Taoism and AA
 

Was Lao Tzu (5th Cent. BCE) a member of AA?

Consider, among other sayings:

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" (AA: "One day at a time....")

"By seeking to do many things, nothing gets done. By doing little, everything gets done." (AA: "One Step at a Time")

"Small things should not be worried about. And greater things should not be worried about if one cannot change them..." (AA Don't worry about the small things or the big things which you can't change...")

"Go with the Flow (Tao)" (AA: "Easy Does It!" "Turn it Over")

For lots more Tao quotes Google <Tao Tse Ching> or <Lao Tzu>:c011:

W.

Hey thanks for this post I'd be curios any other taoism books or something you might recomend. I'm currently reading 365 tao and really enjoying it. Boleo caused me to get curious about the tao etc.. and from there I'm devouring whatever info I can find.

It's happened a lot in my reading of various spiritual teachings where I've thought "Hey, AA says the same thing!"

That's some interesting observations!! Thanks for sharing!! :)

I like Jane English's translation even though there are a few more recent ones. I'm also impressed with other ancient sources of wisdom, such as Aristotle, Epicurus, the Book of Ecclesiastes and Marcus Aurelius, all quite out of tune with our times, which emphasize money, "success", power, fame, "me", "information", all toxic in one way or another. One may quarrel with "information" being toxic but read Ecclesiastes. An excessive preoccupation with "information", becoming an "expert", may be self centered and akin to the neurosis of "hoarding."

W

Wpainterw.......I can see that about information.....keeping certain knowledge secret.......I have a business associate who does what I do.......I'm in no way sharing my latest brain storm. Knowledge is power.

When examined separately, almost all (if not all) of the philosophical and theological aspects of the 12-Steps are unoriginal. As you can see, these ideas have been around for centuries if not thousands of years. Bill W's combining of these various beliefs into a systematic program was what gave the Steps their originality, and even that aspect of the program was derived from the Oxford Group Movement which in turn was derived from Christianity which is two thousand years old.

IMO, the foremost original aspect of the Steps is the idea of defining one's own God. IMO without that allowance, it's doubtful AA would achieved the success it has.

There is another more recent translation of the Tao Te Ching (Tao Te Ching: A New Translation with Commentary Paperback – April 3, 1998
by Ellen Chen (Editor) which I have dipped into and yet, as I have said, I still prefer the old Jane English translation. The Commentary in the 1998 one is exhaustive and helpful. Yet much can be obtained merely by meditating on the Tao Te Ching itself.
One thing is clear to me and that is that addiction to alcohol makes it nearly impossible, perhaps insures that it is impossible to achieve any kind of wisdom or happiness. And the times in which we live, with their widespread custom of drinking and drugging on holidays and many other social occasions, as well as the emphasis on attaining "power", money, prestige, fame, the narcissism, preoccupation with "me", "selfies", etc. etc. make recovery from alcoholism even harder. For, the longer I drank alcohol, the more selfish I became. This was because of the way my body had "adapted" by changing its metabolism, chemistry, neurology, to accommodate alcohol so as to require it for any type of relief. Only when I gave it up could I start learning that happiness can only come from helping others, focussing on moderation (except for moderation in sobriety), understanding, love, forgiveness, beauty. These are real. Everything else is toxic illusion.
I hope that I have made up for some of the mistakes that I have made. If there is a God I hope to be forgiven at least for some of them. If there is no God, then I may be as if I had never been born, nothing at all. If need be I'll settle for that.

W.

I like reading The Tao of Pooh

Yes, very relevant to today's times. For example, when Pooh goes up in the sky holding on to two balloons, this exemplifies today's tendency to digitalize everything and then send it up to a "cloud". Like that song that says that "Everyone's gone to the Moon!"
Eeyore is of course clinically depressed. Should have been hospitalized. Possibly suicidal. Owl is a pedantic but genial university type, comfortable in gown, sitting at High Table drinking Claret. Rabbit is of course compulsive-obsessive, possibly manic, a meddling bureaucrat, self styled organizer. But for true mania consider the unforgettable "Mr. Toad" of "The Wind in the Willows". Truly a danger to himself and others. In addition, a cross dresser. Transsexual?:dee

nah :) just holding up the great British Pantomime tradition of 'frocking up' :)

I think the word's great religions definitely have commonalities that run through them.

The 12 steps certainly reflect many of those common threads :)

D

AA was divinely inspired because God got tied of seeing his children die of alcoholism. So sure....I believe!

Dee: "Frocking up" also seemed to be somewhat a tradition in the higher echelons of our F.B.I.

I couldn't possibly comment on that, Bill LOL

D

Of course it may not have the stigma it used to have in less "enlightened" times. The "couldn't possibly comment" ploy attained popularity in the original BBC series, "House of Cards".

W.

My sister highly recommended that book, so it's on my reading list.

Yes, power over the "ten thousand things..."

W.

It took a bit of time to do that. Are there hearings, committee meetings, bipartisan caucuses, referendums, judicial reviews in Heaven?

W.

you picked the provenance w ;)

D

My sister years ago went to study a masters in classical studies, which she had to learn either Greek or Latin, in addition it involved getting into all the ancient philosophers.

Anyways I was clearing out the attic at my mum's house last summer and came across all her old books, Aristotle, Plato etc, and so I decided to have a read of all these books that I'd heard of but had never read, always had great intentions, but like so many things, alcohol drained my time!!

I love how many of the struggles that we have today, power, acceptance, wealth, politics, where the same topics that were up for discussion back then, the methods have changed through technology etc but the basic questions of being a human and existing in society are similar.

Back to the original assertion, the principles of AA being similar to other wisdom, it may be simply that the human condition has now been unchanged for centuries, and philosophers have stumbled across the same conclusions!! :)