Where to get the motivation?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 186
Where to get the motivation?
I need to stop drinking. I am drinking more than I have ever done and am in the worst physical shape I have ever been in. However, the motivation to get started and make a plan is not there. I have had a few short periods of sobriety in the past and was most successful when I invested a lot into stopping drinking.
This is lame, but for the past 5 months, we have been getting building work done. I have found the disruption, decisions, cost etc very difficult and have' rewarded'myself with alcohol every night. I sweat and worry through the night then hide the empties in my car before the workmen arrive again. The work will continue for another couple of months. Every day I say I won't drink at night, then something happens about the building work to cause upset or worry and I decide I must drink.
When I think of 'making a plan' to not drink, I think I can't do it because the family routine is out of sync and I am not even making meals or dealing with laundry properly at the moment. I know that other people get sober when they are in dire circumstances, so my excuse is paltry. If I wait til the building work is over, I will be in worse shape and the next excuse will be that my job is entering a stressful period.
Where does the motivation come from to 'make a plan ' ?
This is lame, but for the past 5 months, we have been getting building work done. I have found the disruption, decisions, cost etc very difficult and have' rewarded'myself with alcohol every night. I sweat and worry through the night then hide the empties in my car before the workmen arrive again. The work will continue for another couple of months. Every day I say I won't drink at night, then something happens about the building work to cause upset or worry and I decide I must drink.
When I think of 'making a plan' to not drink, I think I can't do it because the family routine is out of sync and I am not even making meals or dealing with laundry properly at the moment. I know that other people get sober when they are in dire circumstances, so my excuse is paltry. If I wait til the building work is over, I will be in worse shape and the next excuse will be that my job is entering a stressful period.
Where does the motivation come from to 'make a plan ' ?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
Hi, Carly,
Doesn't sound like alcohol has proven to be much of a reward for you, as you note by placing it within quotes.
A few thoughts come to mind:
- Reframing sobriety as achieving freedom from alcohol rather than the punishment for not being able to drink like non-alcoholics helps.
- Make a list of all the benefits alcohol has provided in your life. Then make a list of all the bad stuff. Compare the two lists; keep them handy.
- Think of alcohol as completely and utterly off the table. As you note, we can always craft a "reason" in our minds. There's never a good reason for an alcoholic to drink and the only thing it will do reliably well is make matters worse.
Hang out on SR. Be active. There are people here who can empathize and help.
My No. 1 recommendation to anyone here is to join your "class" here on SR. Yours would be the newly opened Class of June 2015. The accountability and support you get from people in the same boat is remarkable. SR classes are one of the best features this site offers.
I've tended to notice that when folks post only here in the Newcomers Forum, they get a lot of attention and support, which is awesome. Joining a class prevails, though, upon us to listen more closely to what others are saying and offer support to them, too, as the journey is undertaken together. Alcoholism feeds on an "it's all about me" mindset that doesn't help us. Being in a class here on SR makes it "all about us" and I think there's something very powerful about that as we work to attain sobriety and live in recovery.
Hope that helps. Perhaps the most important point to remember is that you can do this. There are lots of folks here proving that on a daily basis -- living in the solution.
Doesn't sound like alcohol has proven to be much of a reward for you, as you note by placing it within quotes.
A few thoughts come to mind:
- Reframing sobriety as achieving freedom from alcohol rather than the punishment for not being able to drink like non-alcoholics helps.
- Make a list of all the benefits alcohol has provided in your life. Then make a list of all the bad stuff. Compare the two lists; keep them handy.
- Think of alcohol as completely and utterly off the table. As you note, we can always craft a "reason" in our minds. There's never a good reason for an alcoholic to drink and the only thing it will do reliably well is make matters worse.
Hang out on SR. Be active. There are people here who can empathize and help.
My No. 1 recommendation to anyone here is to join your "class" here on SR. Yours would be the newly opened Class of June 2015. The accountability and support you get from people in the same boat is remarkable. SR classes are one of the best features this site offers.
I've tended to notice that when folks post only here in the Newcomers Forum, they get a lot of attention and support, which is awesome. Joining a class prevails, though, upon us to listen more closely to what others are saying and offer support to them, too, as the journey is undertaken together. Alcoholism feeds on an "it's all about me" mindset that doesn't help us. Being in a class here on SR makes it "all about us" and I think there's something very powerful about that as we work to attain sobriety and live in recovery.
