thomas11

Thanks Purple, I went to bed as well. I've been sober for some time now and I'm here everyday as I cannot drive yet, so I am home for a substantial amount of time each day. I will give you a little inside information....if I disappear for a few days, that is when you can start to wonder what is going on. Gonna read those links now. Thanks for posting them.

I read it. He had an epiphany.

thomas11

I held off on commenting on your response endgame as i felt I needed to digest it a little. First, its quite the memory you have.

You stated ""Only being honest" about it is not enough." and that took some time to come to terms with. I've always thought honesty was the best policy and therefore saying its not enough, didn't sit well. But in the end, I tend to think you are right. While the term being a big-boy is kind of juvenile, to actually follow through with the behavior of a big-boy means being responsible and accountable...which of course, is no fun. What's a guy to do?

Dee74

I really think you need to challenge these implicit notions Jeff?

I actually enjoy being responsible and accountable. I enjoy balancing that with some downtime too - which I also spend responsibly because I accept I have a duty of self care to myself.

None of that is a chore. I love what I do whether I'm working or not.

I have a *lot* of fun - more fun that I ever had drinking.

D

EndGameNYC

Yes, my memory serves me well in my work, but is not always appreciated in my private or public life. It's not at all difficult to "remember" when a pattern emerges in someone's behavior. I was offering that you have an opportunity to break that pattern of thought and action with your current dilemma.

I had a student this past semester who was teetering on the edge with respect to failing the class. He didn't take his work seriously, which is certainly his prerogative, but I found myself reminding him that he was close to failing and that he needed to step it up. I don't make it difficult for my students to learn, nor is it difficult for them to get good grades when they earn them. He promised that he'd do well on the final exam, and said that I "shouldn't worry."

Anyway, his grade on the final was good enough for him to pass the course. After I'd submitted the grades for the course, he "confided" in me with a hint of pride that he'd cheated on the final. I responded that I'd wished he hadn't told me that, and then I failed him for the course. His defense was, "At least I was honest about it."

I'm not suggesting that you become either dishonest or withholding in terms of your thoughts and feelings. That goes against everything I believe in, and is contrary to the spirit of SR. Your being honest about your wanting to drink, and your often accompanying plans to do so, seems a sleight of mind that gives you permission to follow through on your plans. And, yes, in that regard, being honest is not enough. Though, in reality, you never took alcohol off the table anyway, so permission is unnecessary.

As much as I want you to succeed, I can't do it for you.

thomas11

Not sure I fully understand what you mean by challenging the implicit notions Dee? As far as saying its no fun, I was kind of saying it in jest.

thomas11

I understand EndGame. With regard to never taking booze off the table anyway, you are correct. So maybe you can offer some insight to this. I have two 1.75's sitting in the liquor cabinet, they haven't been touched since May 24th or 25th. Obviously I could have at any time. But I haven't.

ScottFromWI

I'd suggest dumping those out as soon as you can.

Debbie329

Oh Thomas ...... I think you should get those things out of the house! Seriously. You don't need to prove to yourself that you can withstand the temptation. It's not healthy.

thomas11

So I have a question for you guys that suggest dumping it. It has been said over and over on this site that the solution to sobriety is simple: don't drink. Its not easy, but its simple. And I agree. So what is the difference whether I am sitting in the center isle of a liquor store, or in the sahara desert? Nothing, its still the same solution....don't drink. Right?

CaseyW

Jeff, I think the issue with having the booze around the house is that keeping it so close when you get those thoughts/urges/cravings to drink may not give you the time to think the drink through or to come on here or to even just tell your addiction NO. Just because you didn't drink from those bottles yesterday doesn't mean you won't tomorrow or next Friday, etc. And all it takes is that first drink and all bets are off. You may not get the chance to sober up again or it may take months or years before you get back to this point you're at now. Addiction to alcohol is serious business.

Yeah, you can always go to the store and buy more, but just the physical act of getting dressed and getting your money together and then driving to the store and walking in there and then paying for it and going home and opening that bottle might be enough time to let the urge pass and/or to deny your addiction what it wants.

I had a HUGE craving about ten days ago. I mean, it was a monster, by far the worst I've had during my 58 days of sobriety this time. I can guarantee you that if I'd had booze around the house during the thirty minutes or so my addiction was yelling words of love to me that day, I would have taken that first drink and probably the second and third and eighth that usually follows that first one. But instead I was getting ready to go to work and didn't have time to go to the store and get a bottle, and by the time I got to work the craving had passed and I was still sober. If that bottle had been at home when that craving hit, I would have found an excuse to call in to work.

We're still new to sobriety. We both drank for years and years and years. Give your recovery muscles some time to strengthen. There's no reason to test them so early by keeping that booze around for easy access. You're not proving anything to yourself or to your addiction or to anyone else by keeping them at the house.

Dee74

OK, but I've seen the same thoughts from you a few times Jeff.

I meant the notion that drinking is fun and being responsible and accountable is not.

We can argue over whether it's implicit or explicit, but I'd rather not, LOL

as far as the bottles in your house go, for what it's worth I think it is different when it's right there in your house as opposed to the store.

You can change your mind a million times before you go out, buy the bottle, come back, and sit down to drink.

It's a lot more immediate when it's in your home. All it takes is a moment of madness.

You gonna do what you're gonna do, but that's the way I rolled.

D

Austin4Wyo

Dumping it out also proved cathartic to me. Keeping it, or even giving it away, gave it value. Dumping it made it akin to trash, which for my health and sanity, it had to become.

