Littlebear

Hi all - I have just asked this question of my february classmates and await responses...but probably i should have asked it here instead. It's this...

Why do you all talk of being sober 1 day only after a slip up of even 1 alcoholic drink...if eg, you have been sober for months or years or weeks? It seems illogical to me if someone has been sober say for 6 years and they have 1 drink or 1 evening drinking that they then have to think of themselves as only being sober for 1 day again...help me understand please?

Johnston

It's resetting the clock. I had 19 years then picked up. Now I have three years again, not 22. Aggregate sobriety is indeed 22, but I might as well include my ~13 years of childhood for an aggregate of 35 years sober time using that logic.

What is your real question?

tomsteve

One of the definitions of sober is " without alcohol."

Thepatman

Like tomsteve said, no Alcohol whatsoever is was counts as continuous.

Else it's called trying to moderate, like trying to fly without wings.

Dee74

Hi Littlebear

I can only speak for myself. For me I need to be scrupulously honest in my recovery or I will rationalise all kinds of things. I could say for example that I've been sober 47.89% of the time over the last 15 years...or 91% over the last 10 years...

but that would not be a true picture of the trajectory of my addiction or my recovery.

Breaks in sobriety to me indicated that my alcoholism was still active.
My counting of days starts from when I have my active alcoholism under control

D

Littlebear

Yes - the phrase 'breaks in my sobriety indicated to me that my alcoholism was still active' makes real sense. Thankyou D.

Johnston...I didn't have 'a real question' - other than the one I asked. But...I nearly didn't post the question because I guessed some of you might think I was asking because I had either broken my own (19 day) sobriety...I haven't. Or that I might be wondering if I could/ should drink and not want to 'count' it. None of this applies. I simply wondered about the question I asked.

LBrain

welcome to the forum little bear

Mel12

Dear Littlebear,

I did not understand either, until my horrid binge of last month made the explanation painfully obvious. It just took ONE to send me into a kind of temporary insanity where I kept going for more, more, more, more. Next thing I knew, I was starring in a zombie movie with a cast of one.

Now I find it helpful to monumentalize the significance of one. I really do not want to repeat the experience of last month!

Mel

waywardson8260

For me, that one little drink always led for so much more.

That one drink always led to one more drink, then one bottle of wine, then a weekend bender, and on and on.

That one little drink starts that whole vicious cycle again.

sprout50

I can't add anymore than what the others have said but welcome to the boards!

Soberwolf

Welcome Littlebear its nice to meet you

PurpleKnight

For me "non drinkers" don't have 1 evening drink, there is something not working in someone's recovery if the solution required is complete abstinence and someone then makes a decision to have a drink.

For me being really honest about this was the key to remaining Sober!!

heartcore

I participate in this method of counting because this is a "norm of our culture" as recovering folks - ie. it is the way people count their recovery time. For me, it doesn't feel wholly accurate, because all the years (together) that I've spent inside recovery actually have impacted who I am. Those years and that personal growth and understanding did not go away at times that I chose to drink; much of what I learned is cumulative inside me. The time I've spent in recovery has made me a better person whether I am in recovery or are drinking!

Conversely, the growth and self-knowledge stuff I've done at times in my life in which I am not fully abstinent, such as periods in which I was heavily involved in yoga or meditation communities (but occasionally had a glass of wine with a meal) DID count as growth and did contribute positively to the self I am now.

I am not one who had the experience of every aspect of my life being horrible while I was drinking alcohol. There are some aspects that I feel improve with abstinence, but even during drinking periods, the good within me remains active!

Now, mind you, because I did spend so much time in the recovery community or in healthy alternative communities, my periods of drinking have been limited and condensed in the spread of my whole adult life. I've been very protected by what I DID learn in recovery.

So, following the norms of our shared culture, I count myself as being in my seventh month of recovery right now. In my mind, I believe that I have been on this growth journey of recovery for 28 years. I do not say this in AA meetings, because the ethic of "starting the count over" is very strong for folks there.

I do notice, both from my experience and from observing others, that the requirement that we do start the count over contributes mightily to a feeling of humility (shame even, within the AA context, where longevity of continuous sobriety is often held up as a prideful banner). I can look at it as helping me to keep "beginner's mind."

The big emphasis on fear of the single drink (and one that is confirmed by real life examples over and over) is that one drink leads us to another and another, and alcoholism is defined by the difficulty with stopping at a single drink ("one is too many and a thousand is never enough.")

