RunningAway

I think your first statement is a fair assessment doggonecarl.

It's the second statement that is the crux of my issue. How do you know that? How can you be sure that until I accept that I can never drink again that I will struggle with sobriety?

Not trying to be an ass but sure that would apply for one who IS an alcoholic. But do you think everyone on this forum is an alcoholic? Or do some people abuse alcohol for whatever reason, and then learn to control it?

I realize this is a losing argument on this forum so I'll stop here but you get the point of my line of thinking.

bookmaven

Alcohol is a highly addictive drug.

Would you tell a heroin addict that continuing to use heroin in moderation is a good idea?

Would you tell a meth addict it's ok to keep smoking crystal meth as long as they only stick to one bump a day?

No that would be absurd. No one in their right mind would ever suggest that cutting down on an addictive substance is acceptable.

2muchpain

It seems that one common theme here with most people is that they fight and fight and fight to find some way to be able to control their drinking. It's just amazing how much pain someone (including me), will put themselves through just to be able to have a beer or drink now and then. It's pretty crazy when you think about it.
IMO, I think it's great that you're posting here and hope you continue to do so along with reading others' posts. It will give you a foundation to work from if/when you decide to totally quit. John

2muchpain

RunningAway
I don't think your trying to argue anything. You brought up a legitimate question; one most of us have asked.
As far as whether you are an alcoholic or not, that's really a personal decision. Keep reading others' posts and see if you can relate to them. I know I didn't just wake up one day and say to myself, I'm an alcoholic. It took time and a lot of tough times to get there. Like I said before, I hope you keep posting, and try not to take other posts personally. People are just trying to help. John

ScottFromWI

You simply have to accept it. For me I attempted to "moderate" my drinking for years. I failed every time. Each time I returned to drinking the return to every day binge drinking happened faster, and the withdrawals were worse. At the very end I would go immediately into withdrawals every day if I didn't drink. Only you can decide though...there is no simple "test" that can tell you if you are an alchoholic or not.

Some people have to wait until they lose their jobs, family, health, some even lose their lives. I was fortunate to keep most of those things intact ( barely ) when I finally quit for good.

LBrain

ho boy... I'd like to say you are comparing apples to oranges. But you are not. You are comparing grains of sand to glaciers.

Here's what I do know. Having been on this site for only 15 months, I certainly am not qualified to state how long it takes before one comes to the conclusion that they will never be able to moderate.
But in that 15 months - heck in the first month - I have read enough anecdotal evidence from others who have come here long before I have that says to me it is futile for someone like like me to even attempt it. Maybe there is someone who is still holding out after 40 years of trying to moderate that is still getting wasted every day hoping next week they will be able to drink normally. I don't know.

And there are just as many who have been sober for a period of time who thought they would give it a go and discovered that they were right back where they were or worse than when they decided to quit the last time.

If 1000 people told you that if you leave a loaf of bread on your counter for three weeks it will get moldy would you believe them? Then you leave a loaf of bread on your counter and discover that in fact it did get moldy after three weeks. But would you continue to leave a loaf of bread out for three weeks for the next five years hoping that one of these days it won't get moldy any more?

That's about the best analogy I can come up with right now.

Don't think your bread is superior to anyone else' bread.

I for one believe those who came before me that I would be foolish to think I could drink responsibly again.

And if you know you need to but the timing is wrong... huh?
Seriously think about that statement for a minute. Thinking like that, the time will never arrive before it's too late.

The only best time to quit drinking is now.

ardy

Welcome to SR ,, I think we all have our own short falls and in the end of the have to look in the mirror and see if we fit what we have looked at.. read tap into the conversation and hold tight this will be a bumpy ride.. but well worth the effort and the company.. prayers from wisconsin

MelindaFlowers

I was really hoping I'd learn to moderate my drinking and skip all this recovery stuff.

The problem was that I'd always drink more than I planned and the same bad consequences kept happening again and again.

