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A Radical New Approach To Recovery From Substance Abuse

Old 02-23-2015, 02:58 PM
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A Radical New Approach To Recovery From Substance Abuse

A Radical New Approach to Recovery from Substance Abuse

Here, I am presenting a new approach to recovery from substance abuse. I modified the focus of this approach for this forum to specifically focus on Alcoholism. However, the approach will work for other forms of substance abuse as well. I realize, by it’s very nature, that this approach is controversial. All recovery programs begin with one person recovering. No one program works for every individual. Every alcoholic needs to find a program of recovery that works for them. I do not argue that my program is more or less effective than any other program for any individual. However, this program will work for a niche population of people that have not found a solution yet. This program is also not for people that have found programs that work for them and are currently have long term sobriety. This program is for those that have tried other programs and have not yet found a way to stop drinking and for people that don’t know why they cannot stop. It is also designed for people with severe substance abuse problems; severe alcoholism, with a rational and secular view on the world. . Compared to other programs of recovery it is unique, but fits within the framework of programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and AVRT. It allows for the same psychological alterations that help so many in AA, without the need of a belief in a higher power or a spiritual existence. It also helps to explain why AVRT works for some people. This program doesn’t have 12 steps or any meetings (yet). (Although, I would suggest that if these seem like useful options to you then they don’t negate, but only add to the effectiveness of this program.) I would suggest those working 12 step programs and going to meetings, continue to do that.

Admittedly, this program is a work in progress, however, it is the only thing that I have found to work for me. I wanted to share the 1st part of this program with this forum, despite the wording not final. Currently this program can be used to get the benefits of 12 step programs, without the need of believing in a higher power. Because I still think that this program, even in it’s early stages, may help people, I’m going to share it’s beginnings with you all. Of course it will be more effective and reach a much broader audience when it’s published, but for now, it may be good enough to change some peoples lives who are still struggling.

The first thing that you have to come to realize is going to go against the most basic and core of your beliefs. It’s very difficult to grasp because it is intertwined and a precursor for all of your learning and memory. It is the idea that you choose to be, and continue to choose to be an alcoholic, or partake in the activity ingesting alcohol. That it is your will that ultimately decides continue drinking. Some people call it free will. Defined here as the idea that we could have chosen not to do something. You could have chosen not to drink, but you chose to drink, but you could have chosen not to drink, but you did drink, therefore you are responsible for your relapse, simply is not true. It feels true, because the illusion that you choose your decisions is such a biologically conserved phenomnia that it is very difficult to see reality.

Now some of you have probably thought about stopping reading at this point because this sounds very farfetched. If that crossed your mind, but you are still reading this, then you are ready to go a little deeper. You are still reading. Are you actively choosing to continue reading this? Or has the decision to stop reading this simply not occurred to you yet or haven’t you decided to stop reading yet. What is driving you to continue reading this. My guess is that you are completly unaware of why you are still reading, you just know that you are. Did you notice I misspelled a word in the last sentence. If you did notice, did you have the free will to choose that you noticed the typo, or did the thought just occur to you. Could you possible have chosen not to notice the typo? If you didn’t notice, could you possibly have chosen notice and think “that word is misspelled”. Maybe you noticed because you’re an aficionado at spelling, maybe you didn’t notice because you don’t proofread papers all day like I do. We don’t need to know the reason why did or did not notice the typo to know that you couldn’t have possibly chosen to notice or not notice. But what does all this have to do with drinking and substance abuse? The answer is EVERYTHING. In order to get to the next level, to really understand your drinking or substance abuse problem You have to understand that free will doesn’t exist, and cannot possibly exist. In order to do so, I have some books that I can reccomend (PM me). Or since I recognize that our attention spans are shorter than ever, and visual media is the ultimate way to maintain attention. I suggest watching Dr. Harris lecture on free will.
Here is a link.

(can't post links until I have 15 posts)

Search youtube Sam Harris free will.
That will get you started.

There are others too. This is not the only way to get there... the real part of the program that needs more development is HOW to get people to understand what they need to understand. Dr. Harris does a decent job explaining the concepts in general terms, but explaining them while focusing purely on alcoholism, I would argue would get alcoholics to understand the concepts more readily.


