EVERYBODY'S DRINKING.... but why?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
Regarding the OP, yep everyone was drinking, and it will continue today. I was up early as usual, and its pretty darn quiet around the ole' neighborhood this morning. I'm guessing in about 1-2 hours I'll start to see the golf carts and side by sides heading down to the beach fully loaded with poison to ENJOY another day. hmmm.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,841
Originally Posted by MelindaFlowers 
I used to wish I was one of those people that could "enjoy" partying a few times a year but I'm just a bird of a different feather.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
Counting the amount of drinks others drink. Noting all their plans. Stating that they are "dependent" on a chemical for the good time.
Look, a person can go to bars all night without getting soused as a newt. I know people that went to bars last night, but I'm unaware if they drank one, a few, many, or no cocktails at their evening stop offs. I'm certain that when I go to a gathering where people are drinking, I'm not counting how many cocktails others consume. I did at one point, and all I was doing was avoiding my own personal responsibility.
Stating that these people are "dependent" on alcohol for a good time is mighty presumptive. I don't know people's lives.or motivations. I'm disinclined to try and be a mind reader.
I cannot objectively see a redeeming quality to me drinking anymore. I also have to realize that, because I am not someone else, I cannot be objective about their drinking, their motivations, and their outcomes.
I'm glad you feel the gratitude in liberation from drinking. I'd be awfully wary of making blanket statememts regarding qualifications for others to have a good time. Presuming everyone sees their world through my lense is dangerous, both because it feeds my ego and because my lense is heavily distorted.
Alcohol is prevalent. This isn't news. In fact, it was a great excuse for me to stay in the disease. "Everyone drinks!" and the like were fabulous projections on my part to justify being canned EVERY social gathering.
My anecdotal counterpoint is this: when I stopped focusing on drinking, I saw that most people didn't drink like I did. Most aren't dependent on it for a good time. Its simply one small additive to their good time, but on the whole, is completely optional, and their good time wouldn't be affected if it wasn't present, or so I can observe. I guess I could be complety wrong, since I already stated I don't read minds, but their observed observed behavior toward gatherings with or without booze lends itself to my opinion.
Me? I had to have booze to have a good time, and several years ago, I was good at projecting MY problems on others, which for me, was nothing more than avoidance, self-pity, and resentment. Funnily enough, when I focused on others drinking, I wasn't dealing with myself, and I didn't stay sober.
When I'm making observations about others, its good to check my motives. If all I'm doing is hollering "ROBBLE! ROBBLE ROBBLE!" without a clear and constructive purpose, I've found that my motives are usually suspect.
I can't drink. Thats where it ends for me. My business, not theirs.
I'll put my soapbox away now.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Look, a person can go to bars all night without getting soused as a newt. I know people that went to bars last night, but I'm unaware if they drank one, a few, many, or no cocktails at their evening stop offs. I'm certain that when I go to a gathering where people are drinking, I'm not counting how many cocktails others consume. I did at one point, and all I was doing was avoiding my own personal responsibility.
Stating that these people are "dependent" on alcohol for a good time is mighty presumptive. I don't know people's lives.or motivations. I'm disinclined to try and be a mind reader.
I cannot objectively see a redeeming quality to me drinking anymore. I also have to realize that, because I am not someone else, I cannot be objective about their drinking, their motivations, and their outcomes.
I'm glad you feel the gratitude in liberation from drinking. I'd be awfully wary of making blanket statememts regarding qualifications for others to have a good time. Presuming everyone sees their world through my lense is dangerous, both because it feeds my ego and because my lense is heavily distorted.
Alcohol is prevalent. This isn't news. In fact, it was a great excuse for me to stay in the disease. "Everyone drinks!" and the like were fabulous projections on my part to justify being canned EVERY social gathering.
My anecdotal counterpoint is this: when I stopped focusing on drinking, I saw that most people didn't drink like I did. Most aren't dependent on it for a good time. Its simply one small additive to their good time, but on the whole, is completely optional, and their good time wouldn't be affected if it wasn't present, or so I can observe. I guess I could be complety wrong, since I already stated I don't read minds, but their observed observed behavior toward gatherings with or without booze lends itself to my opinion.