I both love and hate the counting of contiguous sobriety. On the one hand, no matter how crappy my day is, I can tell myself, "well, you're in the seventh month of sobriety, and no matter what happens, that in itself is an accomplishment." On the other hand, for me, counting contributes to the intensity with which I pursue my pirate behaviors AFTER I take that first drink, because I know that I will have to return to the count from "one" and want to really "enjoy the relapse" to make it worth the horror of announcing to the group that I am starting my count over. If there was no counting, and we were all just growing together, I don't think we would lose so many folks. I think people drop out of trying to deal with their alcohol problems altogether because they get discouraged inside the rigidity of the "counting."

saoutchik

That was really interesting and informative Heartcore.

It would be sad to think that we lose people because of a perceived shame of going back to day 1 - but I'm pretty sure your right

By the same token I also think its a good idea to only state "sober for..." (however long it is) because alcohol dependant people cannot moderate.

There is no "perfect" thing to say is there.

I reckon that it is important to people in the first few months to give the quitter a sense of accomplishment

Hope I havn't strayed off topic

between 60 and 70 days sober

PaulinaPolitely

Welcome LittleBear! Like heartcore, I too question the rigid keeping of sober dates. But once you have time put in, it helps to not want to break it and start over. My sober time is right where heartcores is, and I want to protect it now. Once a skeptic, now I am on board, for me, for keeping myself honest...

MelindaFlowers

For me I have made a rule that I do not drink alcohol. To drink one day would be devastating to my world. Physical torture? Not really. More like mental anguish that I was still letting alcohol into my life.

Mark twain said this about smoking but I'll change the word to drinking.

You only quit drinking once.

If I were to drink one day I would then know that I have not quit drinking and it would be mental terror that the door had opened. Sound dramatic? It sure is. My life was filled with drama when I drank. This is the fight of my life.

However if somebody does relapse I don't think they should let it ruin their life. They need to just get up dust themselves off and keep going. That said, I am done relapsing. I don't know if I have another recovery in me.

retiredusaf

Reminds me of a joke someone told at an AA meeting. Someone asked an AA member ho many days of sobriety he had, he said he had 90 days but drank last night so he only has 89 now.

AA counts "continuous" days of sobriety. No one counts their early childhood before their first drink in their sobriety days either...............

Lance40

One way to look at it is more of a marker of how effective your sobriety plan is. When someone sober drinks then their plan isn't strong enough or the person has abandoned it. In that sense you start over either with a recommitment to the plan or changes to the plan. In that sense you change directions or start on a new journey and it makes sense to start the counter at Day 1.

When I drive long distance trips that take more than a day I often reset the trip odometer multiple times, for example each morning to see how far I drive that day. It doesn't change all the kilometres I've put behind me, but my starting point each day is a new reference point on the way to my destination.


In my own experience I have to be careful not to attach self image to the day count. Having a higher count of sober says doesn't make a person "better", it just means they are working a plan that is effective for them.

Littlebear

Thank you all for taking time to let me have your views about this.

Heartcore - your response particularly spoke to me on many levels...I think because I too spend much of my time in and out of mindfulness and meditation and the teaching of it over the years. I've been able to do this - I think reasonably well whilst also drinking. However although new to sobriety (and it's very much the right thing for me to remain sober) my instinct hasnt ssat right with the seeming rigidity of the counting. Only because in so many other difficult walks of life and sets of emotions...i know its profoundly more helpful to just gently see where we havent been able to carry something forward, treat that with as much kindness as we can...and sure this is often difficult to do, but then just to start again...over and over as needs be - without the debasement of having apparently 'failed'. So thank you for sort of mirroring back some of what I was already feeling about the countinon only 20 days into sobriety. I don't feel inclined to start drinking so this isnt about wanting an easy option on the counting thing...just that you have given me a bit of validation on how I can learn to personally hold any relapses that may come up. And my intention is they won't.

For any one else reading this who holds a different view...I do also get the helpfulness of holding what seems to the more common cultural view within the sobriety community that counting helps us really move forward. Helping us to have a good chance of holding abstinence. helping us focus on the difficult task of not drinking, and measure where we are. So I am not turning my back on that. I am only really trying to learn from you all, gather lots of information and helpful tips about how I can progress, but also needing to make sense of it within what else I know has been helpful to me in my life - especially during difficult times. So, please bear with me? (or even...littlebear with me...??)

Dee74

It should never be about debasement or failure, or conversely about succeeding where others have not.

The journey is the thing - day counts are merely sign posts.

I shared my belief.... but I've seen some others have success with a cumulative count too.

You have to decide for yourself which is the most beneficial to you

D