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Why Won't the AV Shut Up!!

Old 05-25-2015, 06:42 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Congrats on the 77 days. That's huge in itself.
I suppose anything that helps with the nerves helps with dealing with the av as well. Something like cayenne pepper and milk thistle for example. Some spices and herbs have been found to aid with addictions, so maybe versus the av too.

Just to add one thing. After I stopped using caffeine altogether, and it was pretty tough, I think I noticed an overall reduction of all craving for alcohol. Maybe it was imagined, but I think there is a link. And many stop caffeine when they detox since it can also make you more nervous, jittery, anxious etc. further disrupt the sleep and so on.

I never won by arguing or tangling with the av. Propably the only thing to do is to ignore it and accept that it will pass at some point. Good luck.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:06 AM
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Glad to hear all went well.
We always say we would like to visit Chicago, and partly( for me ) just to try some authentic deep dish pizza , born and raised east coaster here , so it seems like a totally different animal. In my mind's eye that place sounded great little divey great food and maybe Jake and Elwood on stage ?
Great job and keep truckin, keep kickin that AV butt , starve it out you got this
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trachemys View Post
AV! Shaddup! There, did that help?
Lol! It actually did, thanks Trach!
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by UnixBer View Post
Congrats on the 77 days. That's huge in itself. I suppose anything that helps with the nerves helps with dealing with the av as well. Something like cayenne pepper and milk thistle for example. Some spices and herbs have been found to aid with addictions, so maybe versus the av too. Just to add one thing. After I stopped using caffeine altogether, and it was pretty tough, I think I noticed an overall reduction of all craving for alcohol. Maybe it was imagined, but I think there is a link. And many stop caffeine when they detox since it can also make you more nervous, jittery, anxious etc. further disrupt the sleep and so on. I never won by arguing or tangling with the av. Propably the only thing to do is to ignore it and accept that it will pass at some point. Good luck.
Thank you for the suggestion UnixBer! You know, when I quit smoking I used a product called QuitTea and I think it had valerian root in it and other herbs which made quitting a lot easier since it physically relaxed during cravings. I think I might start trying that when I'm in a bar or any other place that triggers my cravings.

You're probably right about the caffeine. I drink way too much caffeine and the days where I limit it, like Sundays, I notice the AV is a lot quieter. I go back and forth with quitting caffeine altogether though. Sometimes I think, I can't have any alcohol or tobacco, do I have to give up coffee now too? Lol. But it probably would be good for me to start cutting back

Thank you for the suggestion on the herbs and spices! Do you know any other herbs and spices that help with cravings or create a calm feeling?

Thank you again for the advice, UnixBer
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
Glad to hear all went well. We always say we would like to visit Chicago, and partly( for me ) just to try some authentic deep dish pizza , born and raised east coaster here , so it seems like a totally different animal. In my mind's eye that place sounded great little divey great food and maybe Jake and Elwood on stage ? Great job and keep truckin, keep kickin that AV butt , starve it out you got this
Yes, Chicago has the BEST pizza. I'm biased of course because I've lived here my whole life, but places like Giordanos and Gino's East I just don't think can be beat in the deep dish department. If you're actually looking into visiting, I would strongly suggest coming in July during Taste of Chicago. It's packed with people of course, but you'll get to experience all of Chicago's best food (and pizzas) in one place! Like I said, I've lived here my whole life and I still go each year. The place was a great experience and it was a lot easier thanks to you and everyone else
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:19 PM
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Alcohol is not available to you anymore, Kafkaesque, but you traded that for a life that is full of new experiences and challenges and triumphs and successes and pleasures. You made that choice, and it is a good one, it is the right one. It is a choice you will never ever regret, and good lord, we have way too many regrets, if you are like me.

That AV, if you are willing to call it that, cannot put alcohol in you. It can only whine and plead and bargain and beg and lie. It will do that because that is its nature, its reason for being. But that is all it can do. It can't even feed itself.

Accept it for what it is, because it is. Once you can do that, it is finished. It becomes separate from you, something you can observe with nothing more than curiosity. It has lost any control over you, because you have that control simply by saying so.

