Venecia

The problem with delaying sobriety is that folks like us can always find new reasons to delay it. God knows I did.

Everyone else will be drinking. Will they be overdrinking? Sometimes it seems like getting drunk is the norm until we step back and realize that others can have one or two -- or they don't drink at all -- while we're the ones for whom a few is never enough. If you're with a group in which the drinking isn't excessive, it may well be much easier for you to pass altogether on alcohol.

If there's going to be heavy drinking in your group, rethink this as a "must-go" time. You do have options. Take a pass on the camping trip this year. Schedule something else during the weekends -- maybe a sober camping trip on your own.

thomas11

I tend to agree with what many others have already said. Labels and/or categories ultimately don't matter. If you believe you have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, its a good idea to try and figure it out. The fact that you took the steps to become a member of an alcohol recovery website is probably all the proof you need? Wishing you the very best.

NoelleR

Ah, how very Rod Stewart/Faces--Ooh La La,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

(o:
NoelleR

Dee74

welcome saviour and Joieetrem9481
D

FrankLapidas

Yes.

I've read and studied so much about alcohol that I could probably get a Booze PhD. By many/most definitions I was a binge drinker, at least until a couple of years ago. By all definitions I'm an alcoholic now. Alcohol was my gateway drug to alcohol. But as Thomas said, labels don't matter.

thomas11

" Alcohol was my gateway drug to alcohol.".....its probably not funny, but this made me laugh. Because its painfully true for so many.

MelindaFlowers

Hey Sneeker,

This line really jumped out at me. This was me too. There was no such thing as one. It was different kind of craving than food, let's say. It was a powerful craving that took over and I was on autopilot to keep drinking until I really couldn't drink anymore that night.

Whatever plans of moderation I came up with I failed every time.

It was because of this craving that I knew I had to stop drinking altogether. And also because of this craving, stopping made me happier than trying to control it, which I never did anyways.

The negative consequences kept getting larger and larger too. I could not longer lead a productive life when alcohol was in the equation.

dwtbd

Ok there are sometimes when it clicks and I just "get" this place. When I read various posters and can so identify with what is said , realize they get/feel/ have felt it too, and in that sense know at least a part of me , and I , them.
Starting to get the sentiment behind "thanks for sharing" , huh whodathunk, growth ?
Thanks for sharing guys(gals)

notgonnastoptry

A few things. Firstly, I agree on many account with MF. I could not lead a productive life. I would describe myself as a cat who was going in and out of naps all day and was barely functioning at the end. During my not-so-heavy drinking phases, a few cups of wine would make cleaning enjoyable. I'd be slightly buzzed, get a few tasks done, and reward myself with more. Sometimes the buzz would wear off because I was intent on finishing a task.

As I neared the end of these days, with an epic trip to ER, followed by ICU, I wasn't really functions. I kept making excuses to take naps, and I would rejoice when night time came. It meant I could go to bed without all the raised eyebrows in the house, thinking, what is your problem? Why are you always just sitting there. I'd get up to go drink secretly.

Horrible existence. I was also buying the cheapest stuff available: Skol, McCormick, etc.

I "only" drank for 4 years hard core. And still, I had a lot of acute diagnoses when I landed in ER. My husband forced me there. I probably would have been dead if I didn't go because I spent 6 days there. It was no little matter that I could take care of at home, by myself.

I will say this, and that's why your thread caught my attention. I was pretty highly functioning when I had to be. In fact, I excelled at what I was doing. I was also not hitting the bottle when I had to be on point. The reason I ended up in the hospital was BECAUSE OF A BINGE. I don't mean to capitalize to be mean, but please be careful. Acidosis, one of many diagnoses, can only happen after binge drinking. I had other things wrong with me from drinking daily, but my body finally screamed "just stop it".

Be careful.

notgonnastoptry

I am in IOP now. One thing that separates me from the group is that many are saying they are really bored now and they get cravings. My life is naturally busy, and I was pretty productive before all of this. When it was my turn to tell them about whether or not I was struggling with boredom, I kind of hesitated. I didn't want to gloat. It's not like I'm starting yoga, or learning a new language, or taking up hiking. No, just regular life is keeping me busy, the one I dropped the ball on when I assumed the life of a cat. Now, that was boring.

KeryJames

Jajajajajajajajajaja

Song deserves a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEniy4CmSZQ

Nonsensical

Fixed your post.

I've been camping many times without alcohol. It's quite a lot of fun.

Crossfitdad

I'm just trying to be rational here. Let's look at these questions. When reading my analysis, keep in mind, it says you might be an alcoholic even if you only answer "yes" to one of the questions.

1. Do you lose time from work due to your drinking?

This one sure. I think if you're missing work time because you are drinking, you have a problem.


2. Is drinking making your home life unhappy?

Ditto here.