I really tried though.

I'm not being Pollyanna-ish when I say that abstinence is actually easier than trying to moderate my drinking. I used to not think this but now that I've been sober for about a year it is true. Alcohol was bringing a lot of stress into my life. Now it's not.

It's nice that alcohol is no longer a part of any equation. It is not some puzzle have to figure out over and over again. Alcohol is simply nothing in my life now.

I've got enough to worry about with bills, going to work every day, cleaning the house. I don't have a time to worry about alcohol anymore.

Dee74

How long have you been trying to control your drinking?

D

letitgo

Running, great post honestly. I have been there to. Don't want the tag of an alchi. Don't want to think about quitting drinking forever.
Isnt it just possible to moderate?
For some I think yes.
For those that have had nights that were lost (way beyond controlling reality and/or ceasing alcohol usage when it was apparent they had enough/ it was negatively affecting their lives and found this place as a result no.

I have been down that road and it lead me back here. If you want to moderate then I hope it works.

If you end up back here please know there is no shame or I told you so. For many of use we tried and failed at moderation. Always going back to drinking in full force. You have to be ready to make a change also. It does not sound like you are ready to give it up.

I just want you to know Sr is a great tool and here regardless for support. I wish you well.

Upwardspiral

Like Melinda, I just accepted that for me it is easier to put it on the table and pronounce alcohol as dead to me. I stressed and fixated so much while trying to moderate.
Alcohol seems like a big deal when you're all wrapped up in it, but really plenty of people live full, fun, complex amazing lives without it. It's not essential, if it's causing so much tribulation cut your losses and leave it. Is it really worth it to prove to yourself that you can moderate? Does alcohol really make anyone happy? Stick around and find out

fini

how does one really truly know that they have to go to total abstinence and control is not an option?

RunningAway; hm...interesting name you chose here. "Freud" would have a field day

i don't know how "one" really truly knows; i know how i knew, really and truly deep down:
thirty years of off-and-on attempts to control which always ended in failure. when i say failure, i'm talking about going back to drinking even though i had absolutely committed and decided to never ever drink again.
so i'm not talking about losing control after the first one or two drinks; i'm talking about what in AA is termed losing the power of choice.
running away...yep; ran away plenty from facing that i couldn't control.

How can you be sure that until I accept that I can never drink again that I will struggle with sobriety?

i, for one, can't be sure of that about you.

i am sure of it about me.
it's been a blessing.
being sober and not questioning the need for it has meant an end to that struggle for control.
not an end in resignation, but a freedom from constant war with myself.

as far as whether talk of moderation or conyinued attempts to control is welcome...seems pointless on this site. it's "academic" for most of us.
or, to put it differently and as someone already said: i'd have nothing supportive to add to your journey.
and yes, i do wish you well.
very much so.

mystified

What about today?

I think everyone on this forum is an addict or loves someone who is.

My doc was alcohol. And while I don't want to believe I'm an 'alcoholic', I'd rather go through life sober believing I'm an alcoholic than go through life drunk trying to convince myself I'm not.

Your posts make me wonder why you aren't listening to your body. You talk about not being able to drink as much as others and 2-3 day long, can't-get-out-of-bed hangovers as a huge inconvenience.

I wish you well regardless of what you decide.

MelindaFlowers

This hits it right on the nose. After a year or so you start to wonder why you even drank in the first place. You see it for what it is and see that it really wasn't helping you relax. Actually, the thought of drinking now kinda makes me sick to think about.

If you asked me who's having more fun?

Person A: They are at home watching youtube videos on a Friday night and they're on their 8th of 12 beers. At the time they are having a great time but they did post some stuff on Facebook that they will erase in the morning. They also sent a few emails they don't remember. They will spend the day hungover on the couch and will start drinking again at 5 when they go to a party. They say offensive things thinking they are funny at the time but when they wake up the next morning they are ridden with shame and guilt. They are rattled with anxiety about those 2 am texts they sent to their ex-girlfiend. Sunday night they'll drink at home and relax and hopefully forget about their behavior at the party. Once they get the buzz going they're not worried about it anymore. They will go to work hungover on Monday. Person A thinks they are having more fun than Person B.

