Serper2014

Sorry if it has been asked before, and yes it is long winded. I try not to start threads on topics that have been throughly covered. I'm not going to directly state the question. I'm just going to talk about the philosophy behind it. You take the information and tell me what you think because I need some guidance. Thanks SR!

A little bit of background to provide context.
I'm relatively young (25). I became a daily drinker in late 2011 and that continued every night (except for one 3 day break) until I was hospitalized for trying to taper too fast without medicine in late 2013. Towards the end I was doing 10-12 on weeknights and weekends were much more, but impossible to calculate an average. This totally destroyed my life, I became very sick, and the hospitalization scared me straight. (Somehow I still managed to get through those years of medschool don't ask me how) The medicine I received at the hospital got me out of the cycle of daily drinking and I haven't drank daily since. That would have been the perfect time to go to AA, but I didn't go. I moderated the frequency in which I drank throughout 2014. On 6/8/14 I gave an honest attempt at sobriety, I failed 10 days later when a friend handed me a drink. I probably averaged a drinking night once every 1-2 weeks on weekends usually. It worked for the most part, in that I never drank daily again, and I felt good most of the time. My life was soooo bad when I was drinking daily (drinking at work, drinking at school, drinking during exams, drinking in the mornings, just to keep myself from shaking and having anxiety attacks). I can confidently say for 100% sure that I'll never drink two days in a row again. I've aged a lot since I started drinking, and my hangovers are worse (or maybe they just feel worse) because they are relatively infrequent, because my drinking has been relatively infrequent. But I've also put my life in danger recently (I drove drunk, and to be fair I was also on many other substances, which is extremely uncommon for me), and that scared me into giving sobriety another try. So I've given two earnest attempts at sobriety. One was on 6/8/14 as I mentioned, and another is the streak that I'm currently on 1/23/15 (longest streak since 2011). I feel good, but not any better than I felt while moderating. The problem is that when I tried sobriety in on 6/8/14, I actually believed that I would never drink again. I don't believe it this time. I'm not drinking, but I just don't have that solid 100% belief that I won't ever drink again. (It's not like my belief in daily drinking, I know for a fact I will NEVER go back to that.) In many ways it feels like I'm just counting the days up until I drink again. If I really believed that I would never drink again, then why am I counting the days. I don't count days since I quit daily drinking, because I know I'll never daily drink again. (I do know the date, because I have the hospital bracelet). In many ways it feels like I'm a defensive player on a sports team. Running the clock down preventing the other team from scoring. Sure it's great every time I prevent the other team from scoring, but there is no victory, there is only the prevention of the other team scoring. I"m just running the clock down trying to stay ahead. Even if the other team never scores again, the end of the game is death. So I still lose. I'm reading these forums furiously, and I've read the entire book of AA, and I'm reading it again.. One thing that I constantly hear from people with years of sobriety is "If I have just one drink, I'm going to spiral back into the hell I was in." That works for them, but I moderated so long, 15 months of empirical evidence would suggest that if I get a six pack tonight, the only thing that is going to happen is I'm going to be hungover at work tomorrow. I'm very busy with school and I really cannot afford to not have a fully productive day, so that's been keeping me sober and it's been working so far. (Even look at the language I'm using, I can tell just by unconsciously choosing to write so far, that I don't believe this is forever) I keep reading passages out of the big book, and reading peoples posts on here, and talking to other alcoholics in real life, and repeating to myself. "If I drink again, I'll die" "I can never have another drink again" "I have disease and I cannot consume any alcohol or I will end up back in the hospital" but there's a part of me that knows, it's not really true. The last time I drank I shamefully admit that I drove drunk, but I also was on a bunch of other substances. I thought that was enough to scare me into sobreity, but I've never driven drunk/high before and it was definitely the combination of substances that led me to do so. Since that night, I decided that I'm NEVER taking those substances again. Easy. Done. 100% confident. I'll never do those drugs again. So even now when I thought I had a rock bottom (driving drunk) I know that If I get a 6 pack tonight, I'm not gonna hop in my car (I've never done it in the past, so why would I now?) I WANT to be sober, I just don't know how to psyche myself into believing that I'll never drink again. Help?

