The other shoe drops.
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Dear EG,
Wow, thank you for offloading the back-story (terrible pun) of this 'terrible, wrong thing' you did. I tend to wholly 'get' what you're saying AND I resonate with the wise words and experiences of Dee, Robby, Haennie on the matter.
Just a few observations:
you spoke of your skiving off home to rest as perhaps 'displacing [your] feelings'. Well, having been in such a situation re work and not being well many many times, I can suggest that instead you were appropriately listening to your feelings. You were in pain and exhausted, wrung out: your body and mind were saying 'enough already! Time to rest'. And instead of dragging yourself through against that inner imperative, you took yourself off home to do just that.
Sure, you didn't tell anyone - and in the context of the (rather silly, arbitrary) 'policy', felt guilty about that. I get that. Indeed, I used to feel guilty even when I'd ring up the office to say I can't come in today, or this morning at least due to illness / exhaustion / mental health day. Much of those times, I'd make my suffering worse whilst lying at home, by writhing in the guilt. Madness!
Even since those days (job ended mid-2009, after seven years), as my chronic conditions worsened - and my alcoholism is only one, it's taking me a very long time to re-frame the sense of 'being useless / irresponsible / not-contributing through working' to one of acceptance. This is what it is, for me now.
In a sense - only a small sense, mind - I've been hearing an echo in your posts of some tendencies you described as Maryanne's during her working life. A bit of drivenness, 'can't stop', 'shouldn't stop', 'must do', 'ought to do', 'should be doing'...that kind of thing. I know I'm putting it too crudely, but maybe you get my drift.
On a positive note, I think Haennie's point about perhaps a bit of up-front collective reform to this 'policy' is very sound. A needed corrective, precisely so that those such as yourself (and probably others) aren't forced into the kind of 'eff it' / flight mode like the other day.
Wow, thank you for offloading the back-story (terrible pun) of this 'terrible, wrong thing' you did. I tend to wholly 'get' what you're saying AND I resonate with the wise words and experiences of Dee, Robby, Haennie on the matter.
Just a few observations:
you spoke of your skiving off home to rest as perhaps 'displacing [your] feelings'. Well, having been in such a situation re work and not being well many many times, I can suggest that instead you were appropriately listening to your feelings. You were in pain and exhausted, wrung out: your body and mind were saying 'enough already! Time to rest'. And instead of dragging yourself through against that inner imperative, you took yourself off home to do just that.
Sure, you didn't tell anyone - and in the context of the (rather silly, arbitrary) 'policy', felt guilty about that. I get that. Indeed, I used to feel guilty even when I'd ring up the office to say I can't come in today, or this morning at least due to illness / exhaustion / mental health day. Much of those times, I'd make my suffering worse whilst lying at home, by writhing in the guilt. Madness!
Even since those days (job ended mid-2009, after seven years), as my chronic conditions worsened - and my alcoholism is only one, it's taking me a very long time to re-frame the sense of 'being useless / irresponsible / not-contributing through working' to one of acceptance. This is what it is, for me now.
In a sense - only a small sense, mind - I've been hearing an echo in your posts of some tendencies you described as Maryanne's during her working life. A bit of drivenness, 'can't stop', 'shouldn't stop', 'must do', 'ought to do', 'should be doing'...that kind of thing. I know I'm putting it too crudely, but maybe you get my drift.
On a positive note, I think Haennie's point about perhaps a bit of up-front collective reform to this 'policy' is very sound. A needed corrective, precisely so that those such as yourself (and probably others) aren't forced into the kind of 'eff it' / flight mode like the other day.
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PS EG, I also very much heard your concerns about a possible pre-relapse pattern starting within yourself. I greatly admire your ability to be seeing that with much awareness. Wish I'd had the same, many times, over this past few years of multiple relapses, I really do. However, as I was fumbling to suggest above, it seems a bit counter-productive in that regard to over-egg the guilt pudding for this particular, and very specific set of circumstances, and blow it up into 'OMG, warning! warning! red alert! this is the downhill slope to relapse!'. I believe you have both the experience and the acuity of mind to be able to put some of that black n white thinking back into some perspective, no?