Person B: They are at home watching a movie on the couch and browsing Amazon on their ipad. They are meeting a friend for breakfast tomorrow. Then they will go back to school shopping. They are going to the same party tomorrow night but drink a soda. They wake up Sunday morning and do their weekly chores. They wash the car and walk the dog. They go to work Monday feeling just fine and rested. Person B doesn't think about whether they are having more or less fun than person A. They are just living their life doing normal stuff.

Person B is how everybody I know spends their weekends. Person A used to be me. Now I am person B.

I think person B is having more fun.

Venecia

Lots of wise people here on SR, including -- yet again! -- Melinda. I love the Person A/Person B scenario.

Another wise fellow journeyer, one of my classmates, once described his sobriety as the relief he found after bringing "my 30-year failed experiment in moderation to an end." I thought that was one of the insightful comments I've ever seen here. And that's saying something.

Venecia

Quick edit: Above, I meant to describe my classmate's observation as one of the most insightful I'd seen here.

MelindaFlowers

These are excellent questions. Why are we here and are we all here for the same reason?

But do you think everyone on this forum is an alcoholic?

I would say absolutely, yes. If I were to give a timeline to my own drinking, let's say 1 is when I took my first drink and 10 is when I crashed and burned into serious alcoholism, I didn't join this site until I was probably an 8-9. Nobody finds this website by mistake. I'd bet that many of us joined somewhat reluctantly. I feel that most of us here were pretty far down the road of alcoholism or alcohol abuse (potato/po-tah-to) when we googled for recovery forums, signed up, and logged in.

And to the second question, yes, we are all here for the same reason. We maybe had different lengths of time and habits etc. but alcohol was bringing danger and destruction to our lives.

And why did I progress from 8 when I joined this site to a 10 when I finally stopped drinking alcohol? Please pardon the caps......(cover your ears).....

I KEPT TRYING TO MODERATE MY DRINKING.

Delfin

Look what I found-it's gold! Right here in this thread.

Go on, Melinda, keep shouting the truth. It will help drown out the little voice in my head that says,"maybe one day" Ah, the siren's song of moderation. (We all know what happened to the ones who listened to that song).

Delfin

Croissant

I haven't read one of these types of threads for a while, and Running Away....don't ever hesitate on asking questions.

I read the link to your original post that Scott mentioned. I think all of us can relate to those feelings and being that person.

Before I had a problem with drinking, if someone had said I could never drink alcohol again, I'd have been ok with that. When you are a problem drinker, the thought of stopping grips you with fear, your Addictive Voice (AV), throws up every reason why you can have a drink. A million reasons.

Eventually I accepted that every single time I drank, I felt like a rat trapped on a terminally spinning wheel that I couldn't get off.

By not drinking, I've had to fill that empty space with other things, but eventually you get your life back and realise that not drinking is much, much easier and rewarding than drinking could ever be. It takes time, and I never believed it could happen for me to feel that way, but I really do.

Agree completely, Anna. It was the saddest and most difficult thing I felt I ever had to do.

Understanding how my addictive brain was lying to me through Euphoric Recall, really helped me understand the apparent "logic" of how our brain tries to trick us into minimising the issues alcohol cause for us.
http://www.tgorski.com/gorski_articl...s%20010506.htm

1newcreation

Welcome RA
Btw excellent answer book! The way I look @ it is simple-never drinking again or abstaining forever is mindbogling so I say(not now but beginning of recovery) might drink for eg Labor Day or thxgvg or my 3rd birthday on 27th this mth(pwahaha) BUT just for today I won't pick up a drink!
We alkys luv to complicate things but it's not if put it into perspective & work w/ like minded people
Best wishes