Hope that helps. Perhaps the most important point to remember is that you can do this. There are lots of folks here proving that on a daily basis -- living in the solution.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Originally Posted by Carlygirl 
I need to stop drinking.
Where does the motivation come from to 'make a plan ' ?
Where does the motivation come from to 'make a plan ' ?
Hi.
This may be rejected, I did for awhile because I was not honest with myself about my drinking.
I was told and have seen many examples of the following: ending up in an institution, prison, very miserable death or living a lost and miserable life.
That motivated me to be motivated.
BE WELL
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
I got the motivation to get sober by just being sick and tired of always being sick and tired. I was sick of waking up feeling horrible and hating myself. I wanted a better life and knew I couldn't have it if I was still drinking. I just wanted to actually live and not just exist between drinks.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 10
Hi, Carly
I was on a different forum when I quit but reading the stories of others and witnessing the AF lives they shared in threads made me want to BE THEM and gave me the confidence that I could. I had to leave my ego behind, ask questions of people I admired, and do what they said. I like figuring things out for myself but I just couldn't do it for this. As Venecia said, there is power in a group! All the best -
I was on a different forum when I quit but reading the stories of others and witnessing the AF lives they shared in threads made me want to BE THEM and gave me the confidence that I could. I had to leave my ego behind, ask questions of people I admired, and do what they said. I like figuring things out for myself but I just couldn't do it for this. As Venecia said, there is power in a group! All the best -
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
'Motivation' is more or less a vague concept, along the lines of 'love'. We cannot adequately describe it, but we know when it's present and when it's not there.
Motivation just as often arises or emerges when there is dysfunction or disequillibrium (i.e., subjective distress) within the system as it does when things are going well. Pain and pleasure are powerful motivators, but they often don't arrive until after we've taken actions on our own behalf.
I was "motivated" to stop drinking when I could no longer function on my own, but this is a broad interpretation of the word 'motivation'. I was essentially unable to perform simple self-care behaviors, and other simple behaviors such as continuing to drink. I only became motivated to stop drinking after I was sober for about four months or so, and it wasn't because I was feeling great, which I was not. Had I waited until I was motivated to put down the drink, I might still be drinking, or worse.
You've created a reward system that relies on alcohol to soothe your anxieties and soften your negative predictions. This is a dangerous schedule of reinforcement since alcohol has now taken a prominent place in how you respond to stress, and none of us easily or with any kind of enthusiasm relinquishes that which tempers our anxious moments, even when it hurts us in the long-term.
My concern is, and as you've anticipated in your comments, waiting to experience sufficient motivation to stop drinking will leave you in a much worse place than you currently are.
Motivation just as often arises or emerges when there is dysfunction or disequillibrium (i.e., subjective distress) within the system as it does when things are going well. Pain and pleasure are powerful motivators, but they often don't arrive until after we've taken actions on our own behalf.
I was "motivated" to stop drinking when I could no longer function on my own, but this is a broad interpretation of the word 'motivation'. I was essentially unable to perform simple self-care behaviors, and other simple behaviors such as continuing to drink. I only became motivated to stop drinking after I was sober for about four months or so, and it wasn't because I was feeling great, which I was not. Had I waited until I was motivated to put down the drink, I might still be drinking, or worse.
You've created a reward system that relies on alcohol to soothe your anxieties and soften your negative predictions. This is a dangerous schedule of reinforcement since alcohol has now taken a prominent place in how you respond to stress, and none of us easily or with any kind of enthusiasm relinquishes that which tempers our anxious moments, even when it hurts us in the long-term.
My concern is, and as you've anticipated in your comments, waiting to experience sufficient motivation to stop drinking will leave you in a much worse place than you currently are.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Waiting to be motivated to quit, waiting for the time to be right, waiting for it to be "easy" to decide to quit is just your addiction keeping you drinking. You are likely waiting for something that will never arrive, not in the form you are thinking that is going to make this any easier.
Just quit. Your motivation to live sober will catch up.
Just quit. Your motivation to live sober will catch up.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
I'm with Endgame & doggonecarl on this one.
Don't wait for motivation. Just quit.
The only thing that motivates you now is alcohol, which will eventually kill you, so you need to completely extinguish that motivation system by starving it.
You may feel deeply unmotivated for a while. But then you will find wonderful, healthy things that motivate you to live -- things that won't kill you.
Don't wait for motivation. Just quit.