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Whoops, cross posted while you were replying to LBrain!
On your egging day: personally, I saw that thread, and thought to myself 'gee, it's great to see EG being a hoot and just having a bit of fun with the gang'. Would be good to see you do it more often, Prof. After all, if you can't get many laughs at the mo IRL, gee, just drop in to some of the wackier riffs on SR.
On your egging day: personally, I saw that thread, and thought to myself 'gee, it's great to see EG being a hoot and just having a bit of fun with the gang'. Would be good to see you do it more often, Prof. After all, if you can't get many laughs at the mo IRL, gee, just drop in to some of the wackier riffs on SR.
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I sensed something was going on yesterday but I figured that posting and whooping it up was a bit of self-therapy.
What is most important is recognizing a behavior within yourself that may be cause for concern. Isolate it and analyze it, then take corrective action.
Also, integrity rules!
What is most important is recognizing a behavior within yourself that may be cause for concern. Isolate it and analyze it, then take corrective action.
Also, integrity rules!
EndGame
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Originally Posted by LBrain 
I sensed something was going on yesterday but I figured that posting and whooping it up was a bit of self-therapy.
What is most important is recognizing a behavior within yourself that may be cause for concern. Isolate it and analyze it, then take corrective action.
Also, integrity rules!
What is most important is recognizing a behavior within yourself that may be cause for concern. Isolate it and analyze it, then take corrective action.
Also, integrity rules!
The dam broke, and I was allowing myself some much needed perspective on the whole situation, which I think is what you're alluding to. I felt a rush of relief, even before I worked through things at work, and I was expressing it in a childlike manner on your thread.
Thanks.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by haennie
I'm so sorry about all this, my friend. You know what I've been thinking a few times already? Not just reading your post here from today. That perhaps you react to the recent stresses in the wrong way -- instead of finding more time to relax and engaging in non-demanging activities and with people who might lift you up, you take on more work, more responsibilities, more desire to help Mary Ann...
I don't disagree with any of the observations in your post. I don't believe that I always see the full picture of what's going on with me, particularly when I'm managing stress. You and others here have given me a lot to think about, but I'm now putting off any serious inner work, based on all your recommendations.
About the course I'm teaching...I gave it a lot of thought before I accepted the position, and I sought counsel from a couple of people I trust. Much of my clinical work has been with people who have experienced or are now experiencing loss -- of love, of other people, of the self they came to know. And much of my work in research involves themes of loss. There are no accidents.
So far, it's done a good job in helping me to maintain some perspective about things, even when it touches the most fragile parts of me. I haven't yet experienced it as being overly stressful.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Hi EndGame.
Sorry to hear about your feeling very vulnerable yesterday. I hope your efforts today for damage control will suffice for yesterday. I'm much in agreement with haennie's insights and suggestions, and haven't much too add, she has really covered all the bases.
I can say, speaking as a patient, it takes a lot of effort to care and look after me. There are so many dynamic levels and so on. As soon as we add in personal relationships like sister/ brother and husband /wife things can really become entangled both positively and not so positively.
I think it's okay for care of our loved ones to be in a well organized collective of helping hands. I know for me personally, its the way I'm going to suggest for my own care.
In any case, as always, I admire you, my good friend EndGame.
Hope your day is better and remains so going forward.
Sorry to hear about your feeling very vulnerable yesterday. I hope your efforts today for damage control will suffice for yesterday. I'm much in agreement with haennie's insights and suggestions, and haven't much too add, she has really covered all the bases.
I can say, speaking as a patient, it takes a lot of effort to care and look after me. There are so many dynamic levels and so on. As soon as we add in personal relationships like sister/ brother and husband /wife things can really become entangled both positively and not so positively.
