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Feeling betrayed (aa)

Old 04-20-2015, 05:52 PM
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Feeling betrayed (aa)

Hi

Im a newly recovering alcoholic. Tomorrow will be day 14 sober for me. In detox the aa people came through and did a panel, they said not to worry about the god part of the 12 steps that i could use a doorknob if i wanted to i just had to.choose a higher power.

Ditto for a few friends who were in aa. I filled out a form in the detox and ditto fr him.

I went to my first aa meeting right out of detox and the fellow there was kind enough to loan me a big book. I took everyones advice and went to a meeting almost every day, even after i had spent 8 hours at my detoxes outpatient program, despite that i was getting burned out of.recovery stuff. They all told me to keep up the momentum.

The guy aa referred to me also started suggesting that i start going to lunchtime meetings too, but i was like no thats too much. I do 7-9 hours of outpatient stuff per week plus it takes 2 hours to attend an evening meeting including travel time.

I met some kind people who reached out to me at some of the meetungs (i found everyone to be nice people) and talked to.a few on the phone.

I found that all these people did was attend meetings. People sober for as many as 20 years still going to.daily meetings, people who all they really do is go to meetings and talk to their sponsor. By and large they all seemed pretty miserable especially given how long some of them were sober for it seemed like a crappy deal to give up alcohol and spend so much time on aa things on a daily basis.

But i was determined to give it an honest try.

I read the whole big book and i am very disheartned and feel betrayed by all of them. Aa reads and acts more like a religion trusting in blind faith in god to sort you out than a treatment program. For those who beleive in god maybe this is just fine but it sure isnt going to work for me.

I always looked at a life post daily drinking as one where i fill my life with more positive things to fill my time, not one where i put blind faith in something and hope for the best and going to meeting.after meeting after meeting talking about alcohol.

I told my friend that i wasnt going to go past step one for this.reason and i wouod only use aa for peer support because it seems to work for that because it is so accessible. She got very angry and tried.to convince me and hit a brick wall. We had an argument and now she wont even talk to me because i refused to buy into what is basically a religion.

I know there are other alternatives out there and i will find them. I have an appointment with an addictions counsellor in a couple of days and i am still enrolled in my outpatient program.

Its just that i am so angry and feel so betrayed. I put faith in AA that it was actually a treatment program and that the god stuff was just a small minor part of it, people can say what they like but god is mentioned in nearly every paragraph in the big book. The steps and the program are useless if you arent willing to abide by step three and put your faith in a higher power (god). Ghe only step that mentions alcohol or drinking is step 1.

Making matters worse i gave serious thought to maybe just giving in and trying the god crap so i went looking for efficacy data and learned that aa has a lower success rate than no treatment at all which made me feel even more angry and betrayed. Why is this program touted as the gold standard when its success rate is negative!!!

Right now i am so angry and dissilusioned i cant even bring myself to go to a meeting for peer support, i dont want to talk to any.of the people in aa about my anger because i dont want to lose any more sober friends - and i am so upset that i have a major case of the fk its right now i want to just go buy some booze drink it and not drink tomorrow just to show aa that i wont go on a bender if i have a couple drinks (i was never a bender drinker).

I will.caveat this post and say yes i know aa works for some people and some people enjoy it. The people there are quite nice and i dont think they want.to do anything.other than help.people. I may be railing against aa in this post but im not saying it shouldnt exist but i am just angry that i went for a peer support program and i basically got a faith based healing program, if it was advertised as such i would not have even wasted the 20 hours ive spent on it over past week.

Out of respect i am loathe to talk to anyone in aa or who feels it worked for them about my frustration and the research i found showing its low success rate because if its working for them they should continue doing it.

I am just really upset right now because i feel baited and switched by many people and people who havent had a problem with alcohol would never understand and the people i reached out to for support are all aa or.ex aa people.

Im on day 13 and want to make it to day 14 and beyond. While i beleive drinking in moderation is possible in my future i am way to early in recovery to.even consider such a thing or even if i should choose that in the future.

So please dont come back with a pro AA bash, i am a humanist druid and the higher power / god thing is just not compatible for me at all. If AA is working for you i wish you all the best.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:04 PM
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I go to AA for the people more so than the "program". Just my experience.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:04 PM
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There are a lot of other options. Rational Recovery, etc. There is a secular section here on SR. I have gained a lot of knowledge and renewed belief in myself there. I do use parts and pieces of AA and I do believe in a Higher Power but I enjoy all of the avenues to keep me strong. I like to be able to talk to my Addict/Alcoholic voice and tell it to STFU.

