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Old 06-27-2015, 10:13 AM
  # 101 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by site1Q84 View Post
It really seems to. I have to do it when I'm not having cravings for practice, because they can be pretty hard to ignore. Now that I've gotten the hang of it just being able to clear my mind of that stupid AV for a few minutes is enough to get me back on the right track. I also saw someone say that they wrote down their "play it forward list" about what would happen if they took a drink. I guess writing it down instead of just thinking it can be more powerful to some people. Never hurts to try! Whatever you need to get through them. Ice Cream is also helpful for me haha
Is this the "play it forward list" (see below) you are talking about? Ironically, I was the one that started that thread a few weeks ago and used that tool several times but did NOT use it Thursday when I drank. (((Head bang)))

-------------------------------------------

Just wanted to share....

I got a craving at my usually time yesterday....between 4:00-6:00 pm. I took my journal out and started writing. It was essentially "writing through the drink" instead of "thinking through the drink". (a.k.a. playing the drinking tape all the way through) When I am having a craving it's hard for me to think about anything BUT drinking so writing it out was so helpful!

It looked something like this:
1. Craving
2. Lie to family about where I am going so I can go out and drink
3. Buy beer & cigs
4. Chug beer in my car and worry someone will see me or even a cop
5. Go to bar
6. Sit alone like a loser
7. Drink X,Y, Z until I feel sick
8. Spend tons of money we don't have
9. Drive home drunk (ugh!) or spend a ton of $ on a cab
10. Vomit when get home
11. Spend the entire night tossing and turning and hating myself
12. Wake up stinking like alcohol and stale smoke
13. Feel so much shame, guilt, anxiety and depression in the morning
14. Head pounding
15. Soooo hungover
16. Wasted so much money
17.

You get the idea. Mine was ALOT more detailed and ended up having about 40 things on the list but it worked. By the time I got done there was no way in hell I wanted to drink!

I'm sure others have tried this tool, but if you haven't...it worked for me so maybe it will help you. :-)
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:43 AM
  # 102 (permalink)  
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Ahh! Why yes, that is exactly the list I'm talking about.
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:25 AM
  # 103 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
My problem is these unbelievable cravings! Like someone or something just takes over my body! I can go days or weeks without a drink and then BOOM it's like a monster grabs me and pulls me under. I feel defenseless! It's so scary. ok first, cravings are a b!tch. however nobody died from a craving. and cravings WILL pass. we can make that "easier" on ourselves by using recovery tools. BUT each time we give in, we are writing a script that says "when cravings hit I give myself permission to use". rather than hog your thread, I suggest you read about Flare Up Periods at this link. Flare Up Periods really good info, IMHO, and really helped me when I was quitting crack.
Wow! I just had a time to sit down and read your link on "Flare Up Periods". I have never heard of that but makes total sense! I got a lot out of it. The bottom line....every time I drink I start ALL OVER. :-(

The bad thing...early in the article it talks about having support people around you to watch for signs. Unfortunately, I don't have much of that. My husband works a lot, I'm not gonna ask my kids to so that, I don't have any friends who don't work and don't have much family outside of my house with my husband and kids.

This is why, for ME, it's vital that I attend AA regularly. They may see red flags that I don't. Ya know?
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend View Post
Thanks for asking Serenidad. I have had to do some soul searching myself and I question whether or not I REALLY want to quit drinking. The jury is still out, but I think the answer is yes. I do self-sabotage though. Working on that aspect. Give it another go Serenidad...all you can do.
You too ArtFriend!
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dharma33 View Post
For me, I try to boil down taking a drink to something very black and white. When I get a thought of taking a drink, I don't consider it a craving. It's a thought, a force of habit. My response? I don't drink. I don't believe we are powerless over the thought of taking a drink. It's a thought, that's all. A blip of words in our brain. If I decide to act and take that drink, I have made a choice. I give the thought of having a drink the same power as I do the thought of wearing short sleeves when it is warm out. The thought comes, I act on it. When I think of ordering a drink, I don't take action. When I think of stopping at the store for a bottle, I don't take action. This is how I think of it. I didn't give in to a monster. It didn't force me. If I drink, I made the choice. If I drink, I suffer the consequences.
You must be a lot stronger than me. I have a very difficult time not giving I to my cravings. What support do you use besides SR? Do you have a lot of supportive people around you? Just curious.
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:19 PM
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As always Serenidad, I want you to beat this!! Never give up!!
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:53 PM
  # 107 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Serenidad View Post
Absolutely I want to quit! If someone said "if you cut your leg off I will give you sobriety and happiness in return". I would take the offer. I know that will never happen though so I am gonna stay sober (by taking action) AND keep my leg!
This suggests that you're willing to do whatever is necessary in order to remain sober.