The only thing that motivates you now is alcohol, which will eventually kill you, so you need to completely extinguish that motivation system by starving it.
You may feel deeply unmotivated for a while. But then you will find wonderful, healthy things that motivate you to live -- things that won't kill you.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi Carlygirl.
First off, let me say that I sympathize with you as I had experienced something similar in the past, over several years. That is why my SR sign up date is in 2010 and my sobriety date is in 2014. I see that you are not exactly new either. I personally disagree with ideas that devalue the importance of motivation, and lack thereof. It's not a diffuse idea at all, but something very real and powerful that basically defines us and drives us in life, both simply for the species to survive by satisfying basic needs and instincts such as feeding and reproduction, and "higher level" individual needs to live a good and satisfying life. We are strongly wired biologically in a way that motivation, and other "forces" that modulate it by inhibitory control or by impulses, define what we do as organic beings.
As you describe, the big problem in addiction is that seeking out our drug of choice takes over the motivation for natural rewards and when severe, even the fulfillment of basic needs. It's easy for people who have been sober for a significant amount of time to say that we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place. Not in my experience, and not in the many cases I have witnessed myself.
So how to find the motivation? See, this is where peer support and recovery programs are so important, because as addicts, our will powers typically seriously suffer and our motivational drives are heavily misplaced. This is why many of us can never get sober until we join a support group like SR, AA, and others, or in some cases, we go to places where we are externally supervised like in inpatient rehabs. And why structured programs, supervision, and support from more experienced people with recovery can be so helpful. That would be my suggestion for you to find motivation if you struggle on your own. Join something and develop consistent involvement and contribution, like daily, if you need multiple times. I personally did what Venecia suggested to kick it off: started out in a monthly class on SR. I found it very helpful and encouraging in the first month or so. Then I connected with specific others here I felt I clicked with quite well based on their comments. I am generally a very self-motivated and internally inspired person when healthy and sober, but badly needed that sort of help and interaction to keep me off the drink in the first few months. I also went to a few meetings.
Of course in the beginning, our motivation to stay sober fluctuates all over the map usually, but the daily interactions and getting deeply into trying out different recovery methods inspired me just enough to keep it up.
I believe that in order to maintain sobriety, our motivation to remain sober and start working on changing our lives need to outweigh the drinking urges, otherwise it won't work. So I suggest that you find some of these external things and people to help. SR is great, but do seek face to face support if you need it. As for making a plan, and what sort of plan -- SR is a great resource to shop around first if you can't decide easily on following a single program.
Dee usually recommends this link, I think it's a very good one for a selection of recovery plans and how to approach them:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
You can absolutely do it!
First off, let me say that I sympathize with you as I had experienced something similar in the past, over several years. That is why my SR sign up date is in 2010 and my sobriety date is in 2014. I see that you are not exactly new either. I personally disagree with ideas that devalue the importance of motivation, and lack thereof. It's not a diffuse idea at all, but something very real and powerful that basically defines us and drives us in life, both simply for the species to survive by satisfying basic needs and instincts such as feeding and reproduction, and "higher level" individual needs to live a good and satisfying life. We are strongly wired biologically in a way that motivation, and other "forces" that modulate it by inhibitory control or by impulses, define what we do as organic beings.
As you describe, the big problem in addiction is that seeking out our drug of choice takes over the motivation for natural rewards and when severe, even the fulfillment of basic needs. It's easy for people who have been sober for a significant amount of time to say that we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place. Not in my experience, and not in the many cases I have witnessed myself.
So how to find the motivation? See, this is where peer support and recovery programs are so important, because as addicts, our will powers typically seriously suffer and our motivational drives are heavily misplaced. This is why many of us can never get sober until we join a support group like SR, AA, and others, or in some cases, we go to places where we are externally supervised like in inpatient rehabs. And why structured programs, supervision, and support from more experienced people with recovery can be so helpful. That would be my suggestion for you to find motivation if you struggle on your own. Join something and develop consistent involvement and contribution, like daily, if you need multiple times. I personally did what Venecia suggested to kick it off: started out in a monthly class on SR. I found it very helpful and encouraging in the first month or so. Then I connected with specific others here I felt I clicked with quite well based on their comments. I am generally a very self-motivated and internally inspired person when healthy and sober, but badly needed that sort of help and interaction to keep me off the drink in the first few months. I also went to a few meetings.
Of course in the beginning, our motivation to stay sober fluctuates all over the map usually, but the daily interactions and getting deeply into trying out different recovery methods inspired me just enough to keep it up.