Once you do that, you become a badass, truly a force of life and nature. You become a force of creativity and generosity and nuture that can achieve great things. Onward!
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Old 05-26-2015, 06:04 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by realE View Post
I am new hear and fearful of jumping in with advice. But, I visualize my AV as limited to a certain spot in my brain. He is in a cage and not matter how rip roaring loud he gets he cannot get out unless I feed him the alcohol he wants. Because if he gets out he takes over everything. So while he has permanent space and I hope he starves to death eventually, I cannot feed him - not one drink -I don't know what will happen but it won't be good and never worth it!
great advice
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Alcohol is not available to you anymore, Kafkaesque, but you traded that for a life that is full of new experiences and challenges and triumphs and successes and pleasures. You made that choice, and it is a good one, it is the right one. It is a choice you will never ever regret, and good lord, we have way too many regrets, if you are like me. That AV, if you are willing to call it that, cannot put alcohol in you. It can only whine and plead and bargain and beg and lie. It will do that because that is its nature, its reason for being. But that is all it can do. It can't even feed itself. Accept it for what it is, because it is. Once you can do that, it is finished. It becomes separate from you, something you can observe with nothing more than curiosity. It has lost any control over you, because you have that control simply by saying so. Once you do that, you become a badass, truly a force of life and nature. You become a force of creativity and generosity and nuture that can achieve great things. Onward!
Thank you FreshStart! Your comment about accepting it for what it is really struck something with me. I've made the decision for long term sobriety but I don't think I have 100% accepted that it is what it is yet. There's something still in me that the AV is feeding off of. I would say I have accepted drinking will never be apart of my life again 99%. I don't drink. I don't hesitate in the liquor aisles anymore. But I still remember alcohol fondly. I still occasionally envision myself meeting with friends for a martini on Friday nights. I think that's proof I haven't completely let go of alcohol. I am not sure how to truly accept that the AV has no power over me. I am not sure how to totally rule out alcohol from my future. I know that's what I want more than anything. I won't drink. I know I won't. I just don't know how to connect that thought to the part of my brain that the AV has taken over. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you again for your help your post really helped me realize something I hadn't been able to see yet.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:34 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque View Post
I won't drink. I know I won't. I just don't know how to connect that thought to the part of my brain that the AV has taken over.
I'm not sure it can be done. In fact, I doubt that it can be, but I no longer worry about it. I am content knowing my AV can NOT connect to the part of my brain that controls my actions.

Sometimes I feel like drinking. Sometimes I feel like throwing my stapler at my boss's head. Sometimes I feel like running idiot drivers off the road. Sometimes I see a hottie and feel like breaking my marriage vows. I can't control how I feel, but I can 100% control what I DO.

You got this.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:43 PM
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Sometimes I feel like throwing my stapler at my boss's head. Sometimes I feel like running idiot drivers off the road. Sometimes I see a hottie and feel like breaking my marriage vows. I can't control how I feel, but I can 100% control what I DO.


That is great! You just do it. I think. This may sound crazy but I feel equal parts fab and crap today. After my first drink free week in like 6 years. I planned my next drink today. I can have a cocktail of my choice when I am 88. That will be double my age now. I guess that is what I told my AV. You can have a drink in 44 years. Now shut up and go lay down and wait patiently. Cause you are really getting on my nerves. Maybe that is stupid or bad advice to tell myself this little tale. But, after applying all the logic to my past behavior, it helped me to say that I doubted I would be ok to try it before then.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by realE View Post
that is what I told my AV. You can have a drink in 44 years. Now shut up and go lay down and wait patiently.
When I first started gaining separation between myself and my addiction I noted that if I said "I am never drinking again" I would get a small twinge of panic.

However, if I said "I will not drink for 75 years" (at which point I will be 125) no panic.

To me that meant that my AV doesn't really understand any concept of time except never.

I have since realized that anything that makes my AV send me a wave of panic has an extraordinarily high probability of being the best course of action.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:07 PM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I am not sure how to truly accept that the AV has no power over me. I am not sure how to totally rule out alcohol from my future. I know that's what I want more than anything. I won't drink. I know I won't. I just don't know how to connect that thought to the part of my brain that the AV has taken over. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Kafkaesque, things got much simpler and easier for me when I accepted that I would get urges to drink once in a while, and that it really didn't matter any more what form those thoughts took, it was not going to matter a rat's pitoot to my sobriety. I decided that no matter how happy or sad I might become, my drinking days were over as of that last drink. For ever. I decided 'forever' because I wanted the life I could have only if I never took another drink. I made it either/or, black/white.