Me? I had to have booze to have a good time, and several years ago, I was good at projecting MY problems on others, which for me, was nothing more than avoidance, self-pity, and resentment. Funnily enough, when I focused on others drinking, I wasn't dealing with myself, and I didn't stay sober.
When I'm making observations about others, its good to check my motives. If all I'm doing is hollering "ROBBLE! ROBBLE ROBBLE!" without a clear and constructive purpose, I've found that my motives are usually suspect.
I can't drink. Thats where it ends for me. My business, not theirs.
I'll put my soapbox away now.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
FreeOwl, I did reread your post before the last reply. If its a curiosity,.thats good. Growth came from my curiosity. I, too, have moments when I find it slightly amusing that the liquor and beer companies have our patriotic holidays on lockdown. Tell my boys on the ship about how much you're tipping back a cold one in their honor. They'll LOVE that...heh.
Like I said, as long as I stay aware of my motives, curiosity stays just that...a passing notice. When I start to go beyond curious and make statements beyond what I can quantifiably observe, I'm typically not on the up and up, and I'm giving up my freedom from the disease.
Alcohol and fast food have a couple similarities for me...
1) Both are terrible for me in a long run.
2) I'm free from the obsession of both.
3) I barely notice fast food unless someone is eating it, or I drive past a fast food joint, and anymore, I barely notice.outside references to alcohol as they are presented.
I never had an addiction to Whoppers, Big Macs, or Nachos Bel Grandé. But if I have a Whopper, I can go months or years without patronizing Burger King again. I don't have more than a passing thought about fast food on any regular basis. "Oh, there's McDuck's," is about the extent of it.
After many, many tries at recovery, I'm in a similar place with alcohol. "Oh, there's a liquor store," "Wow, a new bar opened up," and "I don't need the drinks list, I'll have lemonade, please," are about where my thoughts are most days. Not EVERY day, but most.
True liberation from the obsession, for me, anyway, comes when I'm no longer any more aware of external references to alcohol beyond personal vigilance of my disease. If it seems in my face that its OMG EVERYWHERE!!!, I better be taking a look inward, rather than outward.
I hope thats where you're truly at, because it is indeed a great place. I guess I was just suspect of it because of the laundry list of things you pointed out that were external to you. Either way, you're sober today, and that's what counts.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Like I said, as long as I stay aware of my motives, curiosity stays just that...a passing notice. When I start to go beyond curious and make statements beyond what I can quantifiably observe, I'm typically not on the up and up, and I'm giving up my freedom from the disease.
Alcohol and fast food have a couple similarities for me...
1) Both are terrible for me in a long run.
2) I'm free from the obsession of both.
3) I barely notice fast food unless someone is eating it, or I drive past a fast food joint, and anymore, I barely notice.outside references to alcohol as they are presented.
I never had an addiction to Whoppers, Big Macs, or Nachos Bel Grandé. But if I have a Whopper, I can go months or years without patronizing Burger King again. I don't have more than a passing thought about fast food on any regular basis. "Oh, there's McDuck's," is about the extent of it.
After many, many tries at recovery, I'm in a similar place with alcohol. "Oh, there's a liquor store," "Wow, a new bar opened up," and "I don't need the drinks list, I'll have lemonade, please," are about where my thoughts are most days. Not EVERY day, but most.
True liberation from the obsession, for me, anyway, comes when I'm no longer any more aware of external references to alcohol beyond personal vigilance of my disease. If it seems in my face that its OMG EVERYWHERE!!!, I better be taking a look inward, rather than outward.
I hope thats where you're truly at, because it is indeed a great place. I guess I was just suspect of it because of the laundry list of things you pointed out that were external to you. Either way, you're sober today, and that's what counts.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
Your fast food comparison is a good one: far too many people eat far too much fast food. Littering and overconsumption of resources and destructive environmental practices are all external to me, yet I can comment on them, have an opinion on them, even participate in activism about them.
I think that in my life ahead, I may actually see a path where part of my own contribution to life is creating and fostering an example and even inspiration for others to see their lives as cherished and free themselves from dependence on such things... To live and to love more joyously. I don't think it's wrong or dangerous of me to take note of and even offer observation on these things that I see..... Just as many vegans or nutritionists or organic food advocates take note of and offer commentary on the plague of terrible fast food.