I think it's okay for care of our loved ones to be in a well organized collective of helping hands. I know for me personally, its the way I'm going to suggest for my own care.
In any case, as always, I admire you, my good friend EndGame.
Hope your day is better and remains so going forward.
Thanks for your caring support.
It wasn't feeling vulnerable that bothered me, but what I did with it. That's not been my way when I'm sober.
My actions and my thoughts transported me back to a time and place in which the sober me now feels to be in great danger, though I didn't care what I did to myself at the time. It was extremely unpleasant, and there are still some aftershocks of that unintended trip.
I've learned a great deal from you since I've been here, Robby. When I first got here, I would marvel at your openness and your honesty. And your willingness to help other people through your own experience. Still do.
Keep up your good work.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I've no doubt it was disturbing, EndGame.
This whole situation must be incredibly wearing on you.
The difference is you're not 'old you' anymore - no matter how vulnerable you feel or how many times you say eff it
Maybe, if anything, take this as a sign that you might need more attention to your own needs too ?
D
This whole situation must be incredibly wearing on you.
The difference is you're not 'old you' anymore - no matter how vulnerable you feel or how many times you say eff it
Maybe, if anything, take this as a sign that you might need more attention to your own needs too ?
D
It never ceases to amaze me, and apparently a lot of other people, that you seem to have an unlimited capacity for wisdom, and that you express it so well. You've clearly learned a great deal from your struggles and that, to me, is a tremendous achievement.
I need, finally, to admit that, yes, this has been wearing me down. I'm not always "myself" these days but, as you commented, I am also not and do not need to be, the "old me." Ever again.
This weekend, starting tomorrow, I'm going to put all my energies into relaxing. Kind of an oxymoron, since I don't need energy to relax, but I do need to be thoughtful about it.
I'm also attending a seminar/training session with the head of the Egyptian Karate Team, ranked only second, I believe, to Japan.
Thanks again for your considered support.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by Verte
In all seriousness, you are human EndGame.
With regards to work, even when you know better, you are allowed to 'eff up. You do not have to know everything. And explaining your circumstances to a trusted superior is not the same as making excuses. From an outside (friend from afar) perspective, even if you are sitting still, there has been a seismic shift in your reality. There is no surprise that things within have jiggled loose a bit.
This post is meant to be comforting as it appears as if you are quite conscientious irl in so many ways. Yes, you work and function in the clinical realm; however, your life, your being, is not and no amount of conscientiousness can change this or prevent what must happen from happening. It is OK to be affected by your sister's experience and not know exactly how.
Take a giant hug, EG.
With regards to work, even when you know better, you are allowed to 'eff up. You do not have to know everything. And explaining your circumstances to a trusted superior is not the same as making excuses. From an outside (friend from afar) perspective, even if you are sitting still, there has been a seismic shift in your reality. There is no surprise that things within have jiggled loose a bit.
This post is meant to be comforting as it appears as if you are quite conscientious irl in so many ways. Yes, you work and function in the clinical realm; however, your life, your being, is not and no amount of conscientiousness can change this or prevent what must happen from happening. It is OK to be affected by your sister's experience and not know exactly how.
Take a giant hug, EG.
Thank you so much for your kind and insightful words and observations.
Sending back an equally giant hug, sans emoticon.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I can certainly identify with how you feel EndGame...I've felt the same way many times, including sometimes here on SR.
It's not wrong to have high standards - as long as you realise it's likely noone else will ever share those standards with you
I think tho, it is wrong if you're suffering in any way from those high standards.
I was the King of Stoicism and the Prince of Responsibility.
Looking back, my work ethic in my early recovery years was a lot like my drinking ethic - full steam ahead and damn the consequences (to me).
I've, finally, learned a little balance.
What I once would have thought of as a selfish decision to step away and take a break from work, I now see as a necessary - sometimes mandatory - decision, even if it does mean sometimes someone else has to pull up the slack.
I'm not indestructible and I'm not impervious.
