EVERYBODY'S DRINKING.... but why?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
I don't know how to explain it.
I give up.
It's not about presuming anyone's motivations.... It's about the general observation of many many many people and their behaviors. It's about the fact that the grocery store aisle has ten times as much beer, wine and liquor as the water and flavored water and soda and juice aisle. It's about a multi-billion dollar industry. It's about a western-world society that plain and simple, inarguably markets a NEED to drink in order to be many things as an adult in our world today and it's about my own experience of observing the behaviors (regardless the motivations) of people around me. It's plain to me that alcohol has more than an 'occasional' place in the day to day lives of many, many, many people - and I'm glad for the fact that it doesn't in mine and it strikes me that a LOT more people than just alcoholics or 'problem drinkers' have a place on the spectrum of dependence.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
As for what I did last night, I had a root beer and a ginger beer at a party with a lot of friends, some of whom were somewhat drunk, some of whom were not drinking, some of whom were having one or two. I had a lovely time for several hours with lovely people and then my lady and I came home and watched a movie and went to bed because it was chilly and we preferred to avoid the crowds and the folks driving home from the all day celebrations at the beer tents.
No clinical surveys were conducted - not have any been asserted.
No clinical surveys were conducted - not have any been asserted.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: nc.
Posts: 5
Darn-it I was on my 6th. day & yesterday I broke down on the 4th. of July and got bad drunk!
I'm paying for it now, very bad hang-over, but learned my lesson of how bad it feels;next morn!!! (pick myself up by the boot straps and stay off this poison) I need that inner PEACE that I hope I can achieve!!
I'm paying for it now, very bad hang-over, but learned my lesson of how bad it feels;next morn!!! (pick myself up by the boot straps and stay off this poison) I need that inner PEACE that I hope I can achieve!!
Hang on!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 181
Ever notice the sheer volume of alcohol ads on TV? Of course you have, but it didn't really hit home with me until I decided to get sober. The Daily Show for example is chock full of higher end alcohol ads. So are sports shows. It's everywhere. No tobacco ads, but alcohol is OK? We're all adults, but it's more transparent when you're an alcoholic. "Drink responsibly (but drink!)" seems the message. It would be cool to see a series of parody ads mocking those slick booze ads showing the less pretty side of alcoholism.
Sorry, just letting out some steam. Thanks.
Sorry, just letting out some steam. Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by FreeOwl 
And many of them WILL get blackout drunk. Some of them will get DUIs. Some of them will get in fights.
For it is so easy to forget and be deceived once more.
MB
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
FreeOwl, I agree, more people are more dependent than many would like to admit. I agree with all the anecdotal evidence, and have similar experiences. But I'm aware of my shortcomings as well. Like I said, my conclusions are suspect.
I guess, largely, the questions you posed about what constitutes addiction or dependence are what I dig about this conversation. If I have to question it, that means I don't know, and I need to be wary of my deductions of logic. My logic is flawed...badly.
Besides, all generalizations are bad, right?
(Hey, wait a minute...)
If I want, I can apply the same rules as a thought exercise to myself.
I cut loose by playing loud, obnoxious music on a frequent basis. Several times a week, even. Sometimes, this is in the company of others who also enjoy a good dose of Motörhead, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Saxon, and Dio. I've been doing it for years. So have others. The music industry is also a multibillion dollar industry. It's a product that has little practical value beyond thr aesthetic.
By your rubric, I'm looking at a heavy metal dependency of varying degree. But we haven't looked at whether I have periods of abstaining, whether it had an adverse effect, whether I can quit if I'm motivated.
As it stands, I'd say that my headbanging sessions are part.because I enjoy the music (your mileage may vary...heh), part because its available, and part because its familiar. I suspect many, many people drink at these convivial events for similar reasons.
(UP THE IRONS! \m/)
Speaking strictly for myself, I've found that when I start to justify my conclusions, its again time to check my motives. Why am I concerned? Am I putting my personal spin on things? Effectively, I'm looking for objectivity, and that's hard to achieve on my own.