I believe that in order to maintain sobriety, our motivation to remain sober and start working on changing our lives need to outweigh the drinking urges, otherwise it won't work. So I suggest that you find some of these external things and people to help. SR is great, but do seek face to face support if you need it. As for making a plan, and what sort of plan -- SR is a great resource to shop around first if you can't decide easily on following a single program.
Dee usually recommends this link, I think it's a very good one for a selection of recovery plans and how to approach them:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
You can absolutely do it!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
I didn't feel motivated to quit when I did it, but I did it anyway.
Motivation to stay quit came after some time when I got through the worst of withdrawals and began feeling better.
You just have to do it and trust it is for your long-term good. . .
Motivation to stay quit came after some time when I got through the worst of withdrawals and began feeling better.
You just have to do it and trust it is for your long-term good. . .
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
Posts: 5,100
I had do dig deep down inside and find the part of me that wanted to live more than die.
I don't know if it's motivation, my god seed, etc. But finding out I had something left in me to fight with, saved me from the endless pit I was sinking in.
I don't know if it's motivation, my god seed, etc. But finding out I had something left in me to fight with, saved me from the endless pit I was sinking in.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Sorry I think the original link did not work. Here it is again:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
I can also add that I did not quit in an absolutely desperate state of life or death, when I had no other choice but get sober or die at that moment. I did because I found motivation to get started. I really suggest that you don't wait until you reach the worst imaginable losses and horrors, when the motivation becomes purely to just survive.
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
I can also add that I did not quit in an absolutely desperate state of life or death, when I had no other choice but get sober or die at that moment. I did because I found motivation to get started. I really suggest that you don't wait until you reach the worst imaginable losses and horrors, when the motivation becomes purely to just survive.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 462
My motivator came when I could no longer hide from myself I had a problem and when I realized I was putting alcohol ahead of my husband and kids. That lightbulb saved me. Seeing that lightbulb made me feel so guilty I wanted to end my life. I knew I could never go back! Be honest with yourself about what alcohol is doing to you and those you love that may give you the motivation you need.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by haennie
Hi Carlygirl.
First off, let me say that I sympathize with you as I had experienced something similar in the past, over several years. That is why my SR sign up date is in 2010 and my sobriety date is in 2014. I see that you are not exactly new either. I personally disagree with ideas that devalue the importance of motivation, and lack thereof. It's not a diffuse idea at all, but something very real and powerful that basically defines us and drives us in life, both simply for the species to survive by satisfying basic needs and instincts such as feeding and reproduction, and "higher level" individual needs to live a good and satisfying life. We are strongly wired biologically in a way that motivation, and other "forces" that modulate it by inhibitory control or by impulses, define what we do as organic beings.
As you describe, the big problem in addiction is that seeking out our drug of choice takes over the motivation for natural rewards and when severe, even the fulfillment of basic needs. It's easy for people who have been sober for a significant amount of time to say that we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place. Not in my experience, and not in the many cases I have witnessed myself.
So how to find the motivation? See, this is where peer support and recovery programs are so important, because as addicts, our will powers typically seriously suffer and our motivational drives are heavily misplaced. This is why many of us can never get sober until we join a support group like SR, AA, and others, or in some cases, we go to places where we are externally supervised like in inpatient rehabs. And why structured programs, supervision, and support from more experienced people with recovery can be so helpful. That would be my suggestion for you to find motivation if you struggle on your own. Join something and develop consistent involvement and contribution, like daily, if you need multiple times. I personally did what Venecia suggested to kick it off: started out in a monthly class on SR. I found it very helpful and encouraging in the first month or so. Then I connected with specific others here I felt I clicked with quite well based on their comments. I am generally a very self-motivated and internally inspired person when healthy and sober, but badly needed that sort of help and interaction to keep me off the drink in the first few months. I also went to a few meetings.
Of course in the beginning, our motivation to stay sober fluctuates all over the map usually, but the daily interactions and getting deeply into trying out different recovery methods inspired me just enough to keep it up.
I believe that in order to maintain sobriety, our motivation to remain sober and start working on changing our lives need to outweigh the drinking urges, otherwise it won't work. So I suggest that you find some of these external things and people to help. SR is great, but do seek face to face support if you need it. As for making a plan, and what sort of plan -- SR is a great resource to shop around first if you can't decide easily on following a single program.
