Dealing With Shame
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Dealing With Shame
Dealing with Shame
Alcoholism seems to differ from other illnesses in its historic links with shame. For centuries “drunks” have been looked down on as somehow “bad”, morally corrupt, irresponsible, selfish, lying sinners. “Drunkenness” has been viewed as even more despicable than greed, gluttony, lust and the other “seven deadly sins”. How often have we heard someone say, “He has only himself to blame! He brought all that on himself. He is a disappointment and a disgrace to his wife and children!”
“Drunkenness” does involve a matter of volition. No one compels an alcoholic to take a drink. Is it then like diabetes, where a person must avoid excessive sugar? Have you ever heard someone say of a diabetic, “He’s an evil person, sugared himself to death! A disgrace to his whole family!” Or if a person had a serious allergy to certain kinds of shellfish would someone say, “That greedy man lobstered himself to death! For shame!”
No. An excessive love of sugar or lobsters is more often considered a misfortune rather than a sinful self affliction. An alcoholic, unless he “gets a grip on himself” is thought of as ending in the gutter, just where he belongs, what he deserves because of his “character defects” which, beyond his control, he should have prayed to have “removed” in humble surrender with great humility.
Finally, what about cancer, another notorious killer? Certainly there are those who may have brought on lung cancer by smoking but even these are not likely to be disparaged like the way alcoholics are often looked down upon. I had a friend who pretty much smoked himself to death yet fifty or sixty people showed up at his funeral. Would the same have happened if at some late hour he had killed himself by driving, intoxicated, into a tree on some lonely road? Is it more likely that folks would say, “He always was a drunk. Lucky he didn’t kill someone else!”
What can alcoholics do about shame if it interferes with complete recovery? One thing seems clear to me. And that is not to fall for my AV which likes to say, “Poor you! No one understands. Makes you feel pretty low, pretty lonely. One stiff drink might help. Make you feel a little better. Maybe make some friends at the bar, talk to the bartender. Cheers!” Try to leave shame behind. When you give up alcohol, give up shame. For once, don’t dwell on what others think, or what you think they think. I had to learn to give myself a break. Give myself something I never had, true sobriety, happiness. Let others think what they will. They won’t stop me from reaching for the sunlight.
W.
Alcoholism seems to differ from other illnesses in its historic links with shame. For centuries “drunks” have been looked down on as somehow “bad”, morally corrupt, irresponsible, selfish, lying sinners. “Drunkenness” has been viewed as even more despicable than greed, gluttony, lust and the other “seven deadly sins”. How often have we heard someone say, “He has only himself to blame! He brought all that on himself. He is a disappointment and a disgrace to his wife and children!”
“Drunkenness” does involve a matter of volition. No one compels an alcoholic to take a drink. Is it then like diabetes, where a person must avoid excessive sugar? Have you ever heard someone say of a diabetic, “He’s an evil person, sugared himself to death! A disgrace to his whole family!” Or if a person had a serious allergy to certain kinds of shellfish would someone say, “That greedy man lobstered himself to death! For shame!”
No. An excessive love of sugar or lobsters is more often considered a misfortune rather than a sinful self affliction. An alcoholic, unless he “gets a grip on himself” is thought of as ending in the gutter, just where he belongs, what he deserves because of his “character defects” which, beyond his control, he should have prayed to have “removed” in humble surrender with great humility.
Finally, what about cancer, another notorious killer? Certainly there are those who may have brought on lung cancer by smoking but even these are not likely to be disparaged like the way alcoholics are often looked down upon. I had a friend who pretty much smoked himself to death yet fifty or sixty people showed up at his funeral. Would the same have happened if at some late hour he had killed himself by driving, intoxicated, into a tree on some lonely road? Is it more likely that folks would say, “He always was a drunk. Lucky he didn’t kill someone else!”
What can alcoholics do about shame if it interferes with complete recovery? One thing seems clear to me. And that is not to fall for my AV which likes to say, “Poor you! No one understands. Makes you feel pretty low, pretty lonely. One stiff drink might help. Make you feel a little better. Maybe make some friends at the bar, talk to the bartender. Cheers!” Try to leave shame behind. When you give up alcohol, give up shame. For once, don’t dwell on what others think, or what you think they think. I had to learn to give myself a break. Give myself something I never had, true sobriety, happiness. Let others think what they will. They won’t stop me from reaching for the sunlight.
W.
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Originally Posted by Serenidad 
Thank you for that Painter! Shame was a huge stumbling block for me for a long time! I really needed to read that today, especially the last part. :-)
That's quite enough from you, AV.! Cool it! Back in your cage! In the Middle Ages they'd put an offender into an "oubliette" (which means a place where a person is ignored or even forgotten). That's where you are now, AV!