I also know that when I'm trying to prop up my conclusions by justifying, I'm not TRULY at peace with those conclusions, which means I'm still not at peace with myself regarding that stimuli. That's okay, I'm a work in progress. (Tell me that when I'm frustrated. Heh.)
Beyond thay, I hate to put labels on people unnecessarily. It was either Kierkergard or Dick Van Patten that said, "When you label me, you negate me." If my conclusions are suspect, so will the labels I use.
I like that you said you want to learn to live as an example. I strive for that, and some days go better than others. Yesterday was a struggle for reasons unrelated to alcohol, and I had to be VERY dilligent in how I chose to view the world. Thankfully, looking at myself to examine the color I see the world in is something I've managed to make a habit. Sometimes, I suspect it makes me appear disinterested or aloof of others. That may be true, but I also think its an indication of my acceptance that the world outside of me will be, and its not my job to evaluate it, judge it, direct it, or otherwise attempt to be more one of the 6-7 billion that meander around this ball of dirt.
"Eighty percent of human wisdom is born out of a desire not to meddle in the affairs of others, and the other twenty percent doesn't matter." -Robert Heinlein.
That quote serves me well.
At any rate, I do enjoy a lively, friendly debate, something that seems rare (the friendly part). I find a lot of people wind up taking things personally, and thats not the intent. So thanks for keeping cheerul, and understanding that I genuinely enjoy the discourse, regardless of whether we move our stances or not.
You'll likely be rid of me this afternoon, as I intend to indulge in Formula 1 racing and irritate another message board by wishing I was David Hobbes or Steve Matchet.
Cheers!
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
I guess, largely, the questions you posed about what constitutes addiction or dependence are what I dig about this conversation. If I have to question it, that means I don't know, and I need to be wary of my deductions of logic. My logic is flawed...badly.
Besides, all generalizations are bad, right?
(Hey, wait a minute...)
If I want, I can apply the same rules as a thought exercise to myself.
I cut loose by playing loud, obnoxious music on a frequent basis. Several times a week, even. Sometimes, this is in the company of others who also enjoy a good dose of Motörhead, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Saxon, and Dio. I've been doing it for years. So have others. The music industry is also a multibillion dollar industry. It's a product that has little practical value beyond thr aesthetic.
By your rubric, I'm looking at a heavy metal dependency of varying degree. But we haven't looked at whether I have periods of abstaining, whether it had an adverse effect, whether I can quit if I'm motivated.
As it stands, I'd say that my headbanging sessions are part.because I enjoy the music (your mileage may vary...heh), part because its available, and part because its familiar. I suspect many, many people drink at these convivial events for similar reasons.
(UP THE IRONS! \m/)
Speaking strictly for myself, I've found that when I start to justify my conclusions, its again time to check my motives. Why am I concerned? Am I putting my personal spin on things? Effectively, I'm looking for objectivity, and that's hard to achieve on my own.
I also know that when I'm trying to prop up my conclusions by justifying, I'm not TRULY at peace with those conclusions, which means I'm still not at peace with myself regarding that stimuli. That's okay, I'm a work in progress. (Tell me that when I'm frustrated. Heh.)
Beyond thay, I hate to put labels on people unnecessarily. It was either Kierkergard or Dick Van Patten that said, "When you label me, you negate me." If my conclusions are suspect, so will the labels I use.
I like that you said you want to learn to live as an example. I strive for that, and some days go better than others. Yesterday was a struggle for reasons unrelated to alcohol, and I had to be VERY dilligent in how I chose to view the world. Thankfully, looking at myself to examine the color I see the world in is something I've managed to make a habit. Sometimes, I suspect it makes me appear disinterested or aloof of others. That may be true, but I also think its an indication of my acceptance that the world outside of me will be, and its not my job to evaluate it, judge it, direct it, or otherwise attempt to be more one of the 6-7 billion that meander around this ball of dirt.
"Eighty percent of human wisdom is born out of a desire not to meddle in the affairs of others, and the other twenty percent doesn't matter." -Robert Heinlein.