3. Do you drink because you are shy with other people?

Ummm. Many, many people who are not alcoholics do this. It is universally known as "social lubricant". So according to this test, if you have drank alcohol to loosen up in a situation, you are an alcoholic.

4. Is drinking affecting your reputation?

I think this one has some merit.

5. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking?

Well, I guess my neighbor, who drinks two beers every month is now an alcoholic. See a friend of his came into town and they went out. They shared two pitchers of beer together on Friday night. He came to me pretty remorseful. I'm going to have to break the news to him.


6. Have you gotten into financial difficulties as a result of your drinking?

I think this too has some merit.

7. Do you turn to lower companions and an inferior environment when drinking?

Going to dive bars is a hipster trend. Dear Hipsters, you are all now alcoholic.

8. Does your drinking make you careless of your family's welfare?

Well, duh. This is pretty straightforward.

9. Has your ambition decreased since drinking?

Correlation does not mean causation. A scientist should know this.

10. Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily?

My grandfather craved a two finger scotch at 5:00 pm every day. That was all he drank. He was not an alcoholic.

11. Do you want a drink the next morning?

I'll concede on this one. Drinking in the morning is bad news.

12. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

I'm not sure the point of this one. Alcohol affects most everyone's sleeping patterns and makes sleep more difficulty. Guess most everyone who takes a drink is an alcoholic.

13. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking?

Again. Correlation does not equal causation


14. Is drinking jeopardizing your job or business?

This one is relevant.


15. Do you drink to escape from worries or troubles?

Umm...what? Isn't relaxation the point of drinking? Otherwise, there would be a huge industry of companies marketing slightly tasty non-alcoholic beverages for 10 times the cost of over beverages.

16. Do you drink alone?

This is a vague question. Alone as in the only one drinking or alone as in nobody else around you? What if you only had friends who didn't drink or your wife was pregnant, but you liked to have a few beers at dinner?

17. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of your drinking?

Personally only once about 20 years ago. I never want to do that again. But, there are so many kids drinking to blackout these days it would blow your mind. I assure you all those kids are not alcoholics - they are driven by peer pressure.

18. Has your physician ever treated you for drinking?

See 17. How many of those kids get alcohol poisoning.

19. Do you drink to build up your self-confidence?

Again. Another well recognize "benefit" of alcohol.

20. Have you ever been in a hospital or institution on account of drinking?

See 17 and 18.



It's an irresponsible self questionnaire that appears to have been developed by an abstinence organization (AA) to scare people away from alcohol. After all, if we aren't enjoying the drink, no one else should.

goodkitty

[QUOTE=Crossfitdad;5484738]I'm just trying to be rational here. Let's look at these questions. When reading my analysis, keep in mind, it says you might be an alcoholic even if you only answer "yes" to one of the questions.

With respect, perhaps the 'yes' answers to any of these questions don't bother you....they bother me. And that's reason enough to quit. The questions are a tool that may not work for everyone. Especially those who are in a bit of denial? Just my two cents.

dwtbd

cfd
While I agree with your points as to specific questions, I disagree with your characterization in the conclusion. An abstinence group need not be a Temperance Movement, though I do think the questionnaire definetely has a temperance bias.
I'm not AA, but I don't really see it as a Temperance Group.

KeryJames

Many people see it as a religious cult. I always wondered why they don't just say it's a religious group....what's the big deal in saying we're a religious group? They won't get as many recruits? I wondered why they say it's not religious yet the word god is written everywhere in the rooms.....they recite the "lord's" prayer, they say the serenity prayer......they tell you to 'seek through prayer', and didn't the 12 steps come from the Oxford Groups...an evangelic movement from the 1920's lead by a Lutheran minister? But it's not religous? is that denial or just a damn lie...

I think the OP's post is very relevant because it is a sticking point. In order to advance sticking points must be overcome. It's true what others say, that labels don't matter.....but they are used and they are used by AA.....and many people recommend AA.....and many people think AA is the only way to go........and we come full circle to the sticking point.

In my personal opinion and from my personal experience, I believe that if I never had of got involved in AA many moons ago, I would have quit drink of my own accord years ago. Something felt 'off 'when I went to meetings, with what they were selling and with the people....they all sounded the same. They sounded brainwashed.

It didn't feel right yet when I would go it alone I would hear "dry drunk" or "those that don't come back....' "AA is the only way" Fear based. So I felt thorn, I don't want to be an "alcoholic" if that means I have to go to that group (there's a recruitment process...just look at some messages) secondly, it sounded strange to say I was alcoholic after I was no longer drinking or addicted to the stuff! That's just weird....

I've realised that I could never be part of a group that wants me to admit I'm powerless over a disease that I don't have and they want me to turn my will over to a god that doesn't exist.......

