Recent NPR article opinions
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Recent NPR article opinions
What are your opinions on this article? I don't think moderation is possible, but that just my input.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015...ntent=20150323
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015...ntent=20150323
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For me I'm in that category mentioned in the article as "need treatment to stop drinking completely"
Not getting drunk and having a couple wouldn't be enough for me, I drank to get drunk!!
Having 1 drink wouldn't appeal to me at all, that was my problem, attempts at moderation would always fall short of what I wanted from alcohol!!
Not getting drunk and having a couple wouldn't be enough for me, I drank to get drunk!!
Having 1 drink wouldn't appeal to me at all, that was my problem, attempts at moderation would always fall short of what I wanted from alcohol!!
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
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My AV loves these kinds of articles. Notice that those who lose jobs or get DUI's are included among those who need treatment to quit altogether...
Doesn't say anything about the ones who should have gotten about a dozen DUI's by now but, by luck of the draw, managed to avoid getting any at all. That's me.
Sometimes, I have to laugh at the very existence of studies such as the one(s) cited in this article. Why is alcohol so all-important that this much focus and concentration has to go into how people can safely continue drinking poison?! I dunno...just seems silly to me.
Doesn't say anything about the ones who should have gotten about a dozen DUI's by now but, by luck of the draw, managed to avoid getting any at all. That's me.
Sometimes, I have to laugh at the very existence of studies such as the one(s) cited in this article. Why is alcohol so all-important that this much focus and concentration has to go into how people can safely continue drinking poison?! I dunno...just seems silly to me.
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I did a lot of my own "research" in moderation. I even tried the Moderation Management plan mentioned in the article. Unfortunately, none of them worked.
I have no doubt that there are some people who are simply heavy drinkers that can cut back, but i'm not one of them.
I have no doubt that there are some people who are simply heavy drinkers that can cut back, but i'm not one of them.
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Originally Posted by GetMeOut 
Notice that those who lose jobs or get DUI's are included among those who need treatment to quit altogether... Doesn't say anything about the ones who should have gotten about a dozen DUI's by now but, by luck of the draw, managed to avoid getting any at all. That's me.
Left the bottle behind 4/16/2015
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Originally Posted by Jillian2563
So very true. In my day to day life, no one would've ever guessed I had a problem because I didn't lose my job, get a DUI or jail time. But the reality is, those were very good possibilities! I don't know how I managed not to either. But glad that I don't have to worry about THAT anymore lol.
It's a morbid thought, but I certainly am grateful that if, God forbid, anything happens to me on the road now involving alcohol, it will be the other driver instead of me.
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From my first drink I drank to get wasted. Moderation will never work for people like me. The association is just too ingrained. I think early trying to moderate to see if you can do it is ok, but there is a point when you get your answer. I got mine.
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I think this article is pretty clear about there being a continuum of alcohol abuse. It also notes that moderation can lead to a decision to commit to abstinence (primarily because of the oft-mentioned obsession with drinking that accompanies moderation for many).
For myself, I fall on the low end of the spectrum of alcohol abuse - I've had no concrete negative consequences in my life, etc. I have chosen abstinence because I find it easier than moderation, but it is a pretty extreme choice to have made with my personal history. I certainly wouldn't expect that many in my situation would choose abstinence. So, when we only offer the two ends of the spectrum (alcohol abuse or abstinence) I feel like we cut dialogue with zillions of drinkers who might be headed for difficulty, and who would grow from some involvement with the recovery movement.
For this reason, I'm pleased that there is a discussion of moderation out there. It creates an option for folks who aren't alcoholic to address problem alcohol intake - which can develop simply as habit (especially if one is in relationship with an alcoholic or has a work social group which culturally is alcohol dependent) or situational (as when folks over-indulge through the complex emotions of a painful loss). I think we all agree that not everyone who drinks heavily is an alcoholic, and providing support alternatives might be just what many need to approach and respond to short term periods of heavy drinking.
