Dave36

Yeah I agree. If you have 11 days in you gotta be through the worst of it right? Like I said I don't have any experience with that but I've been through alcohol withdrawl plenty of times. Been in the hospital for it 3 times. I know it's different but after I was sober a week and a half would it make sense to you if I had just one beer every 2 hours because I felt like **** still. Seems to me your just prolonging this whole thing when you could just kick now. Your already so far down that road. Maybe just stay the course. But again I've never been through that so idk

Dave36

I'm not trying to be harsh if that's the way you need to go do it. But I lied to myself for years. I would drink so much that my tolerance got so high I was in almost constant withdrawl which manifested it's self in many ways the worst though was insane anxiety. Felt like I was losing my mind. So what did I do ? I start popping Xanax like crazy. Because of course I wasn't an alcoholic I had an anxiety disorder. It couldn't have been the fifth of vodka and the 6 beers I drank yesterday. I would do anything to keep drinking. All I'm trying to say is I could lie to myself so well that I completely believed it. Just be sure that's not what you're doing. Good luck either way.

Jupiters

thanks for sharing your experience with this and I hope you make the best decision for you.
I'm going to do some reading on this and have a talk with my brother next time I see him.

Bartacomus

Sisyphus- Yup, surely know how to stack up the grief, theres no doubt there.

Opiphobe- I have to agree with you and Dave on the value of 11 days.. it took a lot to get here. Its nice to be able to talk with people going through the same thing as I, or have gone through it. hope I can help in return in some way. I sent you a message, I would like to keep in contact about our mutual plight.

Dave- I don't think youre being harsh, infact its welcomed.. its not a rose garden that's for certain, I want good honest opinion and experience. Completely needed your and Opiophobes side of the story.. I mean, I am an addict.. im here because I make deals with myself. Id convinced myself yesterday that I had indeed met my "breaking point" but managed to keep myself indoors. Stinkin thinkin as my AA buddies put it.. yesterday was the first time I was trying to make a deal with myself.. maybe that's just because Suboxone is so slow to clear.. slow to start WD, slow to peak, slow to go away.. that's why I don't pull anypunches when it comes to taking hard look at it. idk, having a hard time putting words together to make much sense.. a lot of ramble.

jupiters- thanks for being supportive, I hope you and your brothers recovery is fruitful

I apologize guys if Im not making any sense. At this point, today, this is just stream of thought..

Adnamaeel

Bartacomas,
I have no experience with subs, but I did taper myself off of oxy because I was too afraid to go cold turkey. In retrospect, I would have been better off if I had gone cold turkey, because I spent a month in acute withdrawal rather than a week, but I couldn't quite grasp that while I was going through it.
Withdrawal is horrible, and I don't think there's any way to get around it, but you've probably already gotten yourself half way there by now, I don't think it makes good sense to put yourself in a position that will require you to start this process over. Every ache and sleepless night is one less that you ever have to experience again.
You need to figure out what is right for you, but you're already well on the road to being free of this. Please give it serious thought before you put yourself right back in the same place where you started.

OpioPhobe

Bartacomus - personally, I think you are pretty coherent under the circumstances. There are some folks that come on that are kicking hard, and you can see their minds meandering off the path of sanity. It is actually pretty sad when someone comes on with some ridiculous plan that is akin to getting in their car and driving it off a cliff doing 120 mph. Most of the time those last for 24 hours and then the person signs off and is never heard from again. Anyone would be having trouble with thought processes after dealing with the insomnia that comes with withdrawal. So, no worries bud. You are doing fine given the circumstances.

I think you are making the right decision to keep plugging away at this point. Now you are at 12 days, which means that you have the 12 toughest days behind you. Those days are extremely valuable. Don't trade them away for anything. Ya, the sub withdrawal tends to be significantly longer than a short-acting opi, but 12 days is still deep into the acute withdrawal phase. You will be turning the corner before you know it.

How have you been on eating? I also find that forcing myself to eat even when I don't feel like it is critical. There were some kicks that I was on where I didn't do that, and before I knew it 4 days had passed with me eating 1 peanut butter sandwich in total over that period. Of course I felt like crap! I would have felt terrible without the withdrawal added on top of it.

Have you been able to get out and exercise? This is advice that I hear thrown around a lot, and it is for good reason in my opinion. That is the only effective way that I have found to help with the 'nervous energy' you get. It doesn't make it go away completely, but exercise did help me with the twitching / thrashing around at night. When I just switched from H to subs I had a really rough first night. I went out to the driveway in the middle of the night and went to town on the snow. It wasn't like I was out there for hours or anything, but I hit it hard while I was out there. Taking a hot bath after exercising also helps tremendously. I think exercise coupled with a hot bath is the best thing for insomnia during withdrawal. Prescription meds that I took to try to go to sleep ended up just making me feel fatigued, but I was still awake. The times that I was able to get sleep on the prescription meds really shouldn't be called sleep at all. It was more like an unsupervised medically induced coma.

