pattyj

I have a troubled relationship with my mom and I have tried really hard over the last 4 or 5 months to pretty much stay away from her. I had a talk with her about not being able to be around her when she is drinking and I can count on one hand how many times I have seen her since Christmas. It's actually less than one hand and we live 20 minutes apart. I saw her for Mother's Day and while everyone had a great sober time, it was obvious that she had something in her drink. I don't call her on the phone because if I call after 4pm she is already drunk and even when I do talk to her she either criticizes me or doesn't listen. She called me yesterday and gave me a guilt trip about not talking to me very often. So feeling guilty for that I told her a few things that were happening in my life. She criticized me for a couple of things and then was just not listening to anything else. I had to ask to see if she was still on the other end. How can she make me feel so guilty and then so mad? I have come a long ways in staying away from her and telling her that I can't be around her when she is drinking but I still have so much work to do. It is so hard to remove your mother from your life. She wasn't the best mom but she is still my mom and has this grasp on me that I can't get rid of. Is this some sort of co-dependent thing I have with her or is it me just not having the balls to remove myself completely from her life. Any thoughts would help. Is this something al-anon would help with at all or is it for a therapist? Thanks so much!

Anna

I can understand your feelings and it's not a fun situation to be in. Like you, I went back and forth - sometimes I would be able to keep things to myself and then other times I would share things with my mother. Every single time I did, it turned out badly. But, I continued to try because I wanted the relationship with her so badly.

When I stopped drinking, I knew I had to put up a strong boundary around her and I did. We didn't live geographically close, but she would often phone and I would talk about the weather, etc, but never about anything happening in my life. It was hard for me to accept that it had to be that way, but once I did, I began feeling much better.

I think you need to work out how much contact you want with your mother. Try to remember to put your needs first. I do believe (at least for me) this is codependency, so it's possible that therapy could help.

aasharon90

Yes, it is hard to remove a parent that
is sick from our lives and yes, we can
have balls so to speak to become strong
enough to do whatever we need to do
to take care of ourselves and become
healthy in our own lives even if it means
cutting all ties with that sick person or
that dysfunctional environment.

I finally took that step from my own
mom and family about 5 yrs ago when
finally I had had enough trying to have
something I wanted in my life and it just
was not meant to be as sad as it may seem.

I have been in recovery and living
a healthy recovery life because of
the choices I have had to make for
myself including my separation and
all contact from my unhealthy family
source.

My sobriety, serenity, healthy, peace
of mine requires me to go to any lengths
to achieve it and to remain that way for
for many one days at a time sober.

Today I place all people, places or
things into the Hands of my HP -
Higher Power of my understanding
for care and safe keeping as I have
no control over them or they.

In doing so, I can concentrate on my
own sobriety living and encorperating
a useful effective recovery program
in my everyday affairs then passing
it on to others.

Iconoclastic

No relationship is one sided and for harmony, compromise is the issue in any relationship.

For me to get rid of my shame and feelings of guilt I needed to be clear on my intentions for compromise, other wise I remained co-dependant.

If I'm honest with my intentions and we remain at an impasse, I've done my part. The key to the 9th and 10th Steps is doing my part ONLY, I can't do someone else's part, I can't fix others, I can't live my life through others while my life remains on hold. If others don't do their part, I learned to detach from them, so I could live my life shame and guilt free.

pattyj

Thank you for all of your advice. I will definitely be going back to see my therapist for this. I do agree that it is codependent. I am depending on my mom for something that she just can't give me.
This has been the hardest part of recovery, dealing with my relationship with my mom. It was always in the back of my mind when I was drinking that we had a messed up relationship but now it's come to the forefront and I have to do something about it.
My mom has never been told no by anyone in our family so just doing what I have done so far is groudbreaking but I have a lot more work to do to make sure that I am okay. It's so frustrating that we have to deal with someone like this so close to us. When I got sober I thought that everything would be better. And most of it is by leaps and bounds but there is this one thing that just got really much worse.
And it's not something that I can be coached on or told how to do. I have to figure it out on my own and do what's best for me. I am just not confident enough to stand up for myself and fight for what I think is best for me; it's always been about her and what she wants.
Thanks again everyone! SR truly is one of the best things!!

Iconoclastic

My father saw action during WWII; he was flying the B29’s in the South Pacific when I was born. My mother said in some ways after he came back from the war, he wasn’t the same man she married. He suffered from what’s call today PTSD, which most likely caused his alcoholism.

During their many arguments over my father’s drinking, finally my mother threatened to devoice him unless he stopped, which he had for many years. But, before he stopped drinking, their arguments hurt me deeply for two reasons. Firstly, I didn’t want my mother and father to divorce. Secondly, due to being raised Roman Catholic I believed at that time where the church taught that marriage was forever until death, so I didn’t want shame to fall on me and my family.

My father was very smart, an intellectual. He was a perfectionist. He could ace any test. He expected me to at least make the honor roll, A’s and B’s, but I couldn’t always live –up to that standard. However, I discovered early on my talent for sports, just about any sport I tried I excelled. I was a sub-5 minute miler in middle school and a very competitive swimmer, later in high school I excelled at wrestling.

Besides my talent and the attention I got through sports, the major reason for my need to win (first place) was for my father’s approval. He would say to me when I didn’t win first place and got a second or third, “first place is the ONLY place that counts, 2nd and 3rd are the booby prizes. All I wanted was my father’s love, but a lot of men in those days were afraid to show or express love.