Here is a parallel - there are many many people out there who are over-weight. Many of these folks will undertake exercise or diet regimes on their own, but most of us would agree that they will likely be more successful if they work with a trainer, or have a friend who agrees to work out with them, etc. It is also shown that people who keep track of (log) their caloric intake and exercise time are more consistent and successful at transforming their bodies. This is a direct parallel of what a moderation management program is offering someone concerned about their alcohol use.
On a more extreme end of the spectrum are folks with eating disorders. Those folks will likely need more powerful and encompassing support - inpatient treatment, a 12 step program, therapy. They would not be well served with a chart on the fridge and an appointment with a trainer at the gym.
I think that for the true alcoholic or addict, total abstinence is the only thing that really works. I think there are many people out there that are not alcoholics, but for whom abstinence is offered as the only alternative, and for them this limits the possibilities and generally leaves them plopped down right in the middle of their substance abuse struggles with nowhere to go.
For myself, I fall on the low end of the spectrum of alcohol abuse - I've had no concrete negative consequences in my life, etc. I have chosen abstinence because I find it easier than moderation, but it is a pretty extreme choice to have made with my personal history. I certainly wouldn't expect that many in my situation would choose abstinence. So, when we only offer the two ends of the spectrum (alcohol abuse or abstinence) I feel like we cut dialogue with zillions of drinkers who might be headed for difficulty, and who would grow from some involvement with the recovery movement.
For this reason, I'm pleased that there is a discussion of moderation out there. It creates an option for folks who aren't alcoholic to address problem alcohol intake - which can develop simply as habit (especially if one is in relationship with an alcoholic or has a work social group which culturally is alcohol dependent) or situational (as when folks over-indulge through the complex emotions of a painful loss). I think we all agree that not everyone who drinks heavily is an alcoholic, and providing support alternatives might be just what many need to approach and respond to short term periods of heavy drinking.
Here is a parallel - there are many many people out there who are over-weight. Many of these folks will undertake exercise or diet regimes on their own, but most of us would agree that they will likely be more successful if they work with a trainer, or have a friend who agrees to work out with them, etc. It is also shown that people who keep track of (log) their caloric intake and exercise time are more consistent and successful at transforming their bodies. This is a direct parallel of what a moderation management program is offering someone concerned about their alcohol use.
On a more extreme end of the spectrum are folks with eating disorders. Those folks will likely need more powerful and encompassing support - inpatient treatment, a 12 step program, therapy. They would not be well served with a chart on the fridge and an appointment with a trainer at the gym.
I think that for the true alcoholic or addict, total abstinence is the only thing that really works. I think there are many people out there that are not alcoholics, but for whom abstinence is offered as the only alternative, and for them this limits the possibilities and generally leaves them plopped down right in the middle of their substance abuse struggles with nowhere to go.
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The last sentence in the article reads "And if moderation doesn't work? It may be a step on the path to abstinence."
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
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This article infuriated me. I never comment on articles like this one. But in this case I made the effort to establish an account, log in, and give them "what for". I think this article sends a very dangerous message to people like me whose brain doesn't work like moderate drinkers. What this article assumes is that people like me can recognize our inability to moderate. Well, just when I had myself convinced that I can't moderate, this article suggests, albeit unwittingly I suppose, that maybe I canlearn to moderate.
Like GetMeOut, my AV loved this article. But instead of laughing it off, I found myself listening to my AV, even if only for a few minutes. And I really, really hate that.
Like GetMeOut, my AV loved this article. But instead of laughing it off, I found myself listening to my AV, even if only for a few minutes. And I really, really hate that.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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From Moderation Management's website - linked thru the npr article; There are 8 bullet points to what a moderate drinker is. I completely fail all of them. I did have a friend once who was normal though......I had to stop hanging out with them.
A Moderate Drinker:
•considers an occasional drink to be a small, though enjoyable, part of life.