I'm no hero, I've never applied for sainthood, and I don't have it all figured out. None of that is necessary in order to achieve sobriety. I immersed myself in AA and in as much treatment as I could stand. With alcoholism, it's always better to err on the side of too much, than too little. I put my life on hold for more than a year in order to achieve sobriety. It was a slow and arduous process that was rife with cravings, despair, and what Aaron Beck refers to as the Cognitive/Depressive Triad: "I suck, my life sucks, and the future is dismal." These are, within the context of this thread, "alcoholic lies" that carry only the dubious "benefit" of allowing us to continue to drink. And, of course, that's what we do. Once we know we have a problem, continuing to drink is the big lie that we tell ourselves.

Debates about whether or not we're "recovered" or "recovering," about whether or not we're always "getting sober" or have "achieved sobriety" are fundamentally useless when the goal is to get sober. We know when we've recovered, and we know when we have not. We also know how to get there, despite our protests that we're "lost" or that we cannot or will not do whatever is necessary to achieve sobriety.

False starts, and as you commented, waiting for a "magic wand," haven't worked. This has been going on for more than a year. The early thrust of this thread was about your not taking suggestions, not taking actions on your own behalf; a veritable playground for cravings and eventual relapses. By not taking action, you've resigned yourself to live in a world of untreated alcoholism. It is little wonder that you feel "defenseless" against cravings, and it should no longer be a surprise when you pick up.

The remedy is much less aggressive than sacrificing a limb and is not at all violent. It works for millions of people. The only question is when you're willing to start.
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:32 PM
  # 108 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC View Post
This suggests that you're willing to do whatever is necessary in order to remain sober. I'm no hero, I've never applied for sainthood, and I don't have it all figured out. None of that is necessary in order to achieve sobriety. I immersed myself in AA and in as much treatment as I could stand. With alcoholism, it's always better to err on the side of too much, than too little. I put my life on hold for more than a year in order to achieve sobriety. It was a slow and arduous process that was rife with cravings, despair, and what Aaron Beck refers to as the Cognitive/Depressive Triad: "I suck, my life sucks, and the future is dismal." These are, within the context of this thread, "alcoholic lies" that carry only the dubious "benefit" of allowing us to continue to drink. And, of course, that's what we do. Once we know we have a problem, continuing to drink is the big lie that we tell ourselves. Debates about whether or not we're "recovered" or "recovering," about whether or not we're always "getting sober" or have "achieved sobriety" are fundamentally useless when the goal is to get sober. We know when we've recovered, and we know when we have not. We also know how to get there, despite our protests that we're "lost" or that we cannot or will not do whatever is necessary to achieve sobriety. False starts, and as you commented, waiting for a "magic wand," haven't worked. This has been going on for more than a year. The early thrust of this thread was about your not taking suggestions, not taking actions on your own behalf; a veritable playground for cravings and eventual relapses. By not taking action, you've resigned yourself to live in a world of untreated alcoholism. It is little wonder that you feel "defenseless" against cravings, and it should no longer be a surprise when you pick up. The remedy is much less aggressive than sacrificing a limb and is not at all violent. It works for millions of people. The only question is when you're willing to start.
You always have such wisdoms to share endgame. Thank you! When am I willing to start? Yesterday!!!

One recurring thing with me that I am finding is that I have so much "self-hatred"! I really despise myself and have since my relapse. Sometimes I wonder if part of why I have been struggling is I think subconsciously I am punishing myself. OR I am living up to what my mother always said I would be when I was a child...."a worthless piece of s-hit".

I guess it doesn't matter WHY. Right?
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:47 PM
  # 109 (permalink)  
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I think knowing why is a good thing. Once you get past the first bit of being sober and are feeling a bit stronger maybe therapy could be helpful?
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:56 PM
  # 110 (permalink)  
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Self Hatred is such a harsh word. Don't you
think? Hatred. No one likes to use that word
or should have have to use that word. It's so
ugly. Right?

We need to learn...learn how to change that
ugly word to a pleasant more appealing word.
A lovely, loveable, kind, caring considerate
word.

Many, including myself grew up with family
or friends verbally abusing us with ugly words
that hurt. They hurt us deep down to our very
being. We didn't deserve to be talked to or
treated by those we thought loved or cared
for us.

However, many of us had to learn that
we were raised by sick parents who in
their own addictions, sickness, illness
treated us badly and did the best they
could with whatever knowledge they
had to use at that time in their lives.

Or they didn't know any better, which
I would beg to differ on that. However,
being in recovery and thru the years have
learned to turn off those negative tapes
that was drilled into me as a child and replace
them with healthy, more positive one that
could and would build my self esteem, self-
worth, the person that I truly am meant to
be.

I used alcohol to numb many of those negative
childhood issues, verbal, physical, emotional
abuse sustained at the hand of a sick mother
and it nearly costed my life.