One needn't be an alcoholic to benefit from reducing ones priority on alcohol. I think a lot of people fall in that category.
And I find it personally helpful to acknowledge that. Even if I were not an alcoholic.... The fact is my life is richer and more joyful without it. And I do see a lot of people around me whose lives are deeply interwoven with alcohol.
Anyhow, thanks all for your sharing and perspective!
I think that in my life ahead, I may actually see a path where part of my own contribution to life is creating and fostering an example and even inspiration for others to see their lives as cherished and free themselves from dependence on such things... To live and to love more joyously. I don't think it's wrong or dangerous of me to take note of and even offer observation on these things that I see..... Just as many vegans or nutritionists or organic food advocates take note of and offer commentary on the plague of terrible fast food.
One needn't be an alcoholic to benefit from reducing ones priority on alcohol. I think a lot of people fall in that category.
And I find it personally helpful to acknowledge that. Even if I were not an alcoholic.... The fact is my life is richer and more joyful without it. And I do see a lot of people around me whose lives are deeply interwoven with alcohol.
Anyhow, thanks all for your sharing and perspective!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: mid-america
Posts: 23
In Dependence. Kinda nice to NOT be that sheep anymore. No bellwether to be found in the bunch anyway (not that sheep have a whole lot of sense anyway...even the matriarch knows not "why") . Happy saturday to all! We, of course having 3 little ones will be at the fireworks this evening with soda and chips. I really don't see the boozy behavior unless I cast my gaze that way. I don't care to look. All the action will be in the sky. Like a car wreck--just say no.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Originally Posted by Della1968
I didn't see it as taking inventory of others. I felt it was just taking note of how prevalent it is in society which it is.
W.
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 562
I'm happy to be sober today and nobody is around me drinking cause I'm not interested in that environment....if I was Id go across the street. I hope I can look at alcohol some day and dismiss it like I would a snickers bar. I'm at least half way there.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
Prejudging people for something that MAY happen isn't my modus operandi. A guy holding a cocktail isn't necessarily going to drive drunk. I'm not their daddy. I can encourage them not to drink and drive, but ultimately, I don't answer for anyone but myself. The immediate corollary is that no one else answers for me, either.
Saying that others should live by my priorities seems short sighted. If something bad happens, or appears to be happening, then certainly, I would act in good faith. But as a general rule, if they aren't harming people, I feel I'm out of line interceding based on MY values.
They aren't me. I shouldn't presume they think, act, or feel the same as me. Presuming I know better is awfully proud, given my history.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Saying that others should live by my priorities seems short sighted. If something bad happens, or appears to be happening, then certainly, I would act in good faith. But as a general rule, if they aren't harming people, I feel I'm out of line interceding based on MY values.
They aren't me. I shouldn't presume they think, act, or feel the same as me. Presuming I know better is awfully proud, given my history.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Austin4Wyo: I heartily agree. And I would think most folks would agree. When I was young we used to laugh at drunks, particularly in the movies (e.g. W.C. Fields). Now we only feel a bit sorry for them. Particularly if we're alcoholics, because we've been where they may be headed and we've made it back. Not everyone makes it back. It often ends in death or hell on earth. If they kill or disable others then that's quite a different matter. Ironic that when it happens on Memorial Day then they're adding more dead to those they "memorialize" by drinking.
W.
W.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 280
Even the ones who don't really drink that much will pour a few thousand extra calories down their throats.
Why?
To celebrate Independence?
----------------------------------------
Maybe the holiday is an excuse to do what they've been itching to do. Go crazy for a while.
I have often wondered whether my friends who drink all weekend at parties and then don't drink for upto 3-4 weeks are alcoholics.
They tend to have fun. Get drunk, and seem to able to shake it off and get back to their lives for extended periods of time.
I know that I can't do that. I have tried. But have always started drinking every weekend. Then every day. Then to the point of almost losing my job.
Let people have their 'fun'. Some people really are having fun. And most are fooling themselves.
Stay the course!
👍
Why?
To celebrate Independence?
----------------------------------------
Maybe the holiday is an excuse to do what they've been itching to do. Go crazy for a while.
I have often wondered whether my friends who drink all weekend at parties and then don't drink for upto 3-4 weeks are alcoholics.