I'm not indispensible either.
Realising all those things was a revelation to me
D
It's not wrong to have high standards - as long as you realise it's likely noone else will ever share those standards with you
I think tho, it is wrong if you're suffering in any way from those high standards.
I was the King of Stoicism and the Prince of Responsibility.
Looking back, my work ethic in my early recovery years was a lot like my drinking ethic - full steam ahead and damn the consequences (to me).
I've, finally, learned a little balance.
What I once would have thought of as a selfish decision to step away and take a break from work, I now see as a necessary - sometimes mandatory - decision, even if it does mean sometimes someone else has to pull up the slack.
I'm not indestructible and I'm not impervious.
I'm not indispensible either.
Realising all those things was a revelation to me
D
I've noticed that I've been "overindulging" in work recently, a way to distract myself from what's happening, to not have to deal with all of it on an emotional level. It's no coincidence, then, that I took out my frustrations at work.
The bolded part of your comments, to me, indicates a type or level of perfectionism that is clearly self-destructive, and I was gracious enough to act this out. Now is not the time to attempt to live up to unrealistic standards of behavior.
Thanks again.
EndGame
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Ironically, I'm too sleepy just now to give a better response. I do want to say though that for every responsibility folk such as us have decided to own and tether ourselves with, it has long been my policy to also remind my self that perfection in performance to said responsibilities is a poor measure of actual responsibility, since perfection itself is at best an ideal, and at worst impractical.
It's always best to measure our responsibilities with an eye to our real-time humanity, yeah?
Such beautiful shares from so many wonderful people. How awesome.
It's always best to measure our responsibilities with an eye to our real-time humanity, yeah?
Such beautiful shares from so many wonderful people. How awesome.
And yes, I'm overwhelmed by the amount and the quality of support.
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Thank you for such a great thread EG. Having a sense of your contributions here at SR I can only imagine the attention and concern you bring to your face to face interactions. You pay attention to what people are saying and the support you offer reflects that, that is a lot of output. Perhaps honor the lightness that a bit of frivolity really is as important as the serious, responsible load you shoulder.
I had to learn to play, it still doesn't come easily to me. I have learned to appreciate those snippets of hilarity that arise throughout the day. Today after the dentist the tech was going over a bit of aftercare and told me I should give my mouth a rest today and not do anything extreme, "like eating a big sandwich". I don't know why but that slayed me and I started howling with laughter thinking she imagined me heading out to buy one of those 6 footers you eat during football games. It was such a silly little thing but it punctuated my day pleasantly.
There are a lot of deep thinkers that have shared on this thread, and the beauty of SR is that we are lucky to be able to find different moods that suit us. I have been doing a lot of heavy thinking to try process early trauma. Going this deep means there is a sort of second narrative in my head observing my own behavior to measure if it applies to what I am unearthing.
But today it felt good to come up for air, do some things for myself, if going to the dentist is considered playing I still have some work to do. I didn't feel like thinking about whether I was reverting to being pleasing, or whether my narcissistic lineage was poking through. I needed a break from self awareness today.
I think a lot of processing goes on when we have been intense about an issue and we take a respite. I used to be shocked when I would get back on the ice after working for hours on something one day without success. Almost without doubt, the next time I stepped on the ice the move would come to me. Major bonus, the wheels were turning and I had no clue.
Maybe you could go have the "big sandwich" that I am not allowed to eat?
I had to learn to play, it still doesn't come easily to me. I have learned to appreciate those snippets of hilarity that arise throughout the day. Today after the dentist the tech was going over a bit of aftercare and told me I should give my mouth a rest today and not do anything extreme, "like eating a big sandwich". I don't know why but that slayed me and I started howling with laughter thinking she imagined me heading out to buy one of those 6 footers you eat during football games. It was such a silly little thing but it punctuated my day pleasantly.
