The Negotiator inside
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 321
The Negotiator inside
Good morning y'all!
So, I've noticed this feeling at certain times. Maybe its a craving, but I'm not sure if it's just my lack of ability to deal with uncomfortable feelings.
In the last 3 weeks (today is day 21!), I've had some moments of anger and frustration. What I've done different in the last 21 days (instead of drinking wine) is really try to analyze how I feel.
Most of these outbursts or feelings really are caused by something that's not that big a deal, and I've been able to deal with it like a somewhat reasonable person.
BUT, some I've dealt with them exactly like I would've when drinking. Go from zero to 100 on the drama scale, yell....but then catch myself and stop. I guess even this is an improvement and I will have to "practice/re-learn" how to deal with feelings sober.
The bigger thing is the residual feeling I have inside after my anger. IT IS THE EXACT FEELING THAT MADE ME POUR A GLASS OF WINE!
I can't explain the feeling, but its not so much anger.....its not my AV talking to me, because there are no words going on in my head. I literally find myself having to I actually soothe myself (for lack of a better word). I need to remind myself I'm not drinking anymore, not because I want a drink, it's like physically, my body and mind suddenly feel like I'm in that state of confusion when I was hungover.
It's a very physical feeling, not just mental. Mentally there's an immediate feeling of worthlessness, inadequacy, guilt and just a basic POS. But I can physically feel it. The "fight or flight" feeling might be a good way to describe it. It lingers for a while and doesn't go until I "talk myself down". It's like I have a "negotiator" inside of me, talking the cray cray outta me to get me off the top of the building....then all is good.
Am I nuts? Could be.....but I'm sober for 21 freakin days and I'm not stopping!
Happy Sunday y'all!
So, I've noticed this feeling at certain times. Maybe its a craving, but I'm not sure if it's just my lack of ability to deal with uncomfortable feelings.
In the last 3 weeks (today is day 21!), I've had some moments of anger and frustration. What I've done different in the last 21 days (instead of drinking wine) is really try to analyze how I feel.
Most of these outbursts or feelings really are caused by something that's not that big a deal, and I've been able to deal with it like a somewhat reasonable person.
BUT, some I've dealt with them exactly like I would've when drinking. Go from zero to 100 on the drama scale, yell....but then catch myself and stop. I guess even this is an improvement and I will have to "practice/re-learn" how to deal with feelings sober.
The bigger thing is the residual feeling I have inside after my anger. IT IS THE EXACT FEELING THAT MADE ME POUR A GLASS OF WINE!
I can't explain the feeling, but its not so much anger.....its not my AV talking to me, because there are no words going on in my head. I literally find myself having to I actually soothe myself (for lack of a better word). I need to remind myself I'm not drinking anymore, not because I want a drink, it's like physically, my body and mind suddenly feel like I'm in that state of confusion when I was hungover.
It's a very physical feeling, not just mental. Mentally there's an immediate feeling of worthlessness, inadequacy, guilt and just a basic POS. But I can physically feel it. The "fight or flight" feeling might be a good way to describe it. It lingers for a while and doesn't go until I "talk myself down". It's like I have a "negotiator" inside of me, talking the cray cray outta me to get me off the top of the building....then all is good.
Am I nuts? Could be.....but I'm sober for 21 freakin days and I'm not stopping!
Happy Sunday y'all!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,087
Not sure, but best advice I can give is regular meditation. It'll help align your body and mind into one, instead of two separate entities, which it sounds like you're battling with now.
heh, I should really take my own advice. Some of it's actually pretty decent I think.
heh, I should really take my own advice. Some of it's actually pretty decent I think.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 321
Thanks TroyW! Great advice! I think you're right, I need to get all my "personalities" working together again, if that makes sense.
I think with time, I'll get better with dealing with it and the fact I recognize it now is a big step for me. Had I been drinking, wouldn't even have been a thought.
I was "so many people" when I was drinking.....pretty much able to be whatever I had to be, depending on the people I was around. Now, without the alcohol, I'm just me and I need to find out who that really is. Physically, I think my body is just sooooooo confused.
I think with time, I'll get better with dealing with it and the fact I recognize it now is a big step for me. Had I been drinking, wouldn't even have been a thought.
I was "so many people" when I was drinking.....pretty much able to be whatever I had to be, depending on the people I was around. Now, without the alcohol, I'm just me and I need to find out who that really is. Physically, I think my body is just sooooooo confused.
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
InTheEnd Congrats on 21 days !! That's great the your working on your emotions I like this part too ....