I am in the camp that whatever keeps you clean/sober.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:10 PM
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There are many options to recovery and I'm glad to hear you're going to pursue counselling. Please check out this link which is filled with suggestions and options for recovery:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...at-we-did.html

And, please, everyone, keep in mind our mandate - The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:10 PM
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Thank you for your quick responses

Im just so frustrated i feel let down. I really was going to give it my all and was really trying it with an open mind

Im just having a hard time tonight

My post detox plan was to use aa in the evenings and my outpatient program on thrle weekends to distract me and keep me on track until i could fill my life with other positive nondrinking activities to fill my time. After 1o+ years of daily drinking its going to tqlake a bit to get into a new groove

I will probably go to aa and tune out what i dont like again just right now im so frustrated and angry it wouldnt be a good idea. I wouldnt want to bring up my feeelings about aa at a meeting that would be disrespectful and i dont think id be able to not talk about it right now. Plus it would probably lead to an argument given how passionate many aa people are about the program and how frustrated and betrayed i feel right now it wouldnt be a good idea.

:-(
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:12 PM
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Hi Paintballguy - welcome

There's a forum here for working the 12 steps in a secular framework.
Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

There's also many approaches that are entirely secular in nature
The link Anna provided includes some of the main meeting based recovery players, including AA but many more besides like SMART Recovery or LifeRing

If you want to read about a non meeting based approach like Rational Recovery check out this forum:

Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

If you have a problem with AA there's no reason in the world for you to get stuck on that and no reason not to try other approaches.

D
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:26 PM
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I go to AA 4 times a week and am doing the steps with a woman who openly does not believe in 'God' in the religious sense at all
I will never believe in that concept of God either, I flat out cannot believe in a 'creator' but I personally can happily go along with the idea of karma or nature etc as a 'higher power'
Some people use the groups as their higher power -God = group of drunks
People around here are pretty relaxed with the whole God thing, it's easy to stick with the steps and listen to others experience without being at all religious I think
Maybe you're not going to the best meetings? Or maybe it's different in your area. Or maybe you just need to try something else, no shame in AA just not being the right fit for you

Oh and the people in my meetings are definitely not as fanatical re attendance as you mentioned, most come 2-3 times a week Id say and they're mostly a happy bunch

So yeah, maybe you've just had a rotten experience, sorry bout that, I know it can seem horrible when you thought you found the answer then it disappoints. If you like the idea of AA still just try some different meetings but if it's not for you - plenty of other options!
best to you
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:33 PM
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Yes there is a smart meeting held at my daytox program thursday nights and i have an appointment with an addictions counsellor.wednesday morning i will probably check the smart meeting out i thought of that i hear its very popular.

Problem is the temporary sponsor assigned to me by the aa office found out i was skipping thursdays in my area because its big book study when i met him and he offered to drive me to his home group across town because he thought it was a bad idea to miss meetings.

He is a really nice guy, has been checking up on me almost every day we met up friday afternoon. In a way i dont want to get into it with him he is very devoted to the program and i know he will try to convince me to give it more of.a.chance... At least not right now....

My friend who convinced me to go to aa in the first place tried to convince me and the conversation went so sideways she wont even speak to me anymore. Maybe shell come around maybe not but i dont want to get into it with him if im feeling so.angry like this and i know it will get bad if he is a good aa person trying hard to help out a fellow alcoholic and tries hard to convince me.

Its a conundrum. Im not mad at the aa people they are all so nice i am just mad at the foundations of the program itself being so faith based. I dont want to insult, anger, or discourage anyone but im armed with a lot of data as i spent the last 2 days looking for.hard data on aa efficacy and i really dont like what i found. I tried looking.for hard data or real studies in aa favor to ensure i found the other sides story but i could find nothing.

To.each their own but i know aa people really want to help and they are very passionate about the program. I just really wish i knew all this before i got involved at all.

:-(

I havent broken and gone to get booze though thats a good thing hopefully this anger subsides and i make it.to day 14 unscathed.

Thanks for listening and my apologies to anyone reading who loves the aa program. I have found aa people to be so nice i hope not to offend anyone.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:40 PM
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Sorry about the friend from AA who was insisting you had to do AA the way she thought it needed to be done. If you look carefully at the program you will discover that those who came up with the program said that it "was meant to be suggestive only" which means, she is wrong .