There are a lot of deep thinkers that have shared on this thread, and the beauty of SR is that we are lucky to be able to find different moods that suit us. I have been doing a lot of heavy thinking to try process early trauma. Going this deep means there is a sort of second narrative in my head observing my own behavior to measure if it applies to what I am unearthing.
But today it felt good to come up for air, do some things for myself, if going to the dentist is considered playing I still have some work to do. I didn't feel like thinking about whether I was reverting to being pleasing, or whether my narcissistic lineage was poking through. I needed a break from self awareness today.
I think a lot of processing goes on when we have been intense about an issue and we take a respite. I used to be shocked when I would get back on the ice after working for hours on something one day without success. Almost without doubt, the next time I stepped on the ice the move would come to me. Major bonus, the wheels were turning and I had no clue.
Maybe you could go have the "big sandwich" that I am not allowed to eat?
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
Thanks Dee.
It never ceases to amaze me, and apparently a lot of other people, that you seem to have an unlimited capacity for wisdom, and that you express it so well. You've clearly learned a great deal from your struggles and that, to me, is a tremendous achievement.
Dee, your comment about being the King of Stoicism was salient. I wonder how common a thread that is among "folks like us." At times, I've described myself as the Queen of Suppression. I'm hoping to be downgraded to duchess one of these days ...
EndGame
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I'm very grateful today for all the help and support I've gotten here, and I want to remind those of you who've helped me through this process that it does make a difference. Some people have also sent me PMs of support, and a few others who haven't posted on this thread have also sent supportive PMs. SR is truly a unique resource.
Last night, apparently before reading my responses to several people who posted here regarding my situation at work and other things, someone on SR, someone whose thoughts and feelings I value, sent me a very thoughtful PM, the crux of which was that she was worried about me. She expressed her thoughts and feelings extremely well, and I was very much moved by them. Then, after reading the more recent comments, she sent me another PM, basically saying that she was happy that things were getting better for me.
My thing is that, she actually does have cause for concern. I don't at all feel that I'm out of the woods, due to resolving the presenting problem at work or as a result of the tremendous support I've received here. The truth is that I don't just bounce back from what for me is an emotionally traumatic event that seemed to shake my sober foundation. It just isn't me to put on a happy facade and move away quickly from something so disturbing, putting it in a pretty box, placing a bow on top, and then relegating it to the past as a "lesson learned." I'm reminded again of how much near-daily help I needed to survive when I was newly sober.
I'm not petitioning for extra support -- which wouldn't be a bad thing -- but instead learning from my experience, and the experiences of others who shared here, as I make my way through this process and not as a lesson learned that no longer requires my attention.
I was attempting to respond to each of you individually last night, and then had to stop myself, realizing that, though I got a great deal out of doing so for myself, I was again trying to do something that was creating additional stress, as per many of your comments. So I'll address all of you and your comments here and now.
Most of the people who've responded to me here in this thread are people who "know" me here, who generally pay attention to what I have to say, who've offered support in the past, and who've graciously accepted my support, and who also, God bless you, let me know when I've overreached or simply missed the mark. Where else can you get such genuine interactions? And people with whom I'm not so familiar also have some good things to contribute.
It's impossible for me to dismiss or minimize people's comments, particularly when so many of them seem to be in agreement. It's not always your comments themselves, but your willingness to make the time to respond that's transformational for me. All in all, I think this process is helping me to move in a better direction and, one would hope, move to a better place, but I'm not there yet.
I'm not in danger of drinking. And I'm now -- and again -- very grateful that I put in the work to get where I am in sobriety. I believe that my problems, our problems, are always of an existential nature, regardless of how, when and where we play them out. What I mean by this is that our being in the world necessitates that our very being will be shaken from time to time and that this is neither a good nor a bad thing. It just is. And what we do with those challenges can make all the difference in the world. It can leave us exactly where we are, bring us to a place where we're more prepared to face additional challenges, or make things much worse. There are no rewards or punishments, only consequences. The process and the reality of alcoholism through sobriety is a metaphor for this process, what brings us together and then what separates us from people who don't share our common struggle.
