heartcore

I think the important thing here is that we are statistically skewed - this is an abstinence website, so folks on here have gotten to a point in their lives in which they are clear that they are alcoholic and/or are pretty sure they are alcoholic, and have attempted moderation, found it burdensome and unlikely, and are committing to abstinence.

There is, however, a vast spectrum of human relationship to alcohol - from folks who don't like feeling drunk, to people who drink socially, to folks that party hard but are not physically or psychologically addicted, to alcoholism.

There are plenty of people who have had difficulties with alcohol at certain times in their lives who are not alcoholics!

The "diagnosis" of alcoholism (whether self diagnosed or by others) is not related only to the severity of consequences, but also to the long term pattern of alcohol abuse. I have known many people in my life who overindulged during an environmental period of their life (like college culture), sometimes with serious consequence, but who were able to change their drinking patterns as they became adults. I've known two extremely hard drinkers who chose abstinence, but used zero support system (no programs or websites or counselling), just made the call that it wasn't working and quit successfully.

I don't think moderation works as a technique for alcoholics (those people who are physically or psychologically addicted to alcohol). I think it is a viable approach for people who are "problem drinkers."

Does info like this article make an alcoholic wish she were a problem drinker? Sure, just like seeing an ad for beer or planning a bar-b-que makes an alcoholic wish they were only a problem drinker. I wish I were tall and willowy too, but I'm short and sturdy. That's the way my cookie crumbles...

I still think we need to offer diverse approaches and perspectives on alcohol abuse within our culture. I know many folks who will NEVER choose abstinence, but could use some support with lowering their dependence on alcohol.

SoberCAH

Since you're a Moderator, I was expecting more from you on moderation.

Just kidding.

To me, it seems that most of the hit pieces I see are anti-AA.

Perhaps they are warranted, perhaps not, I don't know.

If some doctor, scientist, sociologist, psychologist or journo wants to say bad things about AA, it doesn't matter to me.

It has certainly worked for me since 1988, which is the most important thing to me.

I wish all people who endeavor to quit or cut back complete success, irrespective of their approaches.

I would add, however, that saying AA doesn't work because someone who doesn't want to be there (the court-ordered crowd, for example) quits and goes out and gets drunk, or someone who goes to a handful of meetings does the same thing, is as absurd as saying a drug doesn't work because someone takes one or 2 doses and then quits.

AA involves, among other things, working steps on a regular basis, not just going to a meeting from time to time.

red3215

Huh. I had believed for years that the woman who started Moderation Management was trying to moderate when she had that accident because that's what it sounded like, the wording of whatever I read.
I also didn't realize she killed two people for the first time (shudder) while in AA trying to stay sober. That could happen to any of us if we relapse. I can't even imagine the misery and guilt to follow.

dwtbd

I should really work o my syntax , or at least go back and edit more, as my wording is wonky , even to myself so, i apologize for that, at least.
The point I was trying to make was that for those that decide to and quit , that is the decision they first had to make. The decision that this time is for real , or never again and mean it. I believe it is possible to make a commitment to abstinence and choose to never pick up another drink. That does not mean that I think once the commitment is made the wanting instantly disappears. But I do believe with suficient time from the last drink and commitment intact, the wanting will/can take care of itself. Deciding at some point to pick up and start drinking again is the lose of the commitment, not a foregone conclusion.

Fly N Buy

Heartcore - I agree with your post, but wonder if (bold) is always the case?

For me, I feel as if having lost the obsession to drink I don't miss it today wherever I fall on the continuum of alcohol use. I never have wished I was only a problem drinker.

When I first quit I was told by others I never have to drink again if I don't want to. I heard = I never get to drink again. Today I hear I never care to drink again..........I am not sitting around contemplating how I feel bad cause I don't care to drink. I am thankful that alcohol has been neutralized in my life. I do not like tomatoes - I feel the same way about booze today, don't like it.

Dee74

Yeah, I made the point somewhere that The Atlantic is not a magazine for alcoholics.

The article may be beneficial for some of its readers - the various harm reduction/moderation approaches may be useful for some too. Who knows?

I don't know because I know for a fact now I'm not that type of drinker - never have been, know nothing about it.

God knows though...I explored all those options before I finally and ultimately accepted what I was.

D

silentrun

I have a suspicion that drinking 3 drinks a night for too many days in a row and then adding one more and one more to build up my tolerance was a little like alcoholic training camp. Maybe then I could have stopped it but that was way before I even realized anything was changing. By the time I had the first blackout it was probably already too late.

heartcore

Flynbuy -

I haven't had the experience yet of having the desire entirely removed, so I guess I was generalizing that...

My desire to drink is mostly removed, in the sense that I'm not dealing with cravings or fighting a desire to return to drinking. I still do have that "oh, that's too bad" though, regarding having to have dealt with this whole journey at all. I would like to have skipped it.

I recognize that I should be grateful for the growth and wisdom of all experiences, but I hate having something forbidden to me, especially when it is me that is forbidding it!!

I don't know if that will go away for me. I've been sober for substantial periods of my life (10 years once), and still wished that I were not restricted in that way. It is choice, and I prefer myself and my life sober, but I wish I could have my sober life and still drink...

I don't spend much time agonizing about this, and am firmly entrenched in my sobriety. Like I said, it is an occasional feeling of envy, exactly the same as when I meet a tall and willowy woman and feel envious that I didn't have that gift of genetics. I've done the best I can with what I have (whether that is alcoholism or being short or wearing glasses or...), but that doesn't stop one from wishing!

I guess that there might someday come a day in which I am absolutely content with every deficit that I carry, but I'm still in the place where I'm just proud of how I've dealt with my challenges, and that's enough for me!

Now I'm envious that you don't have these feelings!

I was only addressing folks who seemed to think the article was dangerous for alcoholics, because it might confuse us and make us think we're capable of moderation. I was saying that - like it or not - I've accepted that I am what I am, and a single article isn't going to make me think I can change what I am...

I hope that someday I can check in and say fully that I'm grateful to be an alcoholic. I'm not. I'm grateful for the experience of recovery, for the recovery community, and for my sober life, but I'd be just as happy if I could have by-passed this whole life-lesson and done something else with my energy...

SoberCAH

The only time I read an Atlantic Magazine article is when a blog links to it.

A lot of magazines to me reflect a culture of excess, which certainly seems to pervade the broadcast media.

A lot of modern media, books, etc. seem to exalt humansim, wit and sarcasm and turn a dim view toward spiritual matters.

Atlantic may or may not fall into this category.