If you feel like you are getting to your "breaking point" come on and just keep posting. The times that I got tripped up were when it was that bad, and I started panicking about it being that bad indefinitely. Whenever I got to the point during withdrawal where it got real bad it was important to keep calm and realize that it wasn't going to be that bad indefinitely. Not long after that it would let up some. It might come back again later on that bad, but it would let up again. If it really had stayed that bad consistently over the entire withdrawal I would have been in for it. So, when you are at your "breaking point" try to keep it in mind that it won't be that bad forever.

My last dose of sub was this AM so I am coming in right behind you. I know that getting through withdrawal is easier said that done so I hope that I can do as well as you have.

least

Welcome to the family. I'm glad you joined us. I have no experience with subs but lots of others do here. There is also a forum just for suboxone/methadone problems.

I also love your avatar.

Bartacomus

Hey guys, thanks hanging in there with me. Adnamael and Opiophobe, I have had the same experience with tripping in the middle, and it being like I starting over.. whatever characteristics opiates have, its as if they are not minor set backs, but that completely starting over.
Opiophobe I think you will do well on your come down.. ive tried to do some of the things you mentioned, but some I have been a little tough. The biggest positive contributor (and this is for anybody reading this) to lessen opiate withdrawals, imo, is absolutely no stimulant intake. If you aren't prescribed a beta-blocker or some other smooth muscle relaxant, you can at least promote a natural state by avoiding sodium, caffeine, alcohol and tobacco. That hypertension becomes systemic, so if one of the strong contributors of discomfort are these smooth muscles, and we take something like caffeine, it becomes a force multiplier. exercise is out for me, at least it is at this point it is.. I managed some sleeping pills a few nights ago, enough to provide at least a couple nights rest.. so I thought. When I did try them, my mind was so sharp edged that they had no effect. Once they were all gone, I laid down and was passed out for a little over 2 hours. Still daylight. Im not promoting do that to anyone.. but the rest I did achieve was exactly how you said Opiophobe .. kinda hollow, more like I closed my eyes for two hours instead.

Im here for you man as you transition.. I got faith in ya.

Thanks for dropping by Least.. you guys have made quite a nice little place here. You have so many posts! Busy with hardcore recovery.. and you still took the time to swing by and welcome the new kidd.. I just want to say, that's pretty awesome.
I want to repeat that to all of you.. youre all pretty awesome.

barticles..

Verte

Barticles. I agree with least and the others, your avatar is super smile worthy.

Your rationale for continuing solo cold-turkey is understandable. No matter what though, please keep it in your plan to get emergency care should thinks get wonky. Or wonkier. Does anyone in real life know your exact situation right now?

Bartacomus

Verte- I am taking the steps to get into a out-patient as we speak, but i know what i think i should do.. which is stay the course.. maybe the pain will subside befre i have to make a call like that.. but things are getting a little worse so.. idk, im having a hard time reading.
The only people who know of my situation right now is because i stopped calling them.. and by that i mean the people that i need to stay away from. I had to tunr of the phone.. because a couple people wanted to "help" me out to get me back on "track".

you guys have been my best support structure as of yet

OpioPhobe

Haha...they'll help you get back on track alright...on the train to hell. I have always wanted someone that quit to call their dealer with an order. Then you text them every hour saying that you will "be there in 20". That is 20 mins dealer time, which means 1 to 4 hours normal time. After messing with them for a while tell them that you are at a friends house. Then give them the address for the city dump, and tell them that you can meet up there at 4AM. If they did show up you could say that you were staying at a foreman's shack out there "behind the fifth big pile of garbage bags". Oh man, that would be a small portion of the payback for all the days you were writhing in pain while waiting on them.

You are right on about the high bp. I cut out all sodium during the withdrawal. Caffeine isn't going anywhere though . That will be my last 'addiction' to go. I think that is another reason that the hot bath helps so much.

If you search through my old threads there is one called "Sleep Paralysis During Withdrawal" that describes a night I had about a year ago. That involved sleep paralysis for hours and hours, lucid dreaming, and even remaining conscious during the deeper stages of sleep. That last level was really wild because I was still self-aware, but I was not able to generate any thoughts. It was kind of like meditation except all of the thoughts that would normally pop into my head were artificially removed. Weird things can happen when you are really sleep deprived and mix that with sleeping aids.

SarahB60

Welcome Bartacomus!!

My son was on suboxone for a few years after he left the Army. He got "clean" once and for all last March. He said it was a horrible detox. Unfortunately, he relapsed within two months back to optiates and passed away from an accidental overdose for oxycontin and vicidon. I firmly believe he did not have the right support system in place after he detoxed from suboxone. If he did, he might still be here.