Why is there a debate about the disease model? money and power. theres a big industry that tells people they are powerless over their disease and they need expensive threatment. If disease model was proven there would be no debate, but it's not. Aids and cancer are diseases. Sitting in your living room in your boxer shorts watching cartoons and drinking Remy Martin from a coffee mug is not a disease.

I think they do more damage than good. Look how many people go to AA and 'relapse' (more industry jargon we could do with out). What's the solution? more meetings, apply yourself to the steps, tie yourself to the cross....more of the same is not an answer!!!!!! If it hasn't worked for you try something different!!!

I also used to think "where would I find the time to go to meetings?" "they are so boring, listening to the same cliches over and over", I could be earning money, going to the gym, working on personal development, developing my social circle.....a thousand other things.......the last time I went to a meeting there was a guy who had 30 years sobriety but hadn't worked in over 20......he went to meeting after meeting.........waste of time. Get a job man.

The point is that I understand where the OP is coming from and I personally refuse to give myself any labels or believe that I have a disease. The result is that it's free'd up an awful lot of doubt and self conflict that I had over the years and I'm able to make a rational decision based on a lifestyle choice. And I feel completely free.................

ChiefBromden

It's always possible to have a false positive with such a list, but given how progressive alcoholism is, 3 yes answers will turn into many more after year or so. Anyway, it's not a definite diagnosis, but a checklist that (hopefully) makes one think, and take further action.

Drinking as a social lubricant is indeed a thing, but if, at the same time, you find yourself drinking all alone, something doesn't add up.

Ultimately, it's about alcohol being a problem for you or not. Even the question "are you often drunk?" would have given me a pass, as I hated losing control, and spent a massive amount of energy in walking the thin rope between intoxicated and drunk (I get tired just thinking about it now...). Yet there wasn't a shred of doubt that I was killing myself, and I needed to stop drinking asap.

Crossfitdad

Chief and Kery:

I'm not saying that I don't have an alcohol problem, but that test is pretty much bunk. I agree that alcoholism is not a disease any more than overeating or smoking is a disease. Tell someone with Lou Gehrigs disease that they are similar. I think South Park hit it on the head with their episode on alcoholism. People like to claim something is a disease because then they can blame the disease rather than themselves for their failings or weakness.

As far as AA goes, I went to two meetings and that was enough for me. I'm not sure what it was, but I didn't like them. The people were nice enough, but it just seemed like a bunch of miserable people. Funny that you have people there that espouse the benefits of not drinking, but are guzzling a stimulant (coffee), sugar (a poison) and chain smoking. I told myself that I had two choices (well, one actually): get a hold of your drinking or you are going to have to come back and keep coming back.

At the time I was knocking back anywhere from 7-8 high alcohol beers per day - sure I had good days where I only drank 4 or 5, but consistently it was 6-7. Every day was the same:

1. Wake up with a hangover. Most days wake up at 3:00 in the morning with my heart pounding and having an anxiety attack. It was miserable.

2. Suffer until around noon when I'd start feeling better.

3. Hit the grocery store and pick up a six pack at 5:00. Drink it all.

I came here back in 2012 I think, sick and tired of what I was doing. I told my wife and she (who doesn't really drink) said "do what you want, I just think you need to cut back." I gave it all up and lasted about a month. The first few days sucked with some night sweats, racing pulse and insomnia. I have to admit that it was sort of nice. Then what people here would call "my AV" kicked in. I decided I could drink again. That lasted about a month and I was back to square one. I quit again for a few weeks and then decided again being alcohol free was not for me.

Since then, I made some changes and reevaluated what a father and husband should be doing. I cut back on my intake gradually. I'm now at 2-3 beers per day. I'll have days where I have 1 and some days where I have 4, but mostly it's 2-3. On the weekends I know that if I have 4 or 5, a hangover awaits and if I catch myself cracking open that 4th or 5th, I'll ask myself "dude, what's the point? what are you going to get out of it? Do you really want to go down that route?" and I'll say "no" and pour it out. Wasted beer! I think the opening it is more psychological than anything. This has been going on for more than a year and I keep coming back here to keep me grounded and to express my thoughts.

I admit that I have some manner of a problem with alcohol and it would be healthier if I quit outright. They say that alcoholism is progressive. Frankly, I haven't seen it yet - maybe one day it will hit me and I'll seek treatment, but until that point I can't justify it .

I will say that each and every person is different. There are people here that are truly struggling each and every day. I admire their courage and dedication to fix themselves. I'm much weaker than all of them and I hope they cast out the demons that plague their lives.

Dee74

Lets not lose focus on the original post or poster - & please remember recovery method debates are off-topic in this forum.

Dee
Moderator
SR

Fly N Buy

Whatever works for you is great and is my mantra - Thanks for sharing your insight.

Congratulations on 10 days of sobriety!!

Keep coming back