W
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Thank you for posting this wpainterw, it was exactly what I needed to hear today. I have been feeling sorry for myself lately because my siblings do not understand alcoholism and treat me as if I am a bad person. After reading your post I started to wonder if it is more of "what I think they think" than what they actually think. Either way it was good to have a reminder to let it go. It still makes me sad that we are not as close as we used to be however I can't control what they do - all I can do is stay sober and keep doing the next right thing.
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Thanks for sharing this, wpainterw. I think you're right - there are deep connections between drinking and shame, in a lot of ways. Alcoholics experience this culturally, but I think many of us struggled with it before we started drinking, too. I definitely started and (continued) to drink as a way to outrun my shame - and we all know how well that works...
I think giving up my addiction to shame, pity and self-centeredness has been just a big a part of giving up my addiction to alcohol itself. In the end they all felt like companions and it was difficult to imagine life without them. I'm hardly free from it yet, but it's good to know that it is at least an option.
I think giving up my addiction to shame, pity and self-centeredness has been just a big a part of giving up my addiction to alcohol itself. In the end they all felt like companions and it was difficult to imagine life without them. I'm hardly free from it yet, but it's good to know that it is at least an option.
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Thanks for all your nice replies. What continues to intrigue me is how complex alcoholism is, having many sources, like a river with many tributaries: genetic, cultural, biophysical, chemical, neurological, volitional, etc. etc. Understanding it is a little like the blind men with the elephant, one grasping the ear and saying the beast is a large banana leaf, another a leg and saying the beast is a like a tree, another the trunk and thinking it more like a snake. Yet the elephant is all of that and more. And, despite its complexity, what to do about it can be more simply said: don't drink, seek professional advice, help from other recovering alcoholics, and eventually learn that the best way to help oneself is to try to help others, without falling into the denial of thinking that you're O.K. and that it's only the others who need help.
W.
W.
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Originally Posted by wpainterw
Thanks for all your nice replies. What continues to intrigue me is how complex alcoholism is, having many sources, like a river with many tributaries: genetic, cultural, biophysical, chemical, neurological, volitional, etc. etc. Understanding it is a little like the blind men with the elephant, one grasping the ear and saying the beast is a large banana leaf, another a leg and saying the beast is a like a tree, another the trunk and thinking it more like a snake. Yet the elephant is all of that and more. And, despite its complexity, what to do about it can be more simply said: don't drink, seek professional advice, help from other recovering alcoholics, and eventually learn that the best way to help oneself is to try to help others, without falling into the denial of thinking that you're O.K. and that it's only the others who need help.
W.
W.
I am copying what you said here about the complexity of alcoholism. I will be referring to it if any teachable moments present themselves.
The shame that goes along with this disease or illness (or whatever we label it) is so debilitating and can keep us in an endless loop of drink, shame, drink to ease shame, worse shame and around we go.
As we recover we need to be so vigilant against the AV trying to shame us into drinking and keeping us stuck in our disease.
We need to beat that so and so (family site!) AV down
and keep beating it down. As often and as long as we need to. Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I had to deal with my past but refuse to "sit in it". We must forgive ourselves and others - we are only human.
“Chronic remorse, as all the moralists are agreed, is a most undesirable sentiment. If you have behaved badly, repent, make what amends you can and address yourself to the task of behaving better next time. On no account brood over your wrongdoing. Rolling in the muck is not the best way of getting clean.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
“Chronic remorse, as all the moralists are agreed, is a most undesirable sentiment. If you have behaved badly, repent, make what amends you can and address yourself to the task of behaving better next time. On no account brood over your wrongdoing. Rolling in the muck is not the best way of getting clean.”
― Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
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The difference is that if somebody is diabetic they usually take responsibility for it and take their insuline. If somebody is alergic to shellfish, they usually don't cry about it and go to a restaurant and eat lobster after lobster.......so in no circumstance would somebody say "he lobstered himself to death..."
....and yes people usually react that way to drunk drivers as drunk drivers have taken the lives of countless innocent people. Drunk drivers destroy lives and should never be given an ounce of pity.
If alcoholism was an illness like diabetes, your doctor would tell you that you have alcoholism and you need to not consume it, you would then not consume it and problem solved. But it's not an illness, it's a drug addiction. Alcohol is a drug. A socially acceptable drug and a taxable drug, so the illness debate keeps you blind to that fact.
Do heroin addicts have an illness? Or is it drug addiction?