Dee usually recommends this link, I think it's a very good one for a selection of recovery plans and how to approach them:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
You can absolutely do it!
First off, let me say that I sympathize with you as I had experienced something similar in the past, over several years. That is why my SR sign up date is in 2010 and my sobriety date is in 2014. I see that you are not exactly new either. I personally disagree with ideas that devalue the importance of motivation, and lack thereof. It's not a diffuse idea at all, but something very real and powerful that basically defines us and drives us in life, both simply for the species to survive by satisfying basic needs and instincts such as feeding and reproduction, and "higher level" individual needs to live a good and satisfying life. We are strongly wired biologically in a way that motivation, and other "forces" that modulate it by inhibitory control or by impulses, define what we do as organic beings.
As you describe, the big problem in addiction is that seeking out our drug of choice takes over the motivation for natural rewards and when severe, even the fulfillment of basic needs. It's easy for people who have been sober for a significant amount of time to say that we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place. Not in my experience, and not in the many cases I have witnessed myself.
So how to find the motivation? See, this is where peer support and recovery programs are so important, because as addicts, our will powers typically seriously suffer and our motivational drives are heavily misplaced. This is why many of us can never get sober until we join a support group like SR, AA, and others, or in some cases, we go to places where we are externally supervised like in inpatient rehabs. And why structured programs, supervision, and support from more experienced people with recovery can be so helpful. That would be my suggestion for you to find motivation if you struggle on your own. Join something and develop consistent involvement and contribution, like daily, if you need multiple times. I personally did what Venecia suggested to kick it off: started out in a monthly class on SR. I found it very helpful and encouraging in the first month or so. Then I connected with specific others here I felt I clicked with quite well based on their comments. I am generally a very self-motivated and internally inspired person when healthy and sober, but badly needed that sort of help and interaction to keep me off the drink in the first few months. I also went to a few meetings.
Of course in the beginning, our motivation to stay sober fluctuates all over the map usually, but the daily interactions and getting deeply into trying out different recovery methods inspired me just enough to keep it up.
I believe that in order to maintain sobriety, our motivation to remain sober and start working on changing our lives need to outweigh the drinking urges, otherwise it won't work. So I suggest that you find some of these external things and people to help. SR is great, but do seek face to face support if you need it. As for making a plan, and what sort of plan -- SR is a great resource to shop around first if you can't decide easily on following a single program.
Dee usually recommends this link, I think it's a very good one for a selection of recovery plans and how to approach them:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
You can absolutely do it!
Suicide removes the "weakest" from our species, but it is an individual act that is not easily explained by biology alone. Human beings have the gift and the burden of a type of consciousness that is more or less analogous to consciousness among other species, but it is not quite the same. The continued ingestion of an extremely toxic substance mitigates against a primarily biological model for alcoholism in which survival of the species trumps all other aspects of living. If we have to "find" motivation, rather than summon it up naturally (and immediately) or experience it as an automatic process by virtue of our being, then how is it that we "lose" it in the first place?
"Social Darwinism" and the term "survival of the fittest" are attributed to Herbert Spencer, a British philosopher who was working on his own theories of evolution in terms of social behaviors prior to Darwin's publication. In terms of what Spencer described as "Social Darwinism," members of the species compete for limited resources, and only the strongest survive. Alcoholics and addicts are considered to be among "the weak," as are others who are also mentally, physically, socially and even financially infirm or unstable. They are thought to essentially die off over time in large numbers due to their own limitations so that they will no longer reproduce as a means of both maintaining and strengthening the species.
Alcoholism is something that we struggle with and is treated on an individual level. Survival of the individual is subsumed by addiction, the need to consume potentially lethal substances as a means of "surviving" individual conditions such as anxiety, depression and fear despite its adverse effects in terms of physical and mental health and, ultimately, survival itself.
I also don't see where anyone commented that "we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place."
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
A lot of people are motivated by dui's, divorce, losing your children, heart attacks, liver disease, pacreatitus, going to jail, physical injury to yourself or others, job loss, suicide or any of the wonderful things that are inevitable motivators for alcoholics.
The time to quit is this second. Reach out to AA or professional help before your drinking causes a problem that can't be fixed
The time to quit is this second. Reach out to AA or professional help before your drinking causes a problem that can't be fixed
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 13,044
Originally Posted by haennie
Sorry I think the original link did not work. Here it is again:
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
I can also add that I did not quit in an absolutely desperate state of life or death, when I had no other choice but get sober or die at that moment. I did because I found motivation to get started. I really suggest that you don't wait until you reach the worst imaginable losses and horrors, when the motivation becomes purely to just survive.