When I got into recovery and worked thru
all those issues I drank over, I became stronger
in my heart, mind and soul as well as regaining
my life to be a more healthier, happier person.

Today I own my life, my recovery and am
so grateful for it because no one can ever
take it away from me.

You can too.
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:37 PM
  # 111 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aasharon90 View Post
Self Hatred is such a harsh word. Don't you think? Hatred. No one likes to use that word or should have have to use that word. It's so ugly. Right? We need to learn...learn how to change that ugly word to a pleasant more appealing word. A lovely, loveable, kind, caring considerate word. Many, including myself grew up with family or friends verbally abusing us with ugly words that hurt. They hurt us deep down to our very being. We didn't deserve to be talked to or treated by those we thought loved or cared for us. However, many of us had to learn that we were raised by sick parents who in their own addictions, sickness, illness treated us badly and did the best they could with whatever knowledge they had to use at that time in their lives. Or they didn't know any better, which I would beg to differ on that. However, being in recovery and thru the years have learned to turn off those negative tapes that was drilled into me as a child and replace them with healthy, more positive one that could and would build my self esteem, self- worth, the person that I truly am meant to be. I used alcohol to numb many of those negative childhood issues, verbal, physical, emotional abuse sustained at the hand of a sick mother and it nearly costed my life. When I got into recovery and worked thru all those issues I drank over, I became stronger in my heart, mind and soul as well as regaining my life to be a more healthier, happier person. Today I own my life, my recovery and am so grateful for it because no one can ever take it away from me. You can too.
If you can do it then I can too. It's amazing how much our own mothers (or family) can hurt us. It leaves scars and pain that is unbearable. Alcohol....in a sense has SAVED my life. Without it at certain periods in my life, I'm sure I would have killed myself. The pain of the trauma I experienced was just too much to bear.

BUT...now the consequences of my drinking are more painful than the reasons (trauma, abuse, rape) etc. I drank. The consequences just aren't worth it anymore. Alcohol doesn't numb my pain anymore. It just adds to it. You know?
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:41 PM
  # 112 (permalink)  
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Hi Serenidad-

I read a book by Jason Vale called, 'Kick The Drink, Easily'. I have also read whatever else I can get my hands on about addiction/ sobriety. As far as support, I use SR, and the only person who knows in my life is my husband. Every one else is on a need to know basis. Although he is very proud of me, I am the one who had to want to quit drinking, you know? Can he keep me sober? Absolutely not.

For years he said, 'please don't drink tonight, ok'? He thought, if I cared enough about him and our family, it would be just that easy. And he thought, if I got smashed that night it was because I didn't love or respect him. You, me, and every other addict knows that has nothing to do with it. But I had to get to the point to accept that I can't ever pick up a drink again if I wanted a chance at a real life again. That took a lot of strength.

Acceptance was what I needed. I wish I knew exactly when that moment was- sometime on May 14th. Until that moment, I gave into cravings, that little voice....that little voice was more important than anything else.

Am I perfect? F-no. Not even close. I have a lot of work to do. I pretty much have pushed every person away bit by bit, instead choosing to isolate myself and get smashed with by best friend, Merlot.

Do I think I am immune from every drinking again? I may sound like a total smart-a$$ about my relationship with booze. However, I can't ever get that comfortable because as you and others know, it can happen.

Now that the booze is out of my system, I need to learn some methods with how to deal with emotions. I am researching counselors to start sessions so I can add tools to my toolbox.

I may sound harsh, but this is how I have to be with myself. When I kept thinking, but it's not that easy, I had a good day/ bad day so I have to get plastered- I was keeping drinking on the table.

I have only 40 some days into this. I have been drinking or using for over 20 years.

You have 5 entire years of sobriety. That. Is. Amazing.

Please be willing to do whatever it takes, Dear Serenidad. I am cheering for you!!!
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:55 PM
  # 113 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Dharma33 View Post
Hi Serenidad- I read a book by Jason Vale called, 'Kick The Drink, Easily'. I have also read whatever else I can get my hands on about addiction/ sobriety. As far as support, I use SR, and the only person who knows in my life is my husband. Every one else is on a need to know basis. Although he is very proud of me, I am the one who had to want to quit drinking, you know? Can he keep me sober? Absolutely not. For years he said, 'please don't drink tonight, ok'? He thought, if I cared enough about him and our family, it would be just that easy. And he thought, if I got smashed that night it was because I didn't love or respect him. You, me, and every other addict knows that has nothing to do with it. But I had to get to the point to accept that I can't ever pick up a drink again if I wanted a chance at a real life again. That took a lot of strength. Acceptance was what I needed. I wish I knew exactly when that moment was- sometime on May 14th. Until that moment, I gave into cravings, that little voice....that little voice was more important than anything else. Am I perfect? F-no. Not even close. I have a lot of work to do. I pretty much have pushed every person away bit by bit, instead choosing to isolate myself and get smashed with by best friend, Merlot. Do I think I am immune from every drinking again? I may sound like a total smart-a$$ about my relationship with booze. However, I can't ever get that comfortable because as you and others know, it can happen. Now that the booze is out of my system, I need to learn some methods with how to deal with emotions. I am researching counselors to start sessions so I can add tools to my toolbox. I may sound harsh, but this is how I have to be with myself. When I kept thinking, but it's not that easy, I had a good day/ bad day so I have to get plastered- I was keeping drinking on the table. I have only 40 some days into this. I have been drinking or using for over 20 years. You have 5 entire years of sobriety. That. Is. Amazing. Please be willing to do whatever it takes, Dear Serenidad. I am cheering for you!!!
Thanks Dharma. I HAD over 5 years of sobriety. Now I have about 46 hours.