What about crack heads? Illness? Or drug addiction?
these are not socially acceptable or taxable drugs so we look at them for what they are: drugs.
IMO I think it's highly irresponsible to class alcohol addiction in the same cathegory as actual medical illnesses. It gives people an easy excuse "Im not responsible, it's my illness".
This post makes me think of the drunk I had for a father. A violent drunk who wrecked lives. A drunk who NEVER, and I mean NEVER had any desire to quit alcohol. He lives alone and he'll die alone and in a weird way....he's fine with that. But to put him in the same cathogory as an aunt of mine who lived a remarkable life and is now suffering the result of an actual illness......is a little bit sickening.
Shame and guilt come from when you have a belief about something and your actions don't match that belief. You can't change your actions from the past but you can change your belief. Once your taking responsibility for your actions now.
If other people are shaming you that's an entirley different matter. If toxic people shame you, you have to ask why you give value to the opinion of toxic peope.
Look up toxic shame.
....and yes people usually react that way to drunk drivers as drunk drivers have taken the lives of countless innocent people. Drunk drivers destroy lives and should never be given an ounce of pity.
If alcoholism was an illness like diabetes, your doctor would tell you that you have alcoholism and you need to not consume it, you would then not consume it and problem solved. But it's not an illness, it's a drug addiction. Alcohol is a drug. A socially acceptable drug and a taxable drug, so the illness debate keeps you blind to that fact.
Do heroin addicts have an illness? Or is it drug addiction?
What about crack heads? Illness? Or drug addiction?
these are not socially acceptable or taxable drugs so we look at them for what they are: drugs.
IMO I think it's highly irresponsible to class alcohol addiction in the same cathegory as actual medical illnesses. It gives people an easy excuse "Im not responsible, it's my illness".
This post makes me think of the drunk I had for a father. A violent drunk who wrecked lives. A drunk who NEVER, and I mean NEVER had any desire to quit alcohol. He lives alone and he'll die alone and in a weird way....he's fine with that. But to put him in the same cathogory as an aunt of mine who lived a remarkable life and is now suffering the result of an actual illness......is a little bit sickening.
Shame and guilt come from when you have a belief about something and your actions don't match that belief. You can't change your actions from the past but you can change your belief. Once your taking responsibility for your actions now.
If other people are shaming you that's an entirley different matter. If toxic people shame you, you have to ask why you give value to the opinion of toxic peope.
Look up toxic shame.
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I see addiction to mind altering substances as a sickness in the sense that there might be pre-dereliction to it genetically, a physiological change in brain chemistry and a sickness of the soul.
I have some friends who are addicted to eating (obese) and have health related problems as they get older. But their personalities are the same whether or not they binge eat. They do have some shame, though, and try to eat better. Another friend who has high blood pressure and she liberally salts everything though she knows she's not supposed to. However, she's a great person to be around. They lead pretty normal lives and no one is damaged by any volatile or changing behaviors.
I know of 2 people (a former spouse of a friend and a brother of a friend) who are addicted to gambling. That's probably the closest to the awful damage that drinking can bring to a family that I've seen. Some of the things they did -- stole from their family, threatened family members' lives, burned down the family home to try to collect insurance money (a fail), stole from others, ruined their own lives and livelihood, hiding their habit, personality changing from nice to violent in an instant, caring more about their habit than their families. No substance abuse though.
I'm just saying it's complicated. Not quite cut and dry comparing it to an illness like diabetes.
Not that it matters to a huge degree. It is shameful, and I think it's OK to be ashamed to the point of wanting and making a change to become sober. If someone shamed me, I'd just say they're right, but I'm sober now and it's behind me.
I have some friends who are addicted to eating (obese) and have health related problems as they get older. But their personalities are the same whether or not they binge eat. They do have some shame, though, and try to eat better. Another friend who has high blood pressure and she liberally salts everything though she knows she's not supposed to. However, she's a great person to be around. They lead pretty normal lives and no one is damaged by any volatile or changing behaviors.
I know of 2 people (a former spouse of a friend and a brother of a friend) who are addicted to gambling. That's probably the closest to the awful damage that drinking can bring to a family that I've seen. Some of the things they did -- stole from their family, threatened family members' lives, burned down the family home to try to collect insurance money (a fail), stole from others, ruined their own lives and livelihood, hiding their habit, personality changing from nice to violent in an instant, caring more about their habit than their families. No substance abuse though.
I'm just saying it's complicated. Not quite cut and dry comparing it to an illness like diabetes.