Once you have watched the video: Here is a supplemental essay that I’m working on that will be a part of the publication for this program. It deals more with the question WHY freewill doesn’t exist unlike the video which addresses HOW it cannot exist.

What I am talking about is the color red. We detect electromagnetic energy of approximately 680 nanometers and we perceive this energy as being red. We cannot choose to perceive this wavelength differently. We are bound by our physiology, and unless there is a disruption in the neurophysiology that allows us to perceive this electromagnetic energy differently, we will perceive 680 nm as red. However, our evolutionary ancestors weren't always able to perceive 680nm EM energy as the color red. We know this because some animals that diverged from a common ancestor cannot perceive the color red. Some animals are completely colorblind. Additionally, even some humans have physiology that does not allow them to differentiate wavelengths of light correctly. They cannot perceive a difference between wavelengths that are normally perceived as red vs ones that or normally perceived as green. Red-green colorblindness exists of course. My point is that the perception of the color red requires the appropriate physiology for the perception to occur-- and if that appropriate physiology isn't present or is disrupted by disease, then the perception cannot occur or is disrupted. I'm sure we all agree, but what does this have to do with free will?
Well free will is also a perception that takes place in our brains and is bound by our physiology. Without our brains, the perception of free will cannot exist. Unlike the perception of the color red, the development of the perception of free will is much older and more engrained into our psyche, and therefore more difficult to transcend. Why? because the perception of free will is one of the MOST advantageous perceptions that we have when it comes to survival. The perception of free will, the belief that you are the author of all of your decisions is tightly intertwined with the processes of learning and memory. It was absolutely necessary our early evolutionary ancestors (and I'm talking about ancestors with very basic neuronal circuits) to develop a "sense" of autonomy. Yet even has advanced as we are now. How many of us don't know why we do what we do sometimes? I digress, but we wouldn't be here if our ancestors did not develop the perception of free will. It was absolutely necessary for the survival of our ancestors, more so than the perception of the color red. So at what point did it become advantageous for our ancestors to have the perception of free will? If we start very early, I'm sure we all agree that biological molecules are bound by the laws of thermodynamics and don't have free will. A set of molecules do not have the freewill to not undergo a chemical reaction. Vital macromolecules like enzymes do not have the free will to disobey the laws of thermodynamics. As an example Dna Helicase does not have the freewill to not to catalyze the separation of two strands of DNA. This is a great thing, because if DNA helicase had freewill, you wouldn't be reading this right now. However, DNA helicase, does not have free will and therefore you are. Single celled organisms are systems composed of macromolecules that do not have freewill and are bound by the laws of thermodynamics as well. A bacteria does not have the freewill to not infect and replicate in physical environment that is compatible with it's cellular machinery. Simple multicellular organisms are groups of cells that work together in order to increase the survival of all the cells. Yet IF none of the cells in this organism have free will because their macromolecules do NOT have free will, how can an organism composed of 10 cells HAVE freewill. It can't because in order to have free will, we need consciousness. Consciousness is an emergent property of many many macromolecules arranged in a specific way in order to create neurons-and many many neurons connected in a specific way to allow for the emergent property of consciousness to exist- and within that consciousness there are many perceptions arise also as emergent properties of the physical system (the cells). Our brains are composed of billions of these cells, all of which are bound by the laws of thermodynamics and do not have free will. If we destroy the arrangements ( a gunshot to the head for example) and we no longer have consciousness then we can no longer have perceptions like the color red the perception of free will. Of course we all agree on that. Now If all of our parts are bound by the laws of thermodynamics and do not have free will, then how does the precise arrangement of parts give us free will? They don't, what they gives is the perception of free will as well as other perceptions like the perception of red for example. Remember things don't have to exist for us to perceive them as existing. The perception of the color red does not exist outside of the brain. Sure the EM energy exists but is only turned into a perception of the color red by the brain. Free will also does not exist outside of the brain because every other piece of matter is bound by the laws of physics and does not posses free will to choose to circumvent physical laws. Until we find an example of free will existing without consciousness it remains only a perception that emerges a result of consciousness--- A perception that evolved long ago in order to increase our ancestors chances of survival. A perception with a physical basis so old and so fundamental that it's difficult to transcend beyond the belief that we absolutely it. A perception that clearly can be altered ( I've been possessed by the devil) If any person admits that they "couldn't have done otherwise" they are admitting that freewill doesn't exist for them. Why is it some of the most disease brains will admit they were powerless over their impulses? Because our brains have parts that are highly conserved physical systems that are responsible for modifying consciousness and providing the illusion of freewill that is so strong the system needs to be really damaged for one to "feel" they don't have free will. (yes I do consider watching the sam harris video to physically damage our brains). We are not supposed to know that we don't have free will. Freewill is nothing more than a false perception that developed so long ago and was so vital for the progress of evolution that is extremely difficult to see it for what it really is, the an extremely convincing illusion.