I like what you said about taking alcohol off the table completely!

Counseling....yes I have had lots and need lots more.

One step at a time.

Congrats on your sober time! And thanks for your support.
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Old 06-28-2015, 02:47 AM
  # 114 (permalink)  
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Not that's it's any excuse to drink, and if I'm hard on myself about relapses I do better, but you still have 1,825 days out of 1,826 days sober. And that's nothing to write off!
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Old 06-28-2015, 09:39 AM
  # 115 (permalink)  
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Serenidad, I hope you are doing okay today. Thank you for taking the time to send me a message.

I am really amazed by the support on SR, so glad I landed here!

It took me 22 years to get back to sober living after my 6 precious years of working on recovery. Please don't be me
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:54 AM
  # 116 (permalink)  
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Hope to hear from you today Serenidad. Hope you are doing ok, but we know you are doing ok, right?
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:05 AM
  # 117 (permalink)  
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I second Thomas. Hope you check in today!
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:23 AM
  # 118 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=Serenidad;5441967]You always have such wisdoms to share endgame. Thank you! When am I willing to start? Yesterday!!!

If wisdom it is, then everyone who's learned from her struggle is wise. The thing is to actually engage our struggles, typically in ways we would not other wise choose to deal with them. Things tend get worse, often much worse, before they get better. If this were not the case, then everyone would achieve sobriety. Yet most people who put themselves through the process report that the struggle is worth it.

One recurring thing with me that I am finding is that I have so much "self-hatred"! I really despise myself and have since my relapse. Sometimes I wonder if part of why I have been struggling is I think subconsciously I am punishing myself. OR I am living up to what my mother always said I would be when I was a child...."a worthless piece of s-hit".
Identifying the problem is not the same thing as working through it. We all know this. The kinds of things you describe do not benefit from spontaneous remission. It sounds boring, unnecessary, distracting, painful, and hopeless to make it our life's work to build a life with meaning and purpose, and it often is some of those things, but what's the alternative? Engaging the process itself is life-affirming and allows for healing to occur. It's a calling that many deny, dismiss, or simply ignore. We need to come to a point in our lives when fear is no longer a good reason, when it becomes an excuse, to avoid doing what we need to do in order to bring us to a better place. Whether we accept this challenge or reject it, this is the final judgment that comes down in favor of either our being a success or failure with respect to approaching our potential as individuals. The opportunity for this kind of change, for courage, is always present to us, but it will not always be that way.

I've commented before that among the most heartbreaking experiences in life occurs when it dawns upon a person in older age or near the end of her life that so much of it was wasted, alcoholic or not. The thing is, we know this a long time before we finally acknowledge it, before we finally do something about it, and certainly a life filled with active alcoholism, with despair, screams this message to us over and over again.

I guess it doesn't matter WHY. Right?
It depends. Certainly in the beginning, the point is to put down the drink rather than to fuss over how this came about. Later on, to the extent that knowing "why" I drink enhances my sobriety and my ability to live a meaningful life, then it does matter, but knowing "why" is still nothing more than a loose framework within which we live our lives, and rarely the prime motivator to bring us to a better place. In some cases, knowing why only makes things worse.
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:31 AM
  # 119 (permalink)  
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My psychiatrist gave me a prescription for a medicine that stops alcohol cravings. I didn't try it yet but it's a new tool.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:09 AM
  # 120 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by thomas11 View Post
Hope to hear from you today Serenidad. Hope you are doing ok, but we know you are doing ok, right?
Hi Thomas and site,

I just saw this today. I really appreciate you checking in on me yesterday. It feels good to know people care. I'm hanging in there. Today is day 5. I've had a few thoughts of drinking today and am still extremely tired and cranky.

I always seem to drink again after 3-7 days so I feel like I'm waiting for a "monster" to jump out of the woods. Ugh! I just DON'T EVER WANT TO DRINK POISON AGAIN!

I'm going to an AA meeting tonite.
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