Grungehead

I was prescribed sub back in 2005 because I thought it was going to be a painless way to get off of opiates (that's what the doctor made it sound like). Turns out that trying to get off the sub was 1000 times harder than it would have been to quit the opiates cold turkey, and that was after a very slow taper. The doctor kept me on it for months, and I'm pretty sure that was so he could charge me every month for office visits to get refills. I've heard that a very short course, like 2 weeks max tapering right from the start, is more effective with less chance of getting cross addicted. I feel your pain Bartacomus.

saoutchik

Hi Bartacomus,

Appreciate that you are in tough place right now

How are you doing ?

Ladywind

Are you ok?

Bartacomus

Hey guys, I am back to square one. From such a brilliant start.. almost akin to someone very close to finishing school.. and quitting. Im not sure if the addict or self preservation is the culprit.
Physical symptom of OPiate withdrawal averages a little over a week, while Subxone withdrawal vary that are 2 weeks to months.
I had been handing regular withdrawal syndrome for a little over week until the lasck of lsleep and dehydration took hold and everynew day multiplies my frustrationand resolve. When the headhache came, I lost positive thought and for the frist time in those almost 2 weeks.. I gave up.

this is the first time ive been embarrassed back into this, and am not happy.

A few of you i have made close acquaintances with, and i am having ahard time confiding this you have made great impact.. and this is the first time ive guilty.

+Sarahb60.... I am so sorry for your lost, i cant begin to lighten how you feel.. you have helped me a lot with that message, i hope my experience has helped you.. i only want the best for you.. and i honor ours wit hevery fibre in my body, and i KNOW your son was a hero.. that did a good job. a wonderful person. You are most important in my prayers.

+grungehead --- im with you completely.. i started cold turkey twice the minium therapeutic does at cold turkey. ehhh, im making excuses,

+saoutchick --- im starting over.. in the grey.. no clue.. glad you are here helping me.

+ladywind my friend, as you've already seen.. i started over. not in a very good position mentally. guilt.

Guys i feel a bit like a tourist, and its taken a lot to combat the coward and to come back and stand up straight to say i took Soboxone ... i don't know still ajumple of nerves and thought.

neferkamichael

Bartacomus, rootin for ya.

Ladywind

Hi Bart
You don't have anything to feel guilty about. The end result is going to be the same no matter which way you have gone about it. You know my opinion and that is to do it with supervision anyhow.
Glad to hear from you again

OpioPhobe

Bart - I recently had a similar experience where I took methadone for a short-term taper, posted during the thick of it, and then disappeared for a short while. When I came back I had to fess up to having failed at the detox. It was really tough on me to come on and admit defeat when there had been a lot of folks routing for me. Even though it is a cyber community the feeling of letting others down in a situation like that is very real. To be honest, there were times this summer when I was tempted to just ride off into the sunset and never come back on here. That was after spending months getting to know people on here. At the end of the day I came back on, fessed up, and then started working to get myself back on track. It definitely took the wind out of my sails though.

For what it is worth, I commend you for showing back up and being honest. You could have taken the easy way out and just disappeared. Also, don't forget that you did make it 11 days. It took a lot of willpower and determination to make it that long through an opiate withdrawal. If you can make it that long after jumping at a relatively high dose you can climb the whole mountain once you are done with your taper.

As far as going back to square one goes did you go back to your previous daily dosage? If your plan is to taper under a doctor's supervision do you have the appointment set up? Hopefully it isn't too far away from now. Maybe you could explain the situation and see if he can offer guidance for your dosing prior to your meeting. Hopefully you can be held at something less than you were taking before. That would let you start the taper at a lower starting dose, and it would give you something to show for the 11 days of withdrawal you just went through.

My last dose was Tuesday, and today things started heating up for me. I am going to give it everything I have. Any last minute tips that you learned over this last attempt?

Bartacomus

Thanks Nef, Thank Ladywinds.. you guys are half the reason I am back on here, ever though I broke down after 11/12 days..

Opiophobe -- thanks, yeah, I wanted to come back here.. although I admit.. im not motivated to forum, ot chat.. and I really ejoyed myself when I was.. but anyway. first time in my life I felt embarrassed to take a medicine.. and this isn't even an illegal drug, this is a drug that is supposed ot be beneficial,. of course I know its not, but I still felt guilty.

my first run too a lot of willpower, and I had a lot of anger that I leveled at my decisions and the medicine and the people I was hanging around.. it helped affirm they were nothing but evil.

you know I was interested in going through the same thing with you at the same time, for comparative reason, but we have to reverse roles.

the suboxone I got I plan on quartered step down.. theres a lot ot be done for the clinic.. I got my gov paperwork they asked I have to wait till doc is there to do final script.. and then start. not sure if they pass it out there or send me to dispensary day to day. im not sure at this point.. I can t allow myself to not aggrsively approach this thing.. not as aggressive as when I did it myself. but stringently, and painfully if neededbe.

if you like opiophobe, or anyone else listening.. ill send you better wys to reach me.. and in those horrible moments. we can stay in contact and talk.

your guilt ridden buddy.. bart.