So if you have accepted the fact that freewill is an illusion created by our brain for survival purposes, then it’s very easy to see why AA, which requires a belief in a higher power works for those that find it easy to believe in a higher power. Admitting you are powerless over alcohol is essentially giving up your belief in free will in particular circumstances and asking a higher power to modulate you. You can have the psychological benefits of this just by understanding that free will doesn’t exist in any context.

This post is long enough and many of you are wondering how to use the notion that freewill cannot possibly exist to your benefit and help you remain sober.

I’m ambivalent about what I will do with the final publication, because each person at this point needs to take days and try to figure out the answer for themselves. If I tell you the answer then it’s not as beneficial for your sobriety. Obviously the final publication has to have the answer in it, I haven’t figured out a way to make sure that people take the 3-5 days and witness their lives without free will. This is essential. So for the next part of the program, if you want the answer PM in 3-5 days and I can send it to you, but I will not give the next part of the book away until you have taken the time to generate your own answer first. You can also PM if you are still having trouble understanding some of the concepts presented here.
This sounds like a lot of work, but at that time your brain has undergone such a fundamental change, that you cannot become the person you were before. There is no going back. It's a permanent shift in brain function, but difficult to achieve. And what I'm really working on is how to make it easier to achieve for the masses of people.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:11 PM
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Welcome to the forum FreeRecovery!

I have listened to a podcast featuring Sam Harris and the free will thing was a lot to digest! This is interesting, I will have to go through and read it again to try and absorb this concept. Interesting stuff.

Oh yeah, you will have to get a few more posts in before you can post links and PM I believe.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:11 PM
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What the Sam Hill - I mean Sam Harris - is going on here?
I got as far as your needing 15 posts to put a link up.
I am so used to seeing misspelled words on this forum that I have become blind to them.

So what I gather is that when I decided to quit drinking a year ago, you have a name for what I did? Thank You.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:16 PM
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You could pack a whole library with books on the notion of free will. It is good to see that someone is trying something new, but your evidence against free will is a bit flimsy.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:18 PM
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if you want the answer PM in 3-5 days and I can send it to you, but I will not give the next part of the book away until you have taken the time to generate your own answer first. You can also PM if you are still having trouble understanding some of the concepts presented here.
I'd rather we conducted things in public myself. Should be a lively thread

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Old 02-23-2015, 03:21 PM
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My eyes.... my eyes!
Didn't get past the first paragraph either. Good luck with everything though
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I'd rather we conducted things in public myself. Should be a lively thread Welcome to SR Dee Moderator SR
Same here
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Justincredible View Post
Welcome to the forum FreeRecovery!

I have listened to a podcast featuring Sam Harris and the free will thing was a lot to digest! This is interesting, I will have to go through and read it again to try and absorb this concept. Interesting stuff.

Oh yeah, you will have to get a few more posts in before you can post links and PM I believe.
Oh ok, yes. Sam Harris has a lot of stuff to say. I'm pretty knowledgable about AA and NA as well as AVRT and Rational Recovery. I thought that some modern ideas on free will actually fit within some of these programs and make sense of some of the success some programs have had. Apparently I need 15 posts to post links, I wasn't aware of that until I tried to post.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LBrain View Post
What the Sam Hill - I mean Sam Harris - is going on here?
I got as far as your needing 15 posts to put a link up.
I am so used to seeing misspelled words on this forum that I have become blind to them.