Hawks

Finding a solution at 25 is Better than ending up at 42 with a worse trail of wreckage behind you.

Trust me on this one.

What ever you say you won't do drunk, you will.

It's called "lowering the bar"

When I thought drinking everyday meant I was alcoholic, I had one day off a week.

When I couldn't maintain one day off, I swore I'd quit if I started drinking in the morning.

When I started drinking in the morning, I swore I'd quit when I started shaking (I never did, but 30% of us never will)

First time I spewed blood, I swore that was it...... It wasn't.

And on and on I went.

2 lost licence, 5 smashed cars.

If you don't identify with my story, my story is the one you can have if you have to keep drinking.

Your choice

LBrain

I must confess, I got about three sentences into your post and I started to hear Charlie Brown's teacher. So I skipped back and forth through it and here's what I came up with.

What do you want to do? What is your goal? Do you actually believe you can go on and drink occasionally? Are you afraid you will be missing out on the "fun life" if you stop drinking - for good?
Psyching yourself into believing something is a lot different than actually believing it.
It's basically trying to convince yourself of something you don't believe.

There lies the issue. You are still not convinced that not ever drinking again is something that you must do. There is still an idea that you can continue to drink - don't deny it. Unless you are 100% certain that drinking any alcohol at all is not in your best interest, you will never believe you need to abstain for a lifetime. Plain and simple.

Hope I covered some of what you asked. I apologize for not reading your post front to back. But I guess it's from going to so many meetings and hearing the same thing over and over again that when I read the first few sentences I already knew the rest.
Your question has already been asked numerous times.

A long time ago I dated a gal that was allergic to seafood. I didn't know it until we were out for dinner one night and the place cross contaminated food products. I thought she was going to die - good thing her mom knew what was going on and got her to the hospital immediately. This girl knows she can never eat seafood/shellfish products. She doesn't need to psyche herself up for it. It is a fact of life for her. Maybe this is not the same thing in your mind. But it is an example of actually knowing and believing something. She doesn't think that maybe next year she will be able to enjoy shrimp scampi. Not even in her mind.

Creekryder

I have experienced that feeling that I really don't want to quit forever syndrome. Each time I attempted to quit, I believe this was in the back of my mind. But this time I focused upon the concept that alcohol has never, in the slightest degree, ever really benefited me. All it did was continue the ADDICTION (not a disease, an Addiction). I didn't want the addiction, so in order to lose that, I remove the booze. But that is my decision, you must make your own. IMHO, I've you continue to drink, even in moderation, years down the line you'll be left with only a stronger addiction that no longer wishes to moderate.

I have been there.

ScottFromWI

You have asked this question and followed this line of reasoning before Serper. You cannot reason your way out of being an addict. You simply have to either accept it or keep drinking.

Thatdeliveryguy

Do you want to quit drink period? Moderate your drinking? Or get drunk everyday? You never outline your goal. " The last time I drank I shamefully admit that I drove drunk, but I also was on a bunch of other substances" it was the pills I tell you the pill. Never ever will I do this again.... I am not so sure where this type of thinking is going to land you. As a reader of your whole story, would you like me to tell you because you aren't going to drink everyday, take other substances, or drive on alcohol again you're going to be alright?

I see a pattern of self denial, escalating behavior, fear and regret followed by destructive behavior. However, without having a question, and a lot of meandering in your description here I would have a hard time advising anything other than figure out what you want to do. Set goals to accomplish what you want to do, and then execute the steps you need to accomplish said goal.

Good luck to you in what ever you decide is right for you and improves your well being.

awuh1

Ouch, strong words above. It can be hard to see clearly when your 25. Hope you don't have to be hurt too bad, incarcerated or far worse before you see where more of the same is leading. I guess allot of us see ourselves in you, albeit before we got it.

grocerease

Take a month off drinking, and everything . You will feel so good that you will want to continue sobriety. If anything it will give you some time with a clear head to do some thinking. Stay focused and fight with all your might. It won't be easy but I think you have it in you. Come to SR whenever you need to be reminded why you are doing this. Give it a chance! You will be rewarded.