By doing it like this, there was going to be no arguing, or bargaining, or white knuckling, or will power. The question of 'Will I drink again' gets the answer 'don't even bother asking because I refuse to hear it'. I have already decided what the answer is, and what the answer will always be. I am never going to drink again and I am not ever going to change my decision. Bang! Done.

I stopped being afraid of my addictive voice, dreading it, allowing myself to become uncomfortable because of it. I did this by accepting it. That's what it does because that's what it is. And accepting the existence of what is makes life a lot more enjoyable. Less acid stomach if you know what I mean.

Believe in yourself, Kafkaesque. Believe you deserve this. Believe you will succeed. And recognize that any thought to the contrary as coming from the same place as an urge to drink, because those thoughts of inadequacy or inability or unworthiness will lead back to drinking just as surely as that romanticized glass of cabernet, single malt or craft brew. Those thoughts are from the past, from a time when you took the advice of that AV just so you could feel that rush of deep pleasure as the buzz started.

The drive to again feel that pleasure is misplaced, because, for me at least, drinking became about anxiety and depresson and sadness and shame and guilt. That pleasurable feeling is simply gone and never to be had again. That is what is.

You got this, I feel it, Kafkaesque. You will succeed.

So - here is the $64,000 question: Are you ready to make your plan about continuing to use alcohol?
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:25 PM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Kafkaesque View Post
Thank you for the suggestion on the herbs and spices! Do you know any other herbs and spices that help with cravings or create a calm feeling?
I've used Hibiscus in tea form to lower blood pressure. There's Gotu Kola (no caffeine involved) that is generally good for calming down, concentration and anti-brainfog, so I use that every now and then. Raw garlic is good for detoxing and so on.

There are some relaxant type herbs such as that valerian, names like skullcap, even dandelion and the chamomile. Chamomile has worked but for some reason I get groggy and tired for drinking maybe too much of it at once. It's pretty sedating/relaxing and considered safe.

I'm sure there's a lot of those herbs if you have the time to look up some herbal dictionaries online etc. Some herbs may interact with certain medications though, so it's good to make sure if you got some meds going...
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Nonsensical View Post
I'm not sure it can be done. In fact, I doubt that it can be, but I no longer worry about it. I am content knowing my AV can NOT connect to the part of my brain that controls my actions. Sometimes I feel like drinking. Sometimes I feel like throwing my stapler at my boss's head. Sometimes I feel like running idiot drivers off the road. Sometimes I see a hottie and feel like breaking my marriage vows. I can't control how I feel, but I can 100% control what I DO. You got this.
Thanks Nonsensical! You're right about not being able to control but I can definitely control my reactions to said thoughts. I recently read a comment where someone said they were raised to believe that your first thought is what you have been conditioned to think; what you think after is what defines you. I very much like that Thank you again!
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by realE View Post
Sometimes I feel like throwing my stapler at my boss's head. Sometimes I feel like running idiot drivers off the road. Sometimes I see a hottie and feel like breaking my marriage vows. I can't control how I feel, but I can 100% control what I DO. That is great! You just do it. I think. This may sound crazy but I feel equal parts fab and crap today. After my first drink free week in like 6 years. I planned my next drink today. I can have a cocktail of my choice when I am 88. That will be double my age now. I guess that is what I told my AV. You can have a drink in 44 years. Now shut up and go lay down and wait patiently. Cause you are really getting on my nerves. Maybe that is stupid or bad advice to tell myself this little tale. But, after applying all the logic to my past behavior, it helped me to say that I doubted I would be ok to try it before then.
Thank you RealE. I think I'll definitely apply that same logic to myself and tell the AV I can drink when I'm 90 and not a minute before. It's just hard listening to myself sometimes, you know? Like I understand the logic behind it all and completely agree with everything you and Nonsensical said, sometimes it's just hard to listen to myself as I'm telling myself that. It's like I have the devil (AV) and angel (sobriety) on my shoulders lol.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Kafkaesque, things got much simpler and easier for me when I accepted that I would get urges to drink once in a while, and that it really didn't matter any more what form those thoughts took, it was not going to matter a rat's pitoot to my sobriety. I decided that no matter how happy or sad I might become, my drinking days were over as of that last drink. For ever. I decided 'forever' because I wanted the life I could have only if I never took another drink. I made it either/or, black/white. By doing it like this, there was going to be no arguing, or bargaining, or white knuckling, or will power. The question of 'Will I drink again' gets the answer 'don't even bother asking because I refuse to hear it'. I have already decided what the answer is, and what the answer will always be. I am never going to drink again and I am not ever going to change my decision. Bang! Done. I stopped being afraid of my addictive voice, dreading it, allowing myself to become uncomfortable because of it. I did this by accepting it. That's what it does because that's what it is. And accepting the existence of what is makes life a lot more enjoyable. Less acid stomach if you know what I mean. Believe in yourself, Kafkaesque. Believe you deserve this. Believe you will succeed. And recognize that any thought to the contrary as coming from the same place as an urge to drink, because those thoughts of inadequacy or inability or unworthiness will lead back to drinking just as surely as that romanticized glass of cabernet, single malt or craft brew. Those thoughts are from the past, from a time when you took the advice of that AV just so you could feel that rush of deep pleasure as the buzz started. The drive to again feel that pleasure is misplaced, because, for me at least, drinking became about anxiety and depresson and sadness and shame and guilt. That pleasurable feeling is simply gone and never to be had again. That is what is. You got this, I feel it, Kafkaesque. You will succeed. So - here is the $64,000 question: Are you ready to make your plan about continuing to use alcohol?
FreshStart, first of all thank you for everything you said. I noticed in your tag line you've used AVRT and I really think I'm going to look into that this weekend. I've had it recommended to me in the past but I've just always thought that it's one more thing to add to my infinitely growing to do list. But it sounds like you've really accepted your sobriety and conquered your AV and on top of all of that, found peace with it all! I want that.