That quote serves me well.
At any rate, I do enjoy a lively, friendly debate, something that seems rare (the friendly part). I find a lot of people wind up taking things personally, and thats not the intent. So thanks for keeping cheerul, and understanding that I genuinely enjoy the discourse, regardless of whether we move our stances or not.
You'll likely be rid of me this afternoon, as I intend to indulge in Formula 1 racing and irritate another message board by wishing I was David Hobbes or Steve Matchet.
Cheers!
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
FreeOwl wrote: "As for what I did last night..."
O.K. Now that we're doing the replay after the Big Game, I'll confess what I did last night. The dog and I went to bed early. That's the best solution. As for what others do, Awewhydonchafuhgeddaboudid! If dems iz crazy whadamIgonnadoaboudid? Answer: I'm off to bed. And dat's where I'm gonna stay.
W.
O.K. Now that we're doing the replay after the Big Game, I'll confess what I did last night. The dog and I went to bed early. That's the best solution. As for what others do, Awewhydonchafuhgeddaboudid! If dems iz crazy whadamIgonnadoaboudid? Answer: I'm off to bed. And dat's where I'm gonna stay.
W.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
As long as the thinking produces results, I think that's a good thing. One thing I had to figure out during my treatment/mental unit stints was how to make sure that my desire to process through in a methodical fashion actually brings results. I do okay now, but there were many times when my logic didn't fit my emotions, so I did my best to avoid emotions. Drinking was one method. Being a jackwagon to others by pointing out their flaws to validate my own behavior was another.
I need to stay vigilant of that. If I need external validation, I better tread VERY lightly.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
I need to stay vigilant of that. If I need external validation, I better tread VERY lightly.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
Each to their own.
I don't personally feel there's anything wrong with looking externally to observe behaviors and events as a lens through which to see ones own choices.
What helps me stay sober, helps ME stay sober.
I don't personally feel there's anything wrong with looking externally to observe behaviors and events as a lens through which to see ones own choices.
What helps me stay sober, helps ME stay sober.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
I see this item which has come over the net from the Guardian.com'u.s.news which reports that a man has just died after attempting to set off fireworks from the top of his own head. I have no intention of taking his inventory posthumously and perhaps it would be presumptuous of me to do so.
Maine man killed after trying to launch firework from top of his head | US news | The Guardian
W.
Maine man killed after trying to launch firework from top of his head | US news | The Guardian
W.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
P.S. The link I attempted to insert was deleted since apparently you are not permitted to access it on this website. Perhaps you can google it. Surely SoberRecovery can't prevent you from doing that!
There's also been a url thing inserted in this post by someone perhaps editorially but it does not seem to be working. No matter! Fuggedaboudid. I have other things to deal with. My son is in the ER right now.
W.
There's also been a url thing inserted in this post by someone perhaps editorially but it does not seem to be working. No matter! Fuggedaboudid. I have other things to deal with. My son is in the ER right now.
W.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 596
Social conditioning and the addictive quality of the substance. People consume it because they are taught to do so from a young age by observing others. Then once they've tasted it, they "choose" to keep doing so on these occasions.
Great thread. It is ironic that freedom is celebrated by the ultimate form of slavery.
Great thread. It is ironic that freedom is celebrated by the ultimate form of slavery.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by FreeOwl
I don't know how to explain it.
I give up.
It's not about presuming anyone's motivations.... It's about the general observation of many many many people and their behaviors. It's about the fact that the grocery store aisle has ten times as much beer, wine and liquor as the water and flavored water and soda and juice aisle. It's about a multi-billion dollar industry. It's about a western-world society that plain and simple, inarguably markets a NEED to drink in order to be many things as an adult in our world today and it's about my own experience of observing the behaviors (regardless the motivations) of people around me. It's plain to me that alcohol has more than an 'occasional' place in the day to day lives of many, many, many people - and I'm glad for the fact that it doesn't in mine and it strikes me that a LOT more people than just alcoholics or 'problem drinkers' have a place on the spectrum of dependence.