They tend to have fun. Get drunk, and seem to able to shake it off and get back to their lives for extended periods of time.
I know that I can't do that. I have tried. But have always started drinking every weekend. Then every day. Then to the point of almost losing my job.
Let people have their 'fun'. Some people really are having fun. And most are fooling themselves.
Stay the course!
👍
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 562
I saw a pick-up on the local highway packed with 12 packs of land shark......like 4 or 5 high.....and I was w a friend who still drinks and he said sadly ........the sun ruins beer ....you know that? It was funny.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,167
Yeah.... I am a little mind blown by it too. There have been plenty of people who I've seen not drinking. But far more who have obviously neeeeded to have booze involved in order to celebrate.
Even the ones who just have a few... To 'loosen up'.
So, we are dependent upon a chemical to do so! This isn't taking inventory, it's observation. It's something I've felt and thought here and there in sobriety as I've observed the reasons, occasions and ways that people drink.
It's kind of interesting... I mean at what point IS it 'dependent'? If a person only has two beers but also has not gone more than a week without two beers in 15 years..... Is that dependence? Is that person even capable of it anymore?
If a person says - 'man... I NEED a DRINK' every other Friday night and has three whiskey sours but doesn't get drunk... Isn't that person self-medicating too?
Now before anyone says I'm taking inventory or reminds me o the difference between these types of drinking and severe alcoholic drinking - I know, I know.
The point here is that there are subtle, arguably less-drastic and less harmful forms of addiction - but they are still a degree of dependence. They are still needing to have or at the very least defaulting to the choice to have a substance in order to be able to; relax, have fun, celebrate, relieve stress, feel joy, relate to others.
When I look at it like that, I see a brighter sort of shine on sobriety.... Because it's being free from any of that dependence and it means learning how to relax, have fun, celebrate, relieve stress, feel joy and relate to others purely as ourselves.
Even the ones who just have a few... To 'loosen up'.
So, we are dependent upon a chemical to do so! This isn't taking inventory, it's observation. It's something I've felt and thought here and there in sobriety as I've observed the reasons, occasions and ways that people drink.
It's kind of interesting... I mean at what point IS it 'dependent'? If a person only has two beers but also has not gone more than a week without two beers in 15 years..... Is that dependence? Is that person even capable of it anymore?
If a person says - 'man... I NEED a DRINK' every other Friday night and has three whiskey sours but doesn't get drunk... Isn't that person self-medicating too?
Now before anyone says I'm taking inventory or reminds me o the difference between these types of drinking and severe alcoholic drinking - I know, I know.
The point here is that there are subtle, arguably less-drastic and less harmful forms of addiction - but they are still a degree of dependence. They are still needing to have or at the very least defaulting to the choice to have a substance in order to be able to; relax, have fun, celebrate, relieve stress, feel joy, relate to others.
When I look at it like that, I see a brighter sort of shine on sobriety.... Because it's being free from any of that dependence and it means learning how to relax, have fun, celebrate, relieve stress, feel joy and relate to others purely as ourselves.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 287
I still think its highly suspect to presume I know motivations. Unless I implicitly ask them, I do NOT know. Even then, without standardizing how i ask and how people can respond, things will paint a biased picture based on MY experiences and thinking. I still don't understand how you're so bloody sure of people's motivation and habits.
I'm hazarding a guess that you did not take a clinical survey of people's drinking habits last night. If you did, you have an interesting way of celebrating.
The anecdotal evidence says one thing, but hard numbers say another...when 90% of alcohol is consumed by 10% of the population, somewhere, there'd a divide. I'm in the 10%. My view is skewed, so my conclusions are suspect.
Overthinking about others doesn'y help MY sobriety. Clearly, your mileage varies.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
I'm hazarding a guess that you did not take a clinical survey of people's drinking habits last night. If you did, you have an interesting way of celebrating.
The anecdotal evidence says one thing, but hard numbers say another...when 90% of alcohol is consumed by 10% of the population, somewhere, there'd a divide. I'm in the 10%. My view is skewed, so my conclusions are suspect.
Overthinking about others doesn'y help MY sobriety. Clearly, your mileage varies.
"Always Believe!" -The Ultimate Warrior
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