You know when your ex broke up with you and for weeks and months (and for some possibly years) you have this loneliness and you're aching for them each morning and throughout the day? And then eventually it lessens to maybe only once a day. And then one morning you wake up feeling happy and LIBERATED like finally you have been rid of that anchor? That's how you sound about alcohol. I want that. I want that more than anything in the world. And what you've said makes a lot of sense. I've been trying to do other things when the AV creeps up, such as reading or running or posting on SR. It all helps and I deal with the urges rather than pushing them away but it's almost like sometimes I can taste that vodka tonic just looking at someone else's. And I know the AV is a dirty liar. My alcoholism made me truly unhappy, my marriage was a wreck (little did I know or care at the time), my health was deteriorating, I mean I know that feeling of regret the morning after blowing months of sobriety. I refuse to ever feel like that again.

But sometimes I wish I knew a trick to my brain... A way to accept alcohol is out. I know it's not an option I've created a barrier in my mind almost like a teenager has the physical inability to purchase alcohol that's how i think about it. But the unwanted and distorted nostalgia over the drinking days... I want to accept that they were awful and there is no happiness there and that my life without truly is better. This might sound dumb but it's that I know my life is better and I am happier now that I'm sober but some tiny part of me still doubts that. I think maybe I just need more time?

How long did it take you to truly accept your new life?
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by UnixBer View Post
I've used Hibiscus in tea form to lower blood pressure. There's Gotu Kola (no caffeine involved) that is generally good for calming down, concentration and anti-brainfog, so I use that every now and then. Raw garlic is good for detoxing and so on. There are some relaxant type herbs such as that valerian, names like skullcap, even dandelion and the chamomile. Chamomile has worked but for some reason I get groggy and tired for drinking maybe too much of it at once. It's pretty sedating/relaxing and considered safe. I'm sure there's a lot of those herbs if you have the time to look up some herbal dictionaries online etc. Some herbs may interact with certain medications though, so it's good to make sure if you got some meds going...
I think dandelion and chamomile were also both in my quit tea! I will say, the tea worked like a charm and actually got me through the teeth clenching period of smoking but after I drank a cup it was a good hour before I could focus on work again lol. I'll look into those and making sure they don't have any impacts on my medications! Thank you for all the wonderful suggestions I'm in certain medications for my ADHD so sometimes they make me high strung and I think that might also be feeding into the urges, just like caffeine might be.

Thank you again UnixBer!
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:09 AM
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I just want to say THANK YOU ALL for helping me these past few days. I really don't know what I would do without everyone here. There are some days I'm not sure how I'll get through without another relapse but you all not only remind me of things I knew and forgot but you also teach me new ways to deal and get better. You guys are the best
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:28 AM
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That 'brain hack' you are looking for exists and it might work for you. That is what AVRT is. There is lots more info about it and some great discussion on the topic in the Secular Connections forum.
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