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/conten...0/SMA-3720.pdf
I can also add that I did not quit in an absolutely desperate state of life or death, when I had no other choice but get sober or die at that moment. I did because I found motivation to get started. I really suggest that you don't wait until you reach the worst imaginable losses and horrors, when the motivation becomes purely to just survive.
Good luck Carly!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 186
Thank you all for your replies.
Posting, after all these months has been the motivator to have my first night of freedom from alcohol for as long as I can remember. I have joined the class of June 2015 as suggested. Thank you
Posting, after all these months has been the motivator to have my first night of freedom from alcohol for as long as I can remember. I have joined the class of June 2015 as suggested. Thank you
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
In terms of species and on a predominantly or exclusively biological level, survival is most certainly a powerful motivator. Within the context of this thread, or alcoholism generally, and given the vagaries and variations of individual feelings, thought processes and behaviors, I don't believe that this applies so generally to human beings as it does with other species.
Suicide removes the "weakest" from our species, but it is an individual act that is not easily explained by biology alone. Human beings have the gift and the burden of a type of consciousness that is more or less analogous to consciousness among other species, but it is not quite the same. The continued ingestion of an extremely toxic substance mitigates against a primarily biological model for alcoholism in which survival of the species trumps all other aspects of living. If we have to "find" motivation, rather than summon it up naturally (and immediately) or experience it as an automatic process by virtue of our being, then how is it that we "lose" it in the first place?
"Social Darwinism" and the term "survival of the fittest" are attributed to Herbert Spencer, a British philosopher who was working on his own theories of evolution in terms of social behaviors prior to Darwin's publication. In terms of what Spencer described as "Social Darwinism," members of the species compete for limited resources, and only the strongest survive. Alcoholics and addicts are considered to be among "the weak," as are others who are also mentally, physically, socially and even financially infirm or unstable. They are thought to essentially die off over time in large numbers due to their own limitations so that they will no longer reproduce as a means of both maintaining and strengthening the species.
Alcoholism is something that we struggle with and is treated on an individual level. Survival of the individual is subsumed by addiction, the need to consume potentially lethal substances as a means of "surviving" individual conditions such as anxiety, depression and fear despite its adverse effects in terms of physical and mental health and, ultimately, survival itself.
I also don't see where anyone commented that "we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place."
Suicide removes the "weakest" from our species, but it is an individual act that is not easily explained by biology alone. Human beings have the gift and the burden of a type of consciousness that is more or less analogous to consciousness among other species, but it is not quite the same. The continued ingestion of an extremely toxic substance mitigates against a primarily biological model for alcoholism in which survival of the species trumps all other aspects of living. If we have to "find" motivation, rather than summon it up naturally (and immediately) or experience it as an automatic process by virtue of our being, then how is it that we "lose" it in the first place?
"Social Darwinism" and the term "survival of the fittest" are attributed to Herbert Spencer, a British philosopher who was working on his own theories of evolution in terms of social behaviors prior to Darwin's publication. In terms of what Spencer described as "Social Darwinism," members of the species compete for limited resources, and only the strongest survive. Alcoholics and addicts are considered to be among "the weak," as are others who are also mentally, physically, socially and even financially infirm or unstable. They are thought to essentially die off over time in large numbers due to their own limitations so that they will no longer reproduce as a means of both maintaining and strengthening the species.
Alcoholism is something that we struggle with and is treated on an individual level. Survival of the individual is subsumed by addiction, the need to consume potentially lethal substances as a means of "surviving" individual conditions such as anxiety, depression and fear despite its adverse effects in terms of physical and mental health and, ultimately, survival itself.
I also don't see where anyone commented that "we don't need motivation to quit, just quit, and everything else falls in place."
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
Originally Posted by Carlygirl
Thank you all for your replies.
Posting, after all these months has been the motivator to have my first night of freedom from alcohol for as long as I can remember. I have joined the class of June 2015 as suggested. Thank you
Posting, after all these months has been the motivator to have my first night of freedom from alcohol for as long as I can remember. I have joined the class of June 2015 as suggested. Thank you
Our lives had to hurt for us to take the plunge and join SR (or become active again). The wonderful thing: There is great hope to be shared here. We're here for you and I am so glad you joined your class, too.
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