Second, I'm not sure where you got the statistics on an AA success rate but I would look at that source rather skeptically. It's nearly impossible to do research on AA for a whole host of reasons. If you are convinced that the source in accurate I would love to see it (please send me a PM so your thread is not derailed).

Finnaly I would suggest that it is possible that the case of the fk it's could be anger-in-search-of-a-target to give you an 'excuse' to drink. Be very careful.

All the best
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:41 PM
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I am not an AA person, but maybe now is not the time to be looking at data, but to be looking at yourself and focusing on what is working. This early in recovery it's a good idea to listen as much as you can. As they say, "take what you need and leave the rest". Good luck to you.
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:47 PM
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My advice to you would be to not give up on AA, especially during early sobriety. I agree with your observations, but it's real important for YOU to get past the things that bother you and just try to focus on why you go to the meetings. I attend meetings, but it took me a very long time to move past the things about AA that bothered me, and and just pay attention to the parts of AA that helped me to stay sober. I get a lot out of listening to what other people share at the meetings. It helps me to stay grounded with my sobriety. Yes, God is brought up from time to time, but it has nothing to do with the incredible wisdom I find at the meetings. That's what's important to me.
I also think there is life outside of AA, just as there is life outside of being drunk all the time. For me, a healthy life requires balance. I wouldn't stay sober for long if all I had to look forward to are the meetings. Meetings are important for me, but it's just as important to build a sober life. John
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Old 04-20-2015, 06:55 PM
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Also, I wouldn't spend to much time looking success rates of any recovery program. People come and go in AA as well as SR or any other recovery program. I could say to myself that, with so many people leaving and relatively few hanging around, the program must not be very effective. The only program that matters to me is my program, and I plan on making it very successful. John
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:05 PM
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Well to my friends credit she was trying to get me past the god part of aa but after reading the big book i was not having any of it. I was so disillusioned that despite my rage i dragged myself to the group meeting where the guy who loaned me the book is chair so i could give the book back and get the damn thing out of my house because just looking at it made me enraged. I was respectful thanked him for loaning it to me told him i read the whole thing (which i did) he asked me if i saw anything i could relate to and i told him i laughed at the jaywalking story as that had me in stitches. I sat through the meeting and was nice to everyone despite my hidden rage and after the meeting left. No scene i am respectful.

My friend was trying to call me to explain some crap about how its about living life on lifes terms but i wouldnt have any of it because she was the reason i ever tried it in the first place. Shes not religious either but was raised catholic so maybe when she hit bottom she was more prone.to giving it a whirl. I had a very high bottom i checked in at the very first sign of physical withdrawal maybe thats why im far less tolerant i dont know.

I feel bad for upsetting her. I did try sending her an email suggesting that she stop trying to.push the steps on me because i have no intention of ever going past step 1 at this point but she was already worked up because i was mad and told her i think step 2-11 are part of a fairy tale. Not the best choice in words but im very secular by principle and i just dont find the idea of faking it worth my time at all. Ill probably chill out when i calm down.

I cant bring myself to go to a meeting at all right now and unfortunately the one thing aa is unparalleled at is how many meetings there are every day and the other alternatives just arent nearly as accessible. If they were id be running to it right now because im angry and it makes me want to drink. I wish i could fathom going to even an aa meeting right now but looking at those steps will just make me more angry because i feel like ive wasted a lot of my time that could have been used on something else.,

Pissing off my friend doesnt make me feel any better either. She can be hard to deal with at the best of times (she calls herself a dry drunk) but on a topic like that it just got ugly fast.

I wish there was someone to talk to on the phone who wouldnt be annoyed with me going into an anti aa tirade to get it off my chest who knows aa, knows what its like to be 14 days sober for the first time in over a decade and who would empathize with my perspective on faith based treatment.

Lol is there a hotline for that?

:-P. Lol i wish
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:09 PM
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I attend AA meetings 3-4 times a week ONLY for the social aspect. I enjoy being around most of the people there and I feel good when others know who I am.

That being said, I fully agree with you in that I do not like the Christian bias of the 12 steps and have no intention of using them for my spriritual growth. I have read many of the same studies you referenced. I have not stated this openly at the meetings that I attend, but am certain it will come up at some point. If I am met with the same attitude you experienced, I will politely remind them that I am a member because I have a desire to stop drinking, that the steps are merely suggestions, and that AA does not align itself with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution, at least according to AA literature.