Not that it matters to a huge degree. It is shameful, and I think it's OK to be ashamed to the point of wanting and making a change to become sober. If someone shamed me, I'd just say they're right, but I'm sober now and it's behind me.
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Kery James wrote: "Do heroin addicts have an illness? Or is it drug addiction?
What about crack heads? Illness? Or drug addiction?"
I'm sorry but it does not seem that simple to me. Is there a sharp line between an "addiction" and an "illness" ? Or might an "addiction" be an "illness", albeit of a particular type. Syphilis is an "illness". Although a person may be born with syphilis it is more often contracted by intercourse with someone who is infected. This may well happen outside the marriage bond. Like heroin consumption it is frowned on by society, And rightly so. The same is so with heroin, consumed for the purpose of getting a pleasurable "buzz". But morphine addiction may result from pain prescriptions given in the hospital. I was prescribed oxycodone for pain and sleep after a "noninvasive" heart valve replacement in a very reputable metropolitan hospital. Prolonged hospital stays may result in an "addiction", which can be medically treated. A baby may be born with an addiction and this not a result of "bad" behavior by the baby.
So to me at least it's just not that simple, this supposed argument between those who have the "addiction" theory and the "illness" theory. Once one becomes ill as a result of the body's addiction the person, to continue in recovery, should take responsibility for himself/herself. Follow medical directions, seek help from other recovering alcoholics, help other recovering alcoholics, work hard to put "shame" behind and work on self forgiveness, apologies to those who may have been harmed unless doing so would harm them further. No black and white approach seems entirely accurate and fitting to all circumstances. That doesn't mean that we cannot agree on what can be done to get into recovery. Surely no one recommends that an "addicted" person is going to get well by remaining passive and saying, "Cure me, doctor. Just like mumps and measles. i'll sit here and you cure me. If I don't get well I guess you haven't done your job right." Whatever is the "explanation" for this the person in recovery has a job to do. It's a hard job, takes lots of patience, lots of guts, lots of time. But it can lead to the sunlight. And the other way leads to darkness, unhappiness and, eventually a painful death.
W.
What about crack heads? Illness? Or drug addiction?"
I'm sorry but it does not seem that simple to me. Is there a sharp line between an "addiction" and an "illness" ? Or might an "addiction" be an "illness", albeit of a particular type. Syphilis is an "illness". Although a person may be born with syphilis it is more often contracted by intercourse with someone who is infected. This may well happen outside the marriage bond. Like heroin consumption it is frowned on by society, And rightly so. The same is so with heroin, consumed for the purpose of getting a pleasurable "buzz". But morphine addiction may result from pain prescriptions given in the hospital. I was prescribed oxycodone for pain and sleep after a "noninvasive" heart valve replacement in a very reputable metropolitan hospital. Prolonged hospital stays may result in an "addiction", which can be medically treated. A baby may be born with an addiction and this not a result of "bad" behavior by the baby.
So to me at least it's just not that simple, this supposed argument between those who have the "addiction" theory and the "illness" theory. Once one becomes ill as a result of the body's addiction the person, to continue in recovery, should take responsibility for himself/herself. Follow medical directions, seek help from other recovering alcoholics, help other recovering alcoholics, work hard to put "shame" behind and work on self forgiveness, apologies to those who may have been harmed unless doing so would harm them further. No black and white approach seems entirely accurate and fitting to all circumstances. That doesn't mean that we cannot agree on what can be done to get into recovery. Surely no one recommends that an "addicted" person is going to get well by remaining passive and saying, "Cure me, doctor. Just like mumps and measles. i'll sit here and you cure me. If I don't get well I guess you haven't done your job right." Whatever is the "explanation" for this the person in recovery has a job to do. It's a hard job, takes lots of patience, lots of guts, lots of time. But it can lead to the sunlight. And the other way leads to darkness, unhappiness and, eventually a painful death.
W.
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This is a great thread. For me, shame can play a large role in losing that motivation to quit. This has happened to me many times. "Poor me, pour me another drink".
Last night it was pointed out to me I'm somewhat of a nihilist. IOW, the attitude creeps in of "Who cares, you're an alcoholic, just drink. Life is too hard without it. Nothing matters." I'm sure this is based some way in shame. I'm glad this was pointed out, because I think self-awareness is one of the biggest tools we can use to fight these obstacles.
Last night it was pointed out to me I'm somewhat of a nihilist. IOW, the attitude creeps in of "Who cares, you're an alcoholic, just drink. Life is too hard without it. Nothing matters." I'm sure this is based some way in shame. I'm glad this was pointed out, because I think self-awareness is one of the biggest tools we can use to fight these obstacles.
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