Dee74

I faced these kinds of questions around your age and I decided I was smart enough resourceful enough and special enough to find a way to drink and avoid the bad stuff happening after wards.

15 years later, having lost everything I valued, and having nearly died from drinking I finally got it - I cannot drink and not have the bad stuff happening. I cannot drink and be the person I want to be.

I have no control over my drinking.

Mine was the hard way. You have the chance to do it the easy way Serper.

D

MelindaFlowers

I read this thread earlier and I've been pondering....

I see that you are trying to convince yourself that moderation might work for you. Even just looking at how much you wrote, alcohol is causing a lot of unrest in your mind. If typing that much and thinking that much about a six pack of beer ain't obsession, I don't know what is.

If a six pack a week worked for you then you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't think about it this much. You know you need to part ways with alcohol permanently.

On that note, I am glad you're here and I think that you should stop drinking. My God I wish I would've stopped at 25 and I'm only 32!

But I was pondering after reading this post was why a sixpack a week is so damaging. Number one you drove drunk. That's a big huge red flag. So you're not controlling it.

It sounds like a broken record but basically if I were to drink a six pack tonight it wouldn't kill me either. But it would start the process of letting alcohol back into my life and I would end up drinking much more than that. I can't explain it any better than that. It would eventually lead to dangerous and destructive behaviors.

Are used to roll my eyes when people would compare alcoholism to stay here with addiction. Has it gotten a little older, wiser, and sober, I see there's really not a difference. I think we all go through the face of dreaming about "well, maybe I'll just drink every now and then. Or maybe I'll just have a little heroin now and then." I have yet to see that really work for anybody and I've read a lot on the site and I've watched every episode of intervention. But most of all I know from my own experience.

Nonsensical

Indeed.

Serper, why do YOU think you are obsessing about alcohol?

MelindaFlowers

Good heavens my last paragraph up above was so full of typos it barely made sense to me! Freakin' Ipad voice recognition. I have corrected it to what it should have been. Please see below.

I used to roll my eyes when people would compare alcoholism to say heroin addiction. But as I get a little older, wiser, and sober, I see there's really not a difference. Sometimes the drug addictions seem so much more "serious" but it all comes down to addiction. Putting unhealthy things in your body that alter your mind, damage your health, and wreak havoc on your life. I'll venture to say that alcoholism kills more people than heroin anyways. Back to the point...

I think we all go through the phase of dreaming about "well, maybe I'll just drink every now and then." Or "maybe I'll just have a little heroin now and then."

I have yet to see that really work for anybody and I've read a lot on the site and I've watched every episode of intervention. But most of all I know from my own experience.

Winterkat

Serper, I'm brand new here, but all I'll say this: no matter what it is, forever seems insurmountable no matter the situation. A marathon seems insurmountable to someone doing 100 meters. The only way sometimes, you can get your brain to wrap it's head around anything is to break it down into little chunks.

If the forever freaks you out, then break it down into a chunk you CAN manage. A lot of people focus on a day. If you can stay sober today, that's all you need to do. Focus on tomorrow, tomorrow and ten years from now, ten years from now. Just wake up every morning being sober FOR THAT DAY. the rest can and will fall into place. It's a little goal (I mean, even the worst of us can usually go one little one day), and it doesn't feel so permanent and scary. The end result is the same.

Now, I'll qualify this by saying - it doesn't mean you don't have to come to that honest moment and realization with yourself that you never can drink like a normal person. Sooner or later, that heart to heart with yourself and your soul has to come. But, if you can't now, that's fine. You're 25 with a lot on your plate. You just have to get through being sober / not drinking today.

GracieLou

It has and it was, but that’s okay. I don’t think any of us have not asked this same question followed by our own story even if in our own minds and not typed out.

So you started drinking daily at 21? You have been hospitalized because you have such a tolerance for alcohol already that you needed to drink daily and you tried to detox from that and it sent you to the hospital.