Dependence is a wide spectrum as you point out. I guess I'm not totally surprised that you got semi-attacked for making this thread, some see alcohol as black or white, alcoholic or non-alcoholic. Again, these are not intuitive thoughts, they are taught to us and programmed in by others.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
Dunno...I've seen some dogs that thoroughly enjoyed their beer. A rodeo horse or two as well.
(We're clearly high brow in Wyoming.)
I do agree that the macro level examination will yield different conclusions than a micro level. However, micro level is where my day to day life is. As for varying degrees of dependence, sure, as long as the defintion is agreed upon. The DSM-V is readily available, but it'd be hard to make a distinction per its criteria with the given sample and a non-clinical assessment.
I wasn't trying to play amateur psychoanalyst or sociologist (been years since I took classes to either discipline). Simply having the discussion, and FreeOwl didn't seem to object. If he was "attacked," I didn't feel it was in this arena.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
(We're clearly high brow in Wyoming.)
I do agree that the macro level examination will yield different conclusions than a micro level. However, micro level is where my day to day life is. As for varying degrees of dependence, sure, as long as the defintion is agreed upon. The DSM-V is readily available, but it'd be hard to make a distinction per its criteria with the given sample and a non-clinical assessment.
I wasn't trying to play amateur psychoanalyst or sociologist (been years since I took classes to either discipline). Simply having the discussion, and FreeOwl didn't seem to object. If he was "attacked," I didn't feel it was in this arena.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
I didn't feel attacked. I felt frustrated that what I was trying to expressed seemed to be misinterpreted - possibly even judged - by some of my fellows here, but that happens. We all have our own perspective. I can see where those comments were coming from. No worries.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 13,718
Before I left for my AA meeting tonight I told my wife that there would be a "newbie" at the meeting who got totally hammered over the 4th, and now on July 5th is attending their first AA meeting. Maybe it was a DUI, maybe their wife told them to get sober or else, or maybe they drove their boat into a dock.
I was right, their was a newbie there. He didn't share what happened to get him to come to AA, but he looked shell shocked with guilt and remorse.
I was right, their was a newbie there. He didn't share what happened to get him to come to AA, but he looked shell shocked with guilt and remorse.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
I haven't been to AA since I moved at the first of the year, but I recall those nights, both being the new guy, and seeing them come in. It was particularly bad around Christmas/New Years, then around February, when a good chunk of Wyoming seems to be ice cube.
I won't deny that there's an increase in drinking during various holidays. For me, though, it didn't matter if it was a holiday. I drank. It wasn't celebration, or even fooling myself into thinking it was celebration. It was absolutely, positively being so sick and f***ed up in the head that I couldn't think of an alternative.
Being that messed up is why I distrust myself to understand most other people drinking socially. They wouldn't understand how I drank, and I have no way to relate to a beer or a cocktail being nothing more than a choice of beverage.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
I won't deny that there's an increase in drinking during various holidays. For me, though, it didn't matter if it was a holiday. I drank. It wasn't celebration, or even fooling myself into thinking it was celebration. It was absolutely, positively being so sick and f***ed up in the head that I couldn't think of an alternative.
Being that messed up is why I distrust myself to understand most other people drinking socially. They wouldn't understand how I drank, and I have no way to relate to a beer or a cocktail being nothing more than a choice of beverage.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by Zebra1275
He didn't share what happened to get him to come to AA, but he looked shell shocked with guilt and remorse.
And a Happy Queen
which makes for a Happy Sober King
Mountainman
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,450
Originally Posted by Zebra1275
Before I left for my AA meeting tonight I told my wife that there would be a "newbie" at the meeting who got totally hammered over the 4th, and now on July 5th is attending their first AA meeting. Maybe it was a DUI, maybe their wife told them to get sober or else, or maybe they drove their boat into a dock. I was right, their was a newbie there. He didn't share what happened to get him to come to AA, but he looked shell shocked with guilt and remorse.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