•has hobbies, interests, and other ways to relax and enjoy life that do not involve alcohol.
•usually has friends who are moderate drinkers or nondrinkers.
•generally has something to eat before, during, or soon after drinking.
•usually does not drink for longer than an hour or two on any particular occasion.
•usually does not drink faster than one drink per half-hour.
•usually does not exceed the .055% BAC moderate drinking limit. (see Note 1 below)
•feels comfortable with his or her use of alcohol (never drinks secretly and does not spend a lot of time thinking about drinking or planning to drink).
A Moderate Drinker:
•considers an occasional drink to be a small, though enjoyable, part of life.
•has hobbies, interests, and other ways to relax and enjoy life that do not involve alcohol.
•usually has friends who are moderate drinkers or nondrinkers.
•generally has something to eat before, during, or soon after drinking.
•usually does not drink for longer than an hour or two on any particular occasion.
•usually does not drink faster than one drink per half-hour.
•usually does not exceed the .055% BAC moderate drinking limit. (see Note 1 below)
•feels comfortable with his or her use of alcohol (never drinks secretly and does not spend a lot of time thinking about drinking or planning to drink).
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Originally Posted by awuh1
The last sentence in the article reads "And if moderation doesn't work? It may be a step on the path to abstinence."
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
http://www.thefix.com/content/rememb...udrey-kishline
Very sad.
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I might say I want to drink moderately, but the truth is, I want to drink with impunity, and suffer none of the consequences of my drinking.
That's what separates me from the "moderate" drinker.
That's what separates me from the "moderate" drinker.
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Originally Posted by firstymer
This article infuriated me. I never comment on articles like this one. But in this case I made the effort to establish an account, log in, and give them "what for". I think this article sends a very dangerous message to people like me whose brain doesn't work like moderate drinkers. What this article assumes is that people like me can recognize our inability to moderate. Well, just when I had myself convinced that I can't moderate, this article suggests, albeit unwittingly I suppose, that maybe I canlearn to moderate.
Like GetMeOut, my AV loved this article. But instead of laughing it off, I found myself listening to my AV, even if only for a few minutes. And I really, really hate that.
Like GetMeOut, my AV loved this article. But instead of laughing it off, I found myself listening to my AV, even if only for a few minutes. And I really, really hate that.
It's kinda like when I would see yet another one of the news stories about how red wine is actually good for you. I don't really like wine, but the message I got - in my clouded state of mind - was: alcohol is not so bad for you after all. Never mind the caveat that heavy drinking reverses any good benefits. Once I got started, no matter how good my intentions, I'd always be sloshed in no time, and repeating it every day.
We can't live in a bubble, though. We're a minority. I do understand and sympathize with your anger over it.
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To me it's now rather obvious. There are lots of "moderate drinkers" but few, or more likely none of them, are alcoholics. All, or perhaps nearly all, "alcoholics" cannot drink moderately. At least I couldn't. That's all I need to know. And it took me forty years to convince myself of that. It's called "doing research". And "doing research" can kill lots of folks. injure others, destroy families. It's the only form of slavery where the slaves have to be convinced that its better to be free.
W.
W.
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My bf is an alcoholic. 15yrs ago, she was drinking over a case/day. Today she is down to less than a 6pc/day.
However, I'm quite certain that if her world fell apart tomorrow ( as it did 15yrs ago ) she would be tee totalling it again.
However, I'm quite certain that if her world fell apart tomorrow ( as it did 15yrs ago ) she would be tee totalling it again.
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The Atlantic is not a magazine solely for alcoholics, so I'm not surprised or upset by the article.
..who was in AA when the accident happened, so I'm not sure of your point here awuh?
D
Originally Posted by awuh1
The last sentence in the article reads "And if moderation doesn't work? It may be a step on the path to abstinence."
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
Or, it could be like the like the founder of "support group" Moderation Management who caused a fatal car crash driving drunk and later committed suicide.
D
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