectionist), clinical dual or triple diagnostic items, like depression, bi-polar, borderline personality, and, very important- cultural setting, stability of home and neighborhood, abusive or toxic parents or siblings, college drinking or drugging
A mixed bag where dogma (there I go again) merely obscures the debate. And why indeed should there be a "debate"? The important thing is what to do about it or as the rock song used to go, "I've go to get out of this place!" Get some others in recovery, rope up and climb the mountain one step at a time. There is not one path. There are several. If it works then work it. Choose the one that's best for you. Don't look down, look to the sunny fields at the top. If you happen to fall, don't give up. Dust yourself off and pick up where you left off. Never surrender!
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Originally Posted by wpainterw 
It has been my view that alcoholism literature has often suffered from an "either/or" approach, e.g. that either it's a "disease" like measles and requires only medical help while the patient remains relatively passive, or that it results from "character defects" which can only be removed by a "higher power" or that it's due to that old devil, the AV which must be ignored or told to shut up and that group meetings are not necessary and may even be counterproductive. May my Higher Power forgive me but I'm a hopeless eclectic! The only dogma I really respect is the specialty of the American Kennel Club and even there I have had some doubts (having seen a very ugly Australian Sheepdog get a First Placement in the Sporting Group when my English Setter didn't even make the cut. (It was so hot that day that dogs had to be "iced" to keep them from collapsing. Maybe the judge, who had always seemed so fond of "George" (he once said the dog had everything but brains) might have benefitted from an icing down himself!
Forgive me, the very mention of dogma sets me off! Alcoholism is a mixed bag: part genetic, part personality characteristics ("defects"sounds too much like "bad boy"): shyness,low self confidence, risk taking, compulsive-obsessive, perfectionist), clinical dual or triple diagnostic items, like depression, bi-polar, borderline personality, and, very important- cultural setting, stability of home and neighborhood, abusive or toxic parents or siblings, college drinking or drugging
A mixed bag where dogma (there I go again) merely obscures the debate. And why indeed should there be a "debate"? The important thing is what to do about it or as the rock song used to go, "I've go to get out of this place!" Get some others in recovery, rope up and climb the mountain one step at a time. There is not one path. There are several. If it works then work it. Choose the one that's best for you. Don't look down, look to the sunny fields at the top. If you happen to fall, don't give up. Dust yourself off and pick up where you left off. Never surrender!
Forgive me, the very mention of dogma sets me off! Alcoholism is a mixed bag: part genetic, part personality characteristics ("defects"sounds too much like "bad boy"): shyness,low self confidence, risk taking, compulsive-obsessive, perfectionist), clinical dual or triple diagnostic items, like depression, bi-polar, borderline personality, and, very important- cultural setting, stability of home and neighborhood, abusive or toxic parents or siblings, college drinking or drugging
A mixed bag where dogma (there I go again) merely obscures the debate. And why indeed should there be a "debate"? The important thing is what to do about it or as the rock song used to go, "I've go to get out of this place!" Get some others in recovery, rope up and climb the mountain one step at a time. There is not one path. There are several. If it works then work it. Choose the one that's best for you. Don't look down, look to the sunny fields at the top. If you happen to fall, don't give up. Dust yourself off and pick up where you left off. Never surrender!
And for most, doing it together is one of the most helpful things. Yet knowing that there are physiological factors helps us understand how important total abstinence is, which sends us to groups, thoughts, books, etc...
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A mixed bag or a bunch of blind men groping an elephant. One an ear (its a disease!Let the docs take over), one an elephant foot (no it's "character defects"- fall on your knees and ask your higher power to "remove" them!") Another a trunk (Hey it's your AV screwing things up to bring back the booze! Ignore it!) Another the tail (It's your abusive mom or alcoholic dad! Poor you!) It's your neighborhood, your fraternity (Animal House!).
Yep, it sure is a mixed bag. But it's an elephant and it's like Nancy Sinatra used to sing: "These boots are made for walkin' and that's what they're gonna do! And one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you!"
W.
Yep, it sure is a mixed bag. But it's an elephant and it's like Nancy Sinatra used to sing: "These boots are made for walkin' and that's what they're gonna do! And one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you!"
W.
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I spend a lot of time on scholar.google.com looking up anything that runs across my mind about alcoholism and sobriety. It just helps to know. Instead of thinking, "I'm sleeping too much and having crazy dreams, what's happening," thinking about the timelines of sleep recovery helps me relax and remember to just let my body heal. Or learning that I've hit some kind of healing point -- four months is apparently when they've seen damage to the autonomic nervous system improve, which is a little above my head so far, but I'll take it! -- it makes me feel good. And just knowing as much as possible about alcoholism in general makes it more real and concrete, something that is just part of my life. Thanks for the links and recommendations all!
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Another resource I like is the video "Pleasure Unwoven", available from a big Internet retailer for about $30. It is narrated by and features an MD who is also an alcoholic. He uses western US terrain as a way of describing how addiction works. I'm not saying it is the final word - I don't think anything is - but I found it comforting and it helped me to quit beating myself up and instead focus on those things I can do to help me stay sober. I first saw this video in my IOP.
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