My father wasn’t being malicious, because he believed that pushing me to perfection would make me a strong man. Instead it made me a man with a lot of self-doubt to the point of low self-esteem, especially due to the fact that I grew-up in Boston, the center of academia. In my day, sports didn’t have near the prestige it has today, it was academia that was important of which I didn’t measure up very well.

Even though intellectually I know perfectionism doesn’t work, emotionally it took me years to match my intellect with my gut and stop being so hard on myself. This happened after I finally got my father’s approval. How I achieved it, was I gave it to myself and Al-Anon and Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACoA) helped.

BTW, I’ve known 100’s of male alcoholics and not one had a loving nurturing relationship with their father. All were seeking their father’s approval, even years after their father died. This is one reason why alcoholics are such big approval seekers.

bookmaven

Also check in the Friends and Family section of this forum.

There is lots of support there too.

Sasha4

I have the drunken phone call experience too with my mum.
I have a younger sister who also has had years of putting up with them too.

My sister described the phone calls as similar to running nails down a blackboard in how horrid they were.

We both now say that if she rings and has been drinking, we cut the call short. End it as soon as we can.
We both agree that it's the best way to deal with them.
If the phone call continues, it usually ends in a row. Nine times out of ten, she never remembers the next day anyway if we put the phone down, or pretended to be busy.

Just remember though it's not you at fault.
If your mum really valued your phone calls then she would make the effort to be sober.
It works both ways.
As much as she can put the guilt trip on you for avoiding her calls, you can put the same on her for not making the effort to delay her drinking until she has spoken with you on the phone. That's just manners and courtesy to be not steaming while being on the phone to her daughter.

My sister is a lot harsher than me too. The minute she suspects she is not sober, she hangs up.
No explanation or anything.
She just ends the call.
I think she does right though. Her tine is precious. She has 2 little babies. When they go to bed, she gets about 1 hour to herself before she has to sleep as they get up so early.
The last thing she needs is to spend that hour listening to drunk ramblings.

Don 't let anyone make you feel guilty.
You have a right to not converse with a drunk if you find it unpleasant.
It does not matter if it is your mum or not.
Drunk phone calls are tedious no matter who is doing the dialing.

Wishing you the best xx

pattyj

Those are all great posts! I feel like I learn something every time I look on SR.

I do seek approval from my mom because she expected so much from me and criticizes me in whatever I do. And my choices are very practical and exceptional, like going to school to become a nurse. She looks down at me getting into debt because of school. And she's a nurse herself. Ridiculous.

I also feel like I don't want to be around her even when she is sober. She is still sick, she just isn't drunk. Is that okay too? I have no confidence in what I think I should compared to what I should do. She is still sick even if she isn't drunk at that moment, just like I was.

It's also interesting to hear that is it with men and their fathers as well and not just with daughters and their moms. It's unfortunate but reassuring at the same time.

Sasha4

I was the same.

It dawned on me that in a few years I will be 50.
I don't need to run things past my parents anymore to see if they approve.
I actually don't even need to tell them about a decision if I don't want to.
It's my life and I run it how I see fit.

When you reach that frame of mind, it feels great!
It's like I can do what I want, when I want.

I remember the first few decisions I made that thought of 'but what will my parents think......' Cropped up.
The realisation it was my decision and not their's was liberating!
I actually enjoyed doing what I wanted with or without their approval.
Now, and it has taken time and practice, I do things and often don't inform them until later.
You wouldn't believe I'm 41 years old!

pattyj

Thank you Sasha! I am 32 years old and don't need to run every decision I make past my parents either. I don't need to even tell them anything. I also always think of what they will say and think about a decision. It's so crazy!! Friends keep telling me that I'm an adult and can do as I please. I'm grateful that someone else has the same issue as myself. Now that I have that realization I need to put it into action and that's the hardest part.

Dee74

Hi Patty

I got out of my parents lives for a while - it was pretty toxic for me.

I went back and forth too but I figured if I'm removing toxic people from my life it makes sense to include all the toxic people.

There was only phone contact for a few years - now there's some face to face interaction...they seem to respect me more, but I get a hard time sometimes.

The good thing is I've changed - I know who I am...and what others might say (particularly when I know it's not true) doesn't bother me any more.

D

Sasha4

Sometimes I do think this is a bit my character flaw too.

My younger sister is the opposite to me. She does it and deals with them later. Most time there is no need to 'deal' with anything as she just goes about life how she wants to anyway.

The way I tried to change my thinking was to do something I wanted to do for me, and not tell them.
It was nothing outrageous - just buying something and I went for the bit more expensive option. I know if I had mentioned my intentions they probably would have said to go for the cheaper option.
I've still not told them.
Now I don't feel I have to.
I expect they will just see it and go 'is that new?'
All I have to say is yes and no more.

Try it a few times.
The minute the 'but what will my mum think....?' thought pops into your head, think 'no I CAN make this decision on my own' and go ahead and do it.
The sense of freedom, personal responsibility and not having to explain/justify your options is an amazing feeling!!
Start small - the sort of decisions that won't cause your world to collapse if you make the wrong choice.
If you do make the wrong choice, that don't matter either as she won't know anyway if you have not told her in the first place what you did.

Go treat yourself to something. New hair colour? New nails? New outfit? Or go book something to do that you will enjoy.

Can't wait to hear what you went ahead and did honey! xx