Thank you again, all of you, for your continuing support.
Last night, apparently before reading my responses to several people who posted here regarding my situation at work and other things, someone on SR, someone whose thoughts and feelings I value, sent me a very thoughtful PM, the crux of which was that she was worried about me. She expressed her thoughts and feelings extremely well, and I was very much moved by them. Then, after reading the more recent comments, she sent me another PM, basically saying that she was happy that things were getting better for me.
My thing is that, she actually does have cause for concern. I don't at all feel that I'm out of the woods, due to resolving the presenting problem at work or as a result of the tremendous support I've received here. The truth is that I don't just bounce back from what for me is an emotionally traumatic event that seemed to shake my sober foundation. It just isn't me to put on a happy facade and move away quickly from something so disturbing, putting it in a pretty box, placing a bow on top, and then relegating it to the past as a "lesson learned." I'm reminded again of how much near-daily help I needed to survive when I was newly sober.
I'm not petitioning for extra support -- which wouldn't be a bad thing -- but instead learning from my experience, and the experiences of others who shared here, as I make my way through this process and not as a lesson learned that no longer requires my attention.
I was attempting to respond to each of you individually last night, and then had to stop myself, realizing that, though I got a great deal out of doing so for myself, I was again trying to do something that was creating additional stress, as per many of your comments. So I'll address all of you and your comments here and now.
Most of the people who've responded to me here in this thread are people who "know" me here, who generally pay attention to what I have to say, who've offered support in the past, and who've graciously accepted my support, and who also, God bless you, let me know when I've overreached or simply missed the mark. Where else can you get such genuine interactions? And people with whom I'm not so familiar also have some good things to contribute.
It's impossible for me to dismiss or minimize people's comments, particularly when so many of them seem to be in agreement. It's not always your comments themselves, but your willingness to make the time to respond that's transformational for me. All in all, I think this process is helping me to move in a better direction and, one would hope, move to a better place, but I'm not there yet.
I'm not in danger of drinking. And I'm now -- and again -- very grateful that I put in the work to get where I am in sobriety. I believe that my problems, our problems, are always of an existential nature, regardless of how, when and where we play them out. What I mean by this is that our being in the world necessitates that our very being will be shaken from time to time and that this is neither a good nor a bad thing. It just is. And what we do with those challenges can make all the difference in the world. It can leave us exactly where we are, bring us to a place where we're more prepared to face additional challenges, or make things much worse. There are no rewards or punishments, only consequences. The process and the reality of alcoholism through sobriety is a metaphor for this process, what brings us together and then what separates us from people who don't share our common struggle.
Thank you again, all of you, for your continuing support.
EndGame
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Update
My sister saw one of her doctors today, and got good news.
Her vital signs are perfect, whereas the doctor said people are typically "all over the map" at this stage of chemotherapy. All of her internal organs continue to be strong and function well. He said that she should have lost her hair by now, but she still has a full head of hair. He also said that she looks good and seems very strong, that she has a lot to be happy about so far.
As a joke, I asked her if she told him about my stress-related back pain this week. (It's become an inside joke between the two of us that I ask her if she's told her doctors about my current ailments, imaginary or real.) She said that she did tell him, and that he said he hopes that it's not from an injury. It isn't, and I'm back to near-normal as I type this.
Her vital signs are perfect, whereas the doctor said people are typically "all over the map" at this stage of chemotherapy. All of her internal organs continue to be strong and function well. He said that she should have lost her hair by now, but she still has a full head of hair. He also said that she looks good and seems very strong, that she has a lot to be happy about so far.
As a joke, I asked her if she told him about my stress-related back pain this week. (It's become an inside joke between the two of us that I ask her if she's told her doctors about my current ailments, imaginary or real.) She said that she did tell him, and that he said he hopes that it's not from an injury. It isn't, and I'm back to near-normal as I type this.
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