I wouldn't rule out AA as I think you may throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some good people in the rooms and a few that probably share your same beliefs. Whatever you do, don't let any resentments take root over a few overzealous members!
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:10 PM
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I tried doing it my way more times than I can count and failed miserably. If there is one piece of advice I may suggest is to find people with long term sobriety that are content and then do what they do.

Nobody said it would be easy or that you would like it because sobriety takes change and none of us like to make the changes in our life and thinking necessary
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:11 PM
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Sounds like a lot of resentment there paintballguy?

No matter how justified it feels, I hope you can get over it - resentments can fester and feed into obsessions...that can be very dangerous for guys like you or me.

D
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:27 PM
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Ill get over it i just feel like ive been tricked and wasted my time thats why im so angry. It is like people say one thing out loud and they say work the program but until you read the book you dont really know what the program is. "half measures do nothing" it says and the whole program is based on giving yourself to god

After i calm down i will probably be able to hit an aa meeting and just switch on the filter. This is the first time ive been upset since going sober almost 2 weeks ago that may be part of the reason for all this anger. Probably didnt help to have my friend riding my ass about not missing a meeting and my temporary sponsor pushing me to do the 90 in 90 and to find out how faith based it was after i was run off my feet dragging myself to meetings even when i did 8 hours of recovery already that day in my outpatient program. They both dismissed my daytox program as secondary and said the aa was what i should focus on.

Thank you all for talking to me. I may seem irrationally angry but this really does help.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by paintballguy View Post
Ill get over it i just feel like ive been tricked and wasted my time thats why im so angry. It is like people say one thing out loud and they say work the program but until you read the book you dont really know what the program is. "half measures do nothing" it says and the whole program is based on giving yourself to god

After i calm down i will probably be able to hit an aa meeting and just switch on the filter. This is the first time ive been upset since going sober almost 2 weeks ago that may be part of the reason for all this anger. Probably didnt help to have my friend riding my ass about not missing a meeting and my temporary sponsor pushing me to do the 90 in 90 and to find out how faith based it was after i was run off my feet dragging myself to meetings even when i did 8 hours of recovery already that day in my outpatient program. They both dismissed my daytox program as secondary and said the aa was what i should focus on.

Thank you all for talking to me. I may seem irrationally angry but this really does help.
AA is based on a higher power of your own understanding. You may wish to reread the chapter to the Agnostic. The term God has nothing to do with any religion
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:37 PM
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i feel like ive wasted a lot of my time that could have been used on something else.,
okay. on what else? find that and do that "else". i'm not being facetious. clearly, AA is of no use to you nor you to it/them.
find something that is. being here is one thing. going to SMART another. maybe you have LifeRing available? (LifeRing - LifeRing) you can go to chat there 24/7, and i think there is 24/7 chat here, too.
don't waste any more time being angry, especially if you find anger makes you want to drink.
(hm...why be so angry at something you believe to be a fairy tale? it's quite up front about being a "spiritual solution", nothing hidden about that).
you have lots of options and i hope you'll find the one that works for you.
oh! and check out the AVRT threads in the "Secular Connections" forum farther down.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:55 PM
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Hi there. I couldn't get beyond the God thing when I first attended AA. I've learned there are meetings where it's discussed more than at others. I didn't stay sober very long and continued drinking for eight more years. I haven't worked steps but I've made good friends with two women who are great support. I use a mix of SR and AA meetings. So far I've gotten 16 months.

I see a couple of things to consider that have nothing to do with AA though. You've identified as an alcoholic but are saying that you might drink in moderation in the future. I thought that after my first stint in outpatient treatment. I started out moderately drinking but by the end I was drinking daily, at lunch on work days, all day both Saturday and Sunday. I never ate. Withdrawal woke me up at night so I was drinking in the early morning just to sleep. Moderation didn't work and I ended back in treatment but inpatient.

Anger is a huge drinking trigger. My brain used to find things to be angry about to justify drinking. It was easy to do. I'll show you! I'll drink! Plus, you sound like a nice person but you're taking too much responsibility for offending people. Guilt is just a big a trigger as anger.

If another way works, that's great. And in the beginning you may think you're getting burned out but you're changing your brain. Establishing new habits and ways of coping/handling things that life throws at you. I did the 90 in 90 my second time around. Even if you don't do that, try the other methods but on a highly scheduled, regular basis.

Congrats on 13 days. Stick with it.
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