I know a few people in recovery who have spouses that drink on occasion, and they don't keep any in the house. Like was said above...of its on the premises and there's a moment when the addiction grabs hold, having a delay of a few steps versus a delay of a trip to the store may be the difference. It was for me a couple times when I was unemplpyed, still with a little money, and in that scary spot of wanting to stay sober as well as wanting to feed the addiction.

Your mileage, as always, will vary, but in that first little run, if I had been unsupervised with booze in my apartment, I would have been toasted, and on my way to being pickled.

At the old homegroup, we had a guy we often called 7 Drop, because he talked about finding those last seven drops in the bottle of whiskey, drinking them, then winding up completely blitzed. I thought he was full of it...except I'd done it. I just hadn't made the attempt to not drink, and the fractions of a drink in all my empties seemed to calm my shakes so I could get to the liquor store. Later on, after some attempts at recovery, I was a carbon copy. Find a few drops, and that was enough to start up.

Do what you feel is right, but I hope you aren't setting yourself up for a fall.

"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior

Verte

When I was 10 years old I learned to do back flips on the 4 inch wide/4 foot high balance beam apparatus by first practicing on firm ground, working at my own pace, gaining confidence and gradually working higher off the ground. Until one day I took a deep breath and asked myself the same question as you ask above. "What's the difference?"

My ultimate goal was confidence in my ability, to the best of my ability, to deliver a consistent and seemingly effortless performance on any balance beam, anywhere, with any crowd no matter the zillion other circumstances for which I could not account. I had to work my way there. I consider the answer to your question in the same manner.

DayTrader

I never dumped 3 high-end bottles of wine when I got sober and that was more than several years ago. While most people's experience would advise getting rid of it, mine is neither to advise you to keep it OR dump it. My advice is to be honest with yourself and take the mature/responsible route from there.

At first, I forgot I had those 3 bottles. By the time I found them, I was already all-in on recovery. I had decided that my sobriety won't be temporary, won't be until my next birthday or NYE or whatever. Nope, it was going to be for the rest of my life - period. I'd started in AA, had a sponsor and had a court-ordered out-patient substance abuse therapist too.

I learned early on that drinking, in and of itself, was not the main problem. Alcoholism is my problem.....and the drinking is just a symptom of it. Just like treating any illness, it's best to attack the source rather than the many branches of symptoms. Just like with a gunshot wound, treating the hole on the outside doesn't solve the real problem. So for me, as an alcoholic (source) who also had a current drinking problem (symptom), the solution was simple - treat the alcoholism and the drinking problem will disappear.

Once I began "treating" my alcoholism, the urge or desire to drink left me quickly - very quickly. Like you said above Thomas, it shouldn't matter if I have booze around me. Hell, I know recovered alcoholics who work in the booze industry - bartenders, alcohol company reps, party planners, etc. I personally eat out at restaurants, bars, play pool in pool halls, go to graduation parties, you name it. All these events typically involve alcohol and more often than not include a fair amount of ppl drinking, many drinking quite heavily. I have friends and family who drink. I have co-workers who drink. I can hang around any of them whether they're drinking or not. The key here is this though.... get past your alcoholism and you can be around all the liquor or drinkers you want because it just won't mean anything to you.

Now, with all that said - back to my original point: be honest with yourself.....about yourself. If you're still thinking about booze, be it now or thinking that "some day" it'll be ok then you're still operating under the guidance of an alcoholic mind. You may or may not BE and alcoholic and I don't know if you are - that's for you to decide. One thing's for sure though, if you're having thoughts about drinking, and you don't really want to drink, it probably doesn't make much sense to be around booze.

sg1970

The difference is how do you feel sitting in that liquor store isle. Are you white knuckling, irritable, grouchy? Do you have a battle going on in your mind regarding the drink?

I'm one of those that believes there is sobriety and there is recovery. To me sobriety is as simple as not picking up a drink but there is still misery with it. Recovery on the other hand has to be worked on. It has to be paid attention to and nurtured. And in return the misery goes away. In return you don't think about having a few and how relaxing it would be.

Notmyrealname

Life is the long game.

Opportunities for instant gratification (chemical or otherwise) at steep cost aren't rare. I think most of us found drinking pleasant at one time or another -- it has some appeal. But the cost, the hassle, the negative impact on your life and your health and your relationships and your career -- for some of us the price of picking up that drink is steep indeed.

Considering that there's no shortage of fun things to do in life that don't carry such an onerous cost, is it worth impairing most aspects of daily life, just for a cheap alcohol buzz? That's how I'm framing it nowadays anyway.

SoberHoopsFan

Alcohol tries to trick us. Was having "a few" ever your actual pattern? Or was it getting completely bombed? I'm not sure I see the appeal in social or moderate drinking, makes you slightly numb for a bit then the grogginess when it wears off. A tease at best. Pointless. It won't add anything to your life even if you managed to stop at a couple this time, look at it like that.

thomas11

...Your mileage, as always, will vary, but in that first little run, if I had been unsupervised with booze in my apartment, I would have been toasted, and on my way to being pickled." Dully noted, as I am the same.

thomas11

Just want to say I respect everyone's input and read them all thoroughly. Daytrader, your post is probably the most similar to my mindset. But at the same time, I am not where you are (in complete 100% sobriety) so the advice others have suggested, which is to get it out of the house because that may be just enough time for me to change my mind, is a good idea. So that's that.

thomas11

I am not going to lie, I do not drink because I'm thirsty or because it tastes good. I drink for effect. To escape, for a time out in life. And that's just the truth. 6 hour time out, 24+ hours of recooperation at my age. Doesn't seem logical or smart does it?