"Am I nuts? Could be.....but I'm sober for 21 freakin days and I'm not stopping"
Well if you are - I'm right with you ! I still get them over whelming feelings of Anger for no " Real " reason . Some days my poor dog treads lightly around me
I like this part too ...."Am I nuts? Could be.....but I'm sober for 21 freakin days and I'm not stopping"
Well if you are - I'm right with you ! I still get them over whelming feelings of Anger for no " Real " reason . Some days my poor dog treads lightly around me
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
You are not nuts.
That is your brain and body reacting with out alcohol.
If you drink booze now, you will restart the cycle.
Stay clean. Eat clean. Excercise.
It got better for me, but I am still fighting w anxiety.
The anxiety is normal, I just haven't felt this clean in 20 years.
I'm not drinking today.
How to Quit Drinking without Alcoholics Anonymous: 5 Steps
That is your brain and body reacting with out alcohol.
If you drink booze now, you will restart the cycle.
Stay clean. Eat clean. Excercise.
It got better for me, but I am still fighting w anxiety.
The anxiety is normal, I just haven't felt this clean in 20 years.
I'm not drinking today.
How to Quit Drinking without Alcoholics Anonymous: 5 Steps
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
I had to come & post again after some more thought . I could be way off on your situation . None of us are the same Just wanted to say mine isn't daily -plus I'm in post - pre some thing menopause , with anxiety on top of it .
After reading your second post " InTheEnd " when I was drinking my moods were all over as was yours . I chocked that up to alcohol .
I'm a joker < sometimes too much
Nuts ? No just dealing with life Sober , it's hard - but worth it
Just wanted to say mine isn't daily -plus I'm in post - pre some thing menopause , with anxiety on top of it .After reading your second post " InTheEnd " when I was drinking my moods were all over as was yours . I chocked that up to alcohol .
I'm a joker < sometimes too much
Nuts ? No just dealing with life Sober , it's hard - but worth it
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
I know that feeling. For me, it felt like a rush, an explosion was about to happen...and the only relief would be to have alcohol (or so my mind would tell me).
Unfortunately, that is part of the cycle alcohol traps us in, the feeling of being helpless against drama. Over time, you learn to identify those feelings and they become more manageable.
Our addiction plays many tricks on our physiology, to make us seek out relief.
21 days is awesome. You can beat this game your mind is playing.
Unfortunately, that is part of the cycle alcohol traps us in, the feeling of being helpless against drama. Over time, you learn to identify those feelings and they become more manageable.
Our addiction plays many tricks on our physiology, to make us seek out relief.
21 days is awesome. You can beat this game your mind is playing.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 321
Thanks NWE, D122y and Croissant! It makes me feel like I'm still active in my drinking......I have to remind myself I haven't had a drink in 3 weeks. And yes Croissant, an "explosion" was about to happen.....good way to put it.
Maybe these are just "real" feelings and I've got to learn how to deal with them as a sober person? I've been drinking for so many years, I wouldn't know a true feeling if it slapped me in the face!
And as for the physical part, well....I wouldn't have allowed that feeling for more then 5 minutes before thinking "I need a drink"! Now that the option of having a drink to deal is off the table....that time is spent calming myself down to rational behavior and working through it.
It just is such a scary feeling, not in control. There is a quote from the movie "28 Days" which has always stuck in my head....
"And I'd get that feeling and you all know what that feeling is; when your skin is screaming and your hands are shaking and your stomach feels like it wants to jump through your throat. And you know that if anyone had a clue how wrong it felt to be sober, they wouldn't dream of asking you to stay that way. They would say oh geez, I didn't know. It's okay for you. Have a drink. Have 20 drinks. Whatever you need to do to feel like a normal human being, you do it."
The feeling I have is not as intense as his quote, but sorta makes sense as to what I feel during this time. Its not about withdrawal because I'm passed that.....but it's like that awful, dirty feeling I had when I was drinking that I need to shake off.
Maybe these are just "real" feelings and I've got to learn how to deal with them as a sober person? I've been drinking for so many years, I wouldn't know a true feeling if it slapped me in the face!
And as for the physical part, well....I wouldn't have allowed that feeling for more then 5 minutes before thinking "I need a drink"! Now that the option of having a drink to deal is off the table....that time is spent calming myself down to rational behavior and working through it.
It just is such a scary feeling, not in control. There is a quote from the movie "28 Days" which has always stuck in my head....
"And I'd get that feeling and you all know what that feeling is; when your skin is screaming and your hands are shaking and your stomach feels like it wants to jump through your throat. And you know that if anyone had a clue how wrong it felt to be sober, they wouldn't dream of asking you to stay that way. They would say oh geez, I didn't know. It's okay for you. Have a drink. Have 20 drinks. Whatever you need to do to feel like a normal human being, you do it."