Do you see anything wrong with this? Does the average person have this problem?

I will tell you the answer, No. The average person does not have this problem.

Normal social drinkers do not have to moderate.

I am 100% confident about something too but I will let you decide what that is.

Drink or don’t drink. The choice is yours. You know enough at this point to know you have a choice, many of us didn’t.

It seems you want to keep digging and no one can take that shovel away from you. You have to get to the bottom and decided to stop when you are ready. I pray you don’t have to many more consequences before you get there.

IOAA2

Hi.
It took me awhile to finally stopped playing games, became more honest with myself about my drinking and accepted the fact that I cannot drink alcohol in any amount in safety. It was pointed out to me that just because I stopped drinking it takes TIME to clear up and repair all the body damage alcohol caused.
It amazes me how much time and energy is wasted by alcoholics defending a right we want but lost by crossing the line into alcoholism.

Each of us are unique and like me have undisciplined moments when we can’t accept certain facts and continue some insane thinking process. It’s how we handle these insane moments that indicate the quality of our sobriety.

Reading the BB is mentioned which reminds me of when I mentioned in early sobriety that I read it the response was “NOW STUDY IT!” still good advice many years later.

BE WELL

CodeJob

'cunning, baffling and powerful'

if I follow your post, you are struggling with the overwhelming concept of not drinking again - ever. So you lare leaning towards the 'empirical' evidence that moderation will work for you. The idea of living in the present - just not taking a drink today - is too simple.

Well work out an evidence based personal study on living one day sober at a time. Take your smart phone calendar out, and plan out 5-7 days of what interventions you can fit in your school/work schedule to honor living one day at a time sober. Does exercise help? Tried meditation? Are you going to meetings in person or online? Daily time reading on SR? A daily reader when you wake up and or go to bed? Consider counseling as a resource to work out why you want to self destruct? Writing in a journal? Maybe consider a sponsor? There's all kinds of approaches to fill your free time and learn about what works for you.

Plan your time to work on sobriety one day at a time. Set a timeline for a data assessment. Maybe a 6 mo trial period with interim data assessments at 2 and 4 mo?

See if those days keep adding up if you work them focused on just one 24 hour period. Prove to your mind that you can plan slightly Ahead and have some life goals, but you honestly only have today. Test the theory.

I wish you well.

PurpleKnight

We change who we are, fitting a square peg into a round whole simply won't work, we just have to deal with the issue of not being compatible with alcohol and keep moving forward!!

For me keeping it simple in the beginning was important, I never thought about "ever again", I only focused on TODAY, another 24hrs and making it to bedtime, that was more manageable in my mind, which in early Sobriety was chaos!!

As time goes on then you can adjust your sights!!

tomsteve

I got hooked on crack back in the early 2000's. Then in one week I crashed my truck,got fired, and got evicted. I thought( high emphasis on thought) I had enough. I started attending NA.
But then I started feeling a little better. Mentioned at a meeting that if I just get back to work ill be doing good. I still remember hearing, " good luck with that".
I got back to work. I stopped gong to meetings. First paycheck I got a 40 ouncer.
In a week it was a 6 pack and a pint of Jim beam.
But I thought(again) that as long as I didn't smoke crack again I'd be alright.
And things got worse-much worse.I never smoked crack again but it wasn't necessary to make my existence worse.
Then I got into AA.
I ONLY stay sober one day. There's ONLY one day I don't want to drink and that's today.
My plan is to die sober, but I have no idea if that plan will change. But I'm not drinking TODAY.

Peter_819

Do you know why you want to drink? Maybe everyone here is unfairly biased against moderation, I doubt it, but it's possible. Seems from your posts that alcohol has been a destructive force in your life at times. Do you think your life will be worse without alcohol? I obviously don't have the answers to these questions, but I think they are the right questions you should ask yourself.

Elodie

I don't know, Serper. I'm 35 and 7 months sober today, and if I could go back in time ten years and quit drinking then, I'd do it in a heartbeat. People who drink like you said you drank don't just become moderate drinkers. Don't spend the next ten years rationalizing this. Good luck with your decision.