So what I gather is that when I decided to quit drinking a year ago, you have a name for what I did? Thank You.
Basically yes. Congrats to you for quitting drinking! This is more for those who haven't been able to do so yet. I thought it was most to post it on the newcomers forum, where I thought I would find those still looking for help, but yes again, congrats on over a year sober!.

FR
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:50 PM
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Soo after reading all of that, it is almost midnight here, so that was a long read!!

I do understand the argument that the perception of free will could be an illusion, I have no idea whether that is true or not biologically, but considering most of my day is conducted on auto pilot there may be something to that, and then when I was drinking it was the same, good old auto pilot would take hold every evening as I would stop buy the liquor store, was I actively making a decision or simply being the prisoner of habit/routine?

Anyways, I have no idea on the answer to how the realisation, if it were to be true, links into recovery, unless it's linked into the mantra that I repeat over and over here on SR, I had to break that habit/auto pilot, I needed something outside of myself to challenge that pre determined mind frame of drinking I seemed to have every evening, a second opinion on things, short circuit my own thought processes!!

I would challenge though the idea that some people don't know why they can't stop, I think deep down I always knew, alcohol had become a problem and I had been caught up in an addiction that was starting to progress, the warning lights were flashing brightly, and I chose to ignore it for a long time.

Developing new habits/routines, almost forcing the issue away from my old auto pilot was the key to everything, I didn't use a higher power etc, it was making new decisions to create Sobriety, where did that strength come from? what do I call that? I've no idea, but that for everyone to some degree is what it all comes down to, doing something different, making Sobriety happen through action.

Very thought provoking post though nonetheless!! Welcome to SR!!
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OpioPhobe View Post
You could pack a whole library with books on the notion of free will. It is good to see that someone is trying something new, but your evidence against free will is a bit flimsy.
Certainly, I don't have any evidence for or against the notion of free will. I do have some philosophy about it, which is not detailed here. Also, as far as my recovery program goes, one of the key factors is to prime the alcoholic or drug abuser into discovering that free will is an illusion. If you want to debate otherwise, we could do that, but this post was just to introduce to those that are suffering that their perception on a subject that seems to most is not debatable. Is very debatable.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugar77 View Post
My eyes.... my eyes!
Didn't get past the first paragraph either. Good luck with everything though
My only concern is that a newcomer finds this thread in the future and scrolls for the answer, that isn't helpful to anyone. But I do think that publicly discussing the concepts here is beneficial.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:00 PM
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I couldn't read that wall of text. Try breaking it up into paragraphs to make it easier to read.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Purpleknight View Post
Soo after reading all of that, it is almost midnight here, so that was a long read!!

I do understand the argument that the perception of free will could be an illusion, I have no idea whether that is true or not biologically, but considering most of my day is conducted on auto pilot there may be something to that, and then when I was drinking it was the same, good old auto pilot would take hold every evening as I would stop buy the liquor store, was I actively making a decision or simply being the prisoner of habit/routine?

Anyways, I have no idea, I have no idea on the answer to how the realisation, if it were to be true, links into recovery, unless it's linked into the mantra that I repeat over and over here on SR, I had to break that habit/auto pilot, I needed something outside of myself to challenge that pre determined mind frame of drinking I seemed to have every evening, a second opinion on things, short circuit my own thought processes!!

I would challenge though the idea that some people don't know why they can't stop, I think deep down I always knew, alcohol had become a problem and I had been caught up in an addiction that was starting to progress, the warning lights were flashing.

Developing new habits/routines, almost forcing the issue away from my old auto pilot was the key to everything, I didn't use a higher power etc, it was making new decisions to create Sobriety, where did that strength come from? what do I call that? I've no idea, but that for everyone to some degree is what it all comes down to, doing something different, making Sobriety happen through action.

Very thought provoking post though nonetheless!! Welcome to SR!!
This is a really great post, thanks Purpleknight. I think the question we need to ask is what is that feeling of "autopilot?" How different is that autopilot from when you are piloting? Is there a difference? Or do you perceive a difference that is a perception that merely conserved for survival? I would totally agree that you breaking the cycle and developing new habits was key for your success. But since freewill cannot exist in any universe than we could possibly imagine (if don't understand why I'm saying this, you didn't watch the video) then there really is no difference from your autopilot and your perception that you are piloting. Your consciousness and perception of that is completely dependent on your brain. Now WHY were you able to stop? We don't know. You don't either. But did breaking the habit, coming on SR, etc help you to stop, absolutely. SR is helpful, but I bet you cannot tell me how you got here.