The feeling I have is not as intense as his quote, but sorta makes sense as to what I feel during this time. Its not about withdrawal because I'm passed that.....but it's like that awful, dirty feeling I had when I was drinking that I need to shake off.
Guest
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,086
There's such great advice on this thread!
I make time twice a day to meditate. Only for 10
minutes or so but it seems to keep me together. By that I mean that I'm all over the place in sobriety and meditation seems to address that!
I make time twice a day to meditate. Only for 10
minutes or so but it seems to keep me together. By that I mean that I'm all over the place in sobriety and meditation seems to address that!
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 1,042
21 days is great. "That awful dirty feeling", I really relate to that! That's just how I felt most of the time (maybe all the time), I would do the house work with my awful hangover, to make myself feel cleaner somehow. I've not heard anybody else describe it that way before, but it really fits.
I don't feel dirty anymore, I hope I never do and I hope the same for you. feelings even out after a while.
Be well x
I don't feel dirty anymore, I hope I never do and I hope the same for you. feelings even out after a while.
Be well x
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
In the AA that feeling I believe you're referring to is spoken about in the Doctors Opinion as being 'restless; irritable; and discontented'. Our alcoholic voices can take these feelings and whip us up into quite a frenzy of inner rage and turmoil. Esp in early sobriety. Stick with it...
Excerpts from "The Doctor's Opinion":
"Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.
On the other hand and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand, once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules."
"There are many situations which arise out of the phenomenon of craving which cause men to make the supreme sacrifice rather than continue to fight. The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are all familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps." They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision. There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.
Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. They are often able, intelligent, friendly people. All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence."
Excerpts from "The Doctor's Opinion":
"Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.
On the other hand and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand, once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules."
"There are many situations which arise out of the phenomenon of craving which cause men to make the supreme sacrifice rather than continue to fight. The classification of alcoholics seems most difficult, and in much detail is outside the scope of this book. There are, of course, the psychopaths who are emotionally unstable. We are all familiar with this type. They are always "going on the wagon for keeps." They are over-remorseful and make many resolutions, but never a decision. There is the type of man who is unwilling to admit that he cannot take a drink. He plans various ways of drinking. He changes his brand or his environment. There is the type who always believes that after being entirely free from alcohol for a period of time he can take a drink without danger. There is the manic-depressive type, who is, perhaps, the least understood by his friends, and about whom a whole chapter could be written.
Then there are types entirely normal in every respect except in the effect alcohol has upon them. They are often able, intelligent, friendly people. All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest is entire abstinence."
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 321
It's a strange description FarToGo, but it is how I felt after drinking the night before.....dirty, or maybe polluted is a better word? Just a gross feeling to add to the already hungover feeling I had.
Now when I get angry or frustrated, thats the feeling that I get even though sober. I don't like the feeling, but in some weird way because I'm sober and feeling it, it's helping me hate everything about alcohol.....which I truly do. Now that I'm out of the fog and haze that alcohol caused on a daily basis, I'm starting to see it as what it really was, the enemy. It's like a toxic person in your life who you know is bad for you, but you let them keep coming back in, hoping that they've changed and it will work this time. Alcohol has been that "person" to me for years.....charming and seductive at first. Promising you it will be different this time, and then BAM! You're on the floor crying, wondering how you got yourself into this mess again.
Not this time....
Now when I get angry or frustrated, thats the feeling that I get even though sober. I don't like the feeling, but in some weird way because I'm sober and feeling it, it's helping me hate everything about alcohol.....which I truly do. Now that I'm out of the fog and haze that alcohol caused on a daily basis, I'm starting to see it as what it really was, the enemy. It's like a toxic person in your life who you know is bad for you, but you let them keep coming back in, hoping that they've changed and it will work this time. Alcohol has been that "person" to me for years.....charming and seductive at first. Promising you it will be different this time, and then BAM! You're on the floor crying, wondering how you got yourself into this mess again.
Not this time....
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 1,042
Yes! Like a very bad relationship you struggle with all your might to get out of, and I've been in quite a few of those too! I think this sort of thing is covered a bit in "The Sober Revolution", a very good book for women wanting to get sober, maybe a personality thing, maybe not.
The main thing is we are tackling this enemy head on and getting somewhere too.
Stay strong, stay sober.
x
The main thing is we are tackling this enemy head on and getting somewhere too.
Stay strong, stay sober.
x
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