Because I googled for support
why? because I was drinking too much and I realized I needed help.
why did you think that? I felt sick that morning and I didn't want to feel sick
why? because I drank last night
why? because.... well I don't know I just decided to
why did you decide that? well Ive been doing it for a long time


the point is with every decision you make, knowing why you made the decision is not only difficult, it doesn't help much to know why. What helps is to know is that you couldn't have chosen NOT to be a part of this forum...
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by least View Post
I couldn't read that wall of text. Try breaking it up into paragraphs to make it easier to read.
I'm very sorry, least, I actually only took bits and pieces about what I've written about my program. I also admit that it's not quite yet digestible for most people. I didn't use paragraphs because I took parts from many parts of the program trying to give a very brief introduction to what I think will spark the minds of some people to investigate this topic on their own and maybe with some guidance from me and public discussion in the thread, which will lead to sobriety for some individuals.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:18 PM
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Alright, I have a lot of work to do, outside of this project (this isn't my occupation). I will be back tomorrow or within the next couple of days. At that time more people will have given input, I hope, and until then I wish all a safe journey until we meet again.

FR
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:18 PM
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Here goes nothing. I'm not particularly intelligent so bear with me.

I have the free will to drive to the corner store right now to buy a 36 back of Budweiser cans.
But I choose not too. Because I drank enough beer cans in my life to cover the distance to the moon and back.

So my choice is to live sober, and die this way. So when I meet my creator, I can stand proud and tell him that I made the choice, to live sober. The greatest gift he ever gave me is my freedom of choice.

Not sure where this fits, but it's what I believe in.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:21 PM
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How did I get here? I guess you are correct in the sense that there is a possibility that I could have always been destined to be here, I googled because I was desperate, I was desperate because my life was spiralling out of control, I was afraid of where alcohol was leading me and how much of a grasp it had created over my life.

But I then must digress from your theory, why did I drink? I believe I was addicted to alcohol? Why was I addicted to alcohol? Sometimes that can get lost sight of by those new to recovery!! Through habit/routine I had travelled too far down the rabbit hole to come back to moderate drinking, my makeup was changed forever, but what made me go too far?

That leads us to the mystery of the causes of alcoholism - genetics, childhood, environmental factors, early relationship with alcohol, life events, all of these or none of these could be the cause.

The reality is though some in this world can moderately drink and others can’t, for whatever reason, if it could be proven that my path in life could not have been diverted away from becoming an alcoholic by any variable, then I agree, and you would be correct, SR was always going to be in my future.

But what if the equation has too many variables that can influence the outcome? and there was an element of probability and chance in the outcome? I don’t know the answer, and no one will ever know, but if an element of chance was involved then SR was not destined to be a part of my life from the beginning.

The choice itself may not have been mine to make I guess, it was the situation I found myself in, but that situation was not guaranteed to exist, it may or may not have happened, based on the reasons that lead me to have an addiction!!

I guess that's where theory becomes speculation!!
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:28 PM
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Alright, I 'googled' Sam Harris. First thing I notice is that it looks an awful lot like Ben Stiller - I think that's the actor's name. A little help out there? I didn't get past a few highlighted items on wiki, but I gather he dismisses religion? I'm okay with that.
I didn't get far enough to cypher whether or not he is an L RON Hubbard type of guy.

I commend you on you noble effort to help so many in need FreeRecovery. Which brings me to a few questions.
Is it free,your program?
Is it registered or copyrighted in any way?
Is it published and if not, why not?
Why here on this site?
Is that you MesaMan?
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LBrain View Post
Is it free,your program?
Is it registered or copyrighted in any way?
Is it published and if not, why not?
Why here on this site?
My questions, too. I'd add:

- What are your credentials?
- Why ask for SRers to PM you, rather than share openly?
- Re: publication, noted by LBrain, is there any peer-reviewed data to support your theories?

Others have voiced a kinder response. My own is that this looks like junk science and not fitting for a site dedicated to providing support.
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