ArtFriend

Great point! Loneliness is endemic in this age group. And by the time you are 70/80 you have suffered many losses. Not just people, but loss of health, independence, financial. My mom used to say "The Golden Years it ain't" I like Bette Davis' quote: "Getting old isn't for sissies"

wpainterw

So am I a "dry drunk" if I like to drink lemonade? Or have become dependent on my dog? See Caroline Knapp's book "Pack of Two". It's interesting to see that the Puritan tradition continues in America. The Puritans said they came over here to have freedom in religion. It wasn't long until they became expert in telling others what to do, burning or hanging "witches", etc. If the Puritans had had AA groups, agnostics and atheists would have a limited life expectancy and would not have been given much time to work the steps. Just mount the scaffold. The hangman's noose cures all ills.

W.

Saskia

Hmmm, people! Just because we're retired doesn't mean we are of a different race or ethnic group or complete aliens! As we get older there can be changes in "shades" but many of the same things affect and concern us all. I personally find it offensive to feel I'm being written off as one of those old people who should be put out to pasture! When I did my IOP, we found few if any real differences between high school age drinkers and "older" drinkers and shared many good things in both directions. My generation often isn't as open about our feelings. Most people my age who I know are alcoholics feel so ashamed that they isolate because they are drinking. And yes, sometimes they drink because they are isolating but I think the reverse is more common.

SoberLeigh

Well said, Saskia. Amen.

Turtle82

This is so true. I'll share my journey here to SR. I knew, after trying, that I could not physically attend meetings. Drinking hasn't been an issue for years but serenity has been with some of what you've mentioned as they're new challenges. My sponsor, much older than I, died many years ago (sober of "natural" causes.) I decided to start looking for fellow alcoholics I could talk with on the internet. I found S.I.S. (Seniors in Sobriety) and sent them an email months ago and just got an answer last week! Just one line to tell me where the single, weekly, meeting was held but not in my area.. quite a driving distance.

While awaiting an answer, though, I found an internet group introducing myself as looking for other seniors dealing with similar issues to my own. I was, pretty promptly, told that they just "mix it up" so I posted in "General" and, just as promptly, got suggestions to attend meetings! So, then, tried to explain the difficulty with that to people who haven't experienced this stage of life, difficulty driving long distances, already depleted energy levels, etc, and it became obvious most thought I was just avoiding them. Ugh... didn't help and actually made me just withdraw for a while. But, I didn't give up.... and found SR and keep an eye out for fellow seniors. (Appreciate this thread so much!)

I'm experienced with computers and the internet but have friends even my own age and older who aren't. Many know how to log onto Facebook or get emails and that's about it. I have one, seven years older than myself, who doesn't even know how to text. I know about the isolation and issues unique to retirement and aging.. as said.. failing health, being a care giver to a spouse; the fears and exhaustion, loss of hope, isolation, dwindling ability to deal with emotions, adult children who seem to care less and the pain of that, fears about their future; independence; economic, etc. They're different than anything else the majority have experienced in life. When choosing a sponsor, one is told to look for someone you feel is a good match whether that's gender, education, economic, etc. and many choose based on age group or older. What is the elderly person to do? They can sponsor the younger because they've "been there" but who sponsors them? Age and/or length of sobriety doesn't mean they have it "knocked." They can still be thrown curves. Even speaking out about individual issues when viewed as "a wise old one" or having lengthy sobriety can become an issue in itself.

So, if nothing else, just having a sub-group devoted to the elderly would help us find each other here at SR and, possibly, take things to PM if it went no where else. As for SIS, well, in my area its pretty much a joke. What they should be doing is getting back on emails much, much, quicker and, perhaps, offering a list of phone numbers like the ones passed out at most AA meetings. The elderly sure know how to use a phone and someone they feel is going to "get them" on the other end instead no answer would be helpful. *sarcasm intended*

In summary, AA works because those who reach out think they're going to be understood. I know there are seniors/elderly out there right now who feel no one does. I would compare it to being a man or woman who's only option is to walk into a room filled only with the opposite gender. Sure there will be some things in common but a whole lot more that isn't and things that might even add to the discomfort they already had walking in.

Usual apologies for length. There's another "elderly" thing... we either find ourselves going on and on and on trying to get our thoughts arranged, crystallized, without a whole lot of success or we spit out one-liners we've come to depend on. Guess which type I am. LOL

Saskia

I'm not seeing a single cohesive "group" of senior characteristics. Take me, for example - I've worked with computers, intensively, since 1965. I was one of the bleeding edge adopters of PC technology. I'm still known to my friends and younger people, too, as "that gadget geek". I've had a national reputation in my field and can still out-program the younger ones any day. So please don't lump me into a category of seniors = non-tech-savvy people and/or seniors as people set in their ways, or seniors as used up, dried out shells. I've had plenty of knocks in life and have picked myself up and kept on truckin'.

Saskia

PS and my sponsor is in her early forties and it works. I believe that we can all learn from each other, regardless of age.

PurpleKnight

People in that age range give me loads of inspiration!!

I do agree though that the internet will probably have fewer people than a face to face option.

Eddiebuckle

Wpainter,

Have you considered talking to the local adult protective services organization? Here in NC, it is organized on a county basis. Alternatively, our local AA district has a toll free hotline for people to call for help; those in crisis or wanting to speak to a recovering alcoholic have their call forwarded to a volunteer through the district service. We direct callers to someone of the same sex, it would be possible to do this on an age basis too.

wpainterw

P.S. Lots of good comment and advice here. As I said, I appear to have no urge to drink. Don't even think about it. Like to sleep and my various blood pressure meds virtually guarantee that! (Have had two heart ops and one prostate shrinking op.). Got a dog. Best nurse I ever had that dog. Do lots of reading, TV. But miss the old times when folks liked to go to each other's houses and socialize. Now I'll bet that most of them will be holed up tonight looking at the Superbowl and maybe drinking too much. My top priorities now are not falling, not having a stroke or heart attack and being able to help others who need to avoid booze, etc.

W.

ArtFriend

Good for you! I admire your spirit. I am 57 (a senior according to AARP, but not to myself or my friends) and I too have worked with computers all of my adult life and still do. I can put RAM in my PC, change out the motherboard and install a new hard drive. I can create websites and develop user documentation. But I think many people my age and older are not as tech savvy. I taught my mom how to Skype, Facebook and email when she was in her 70s and 80s. But I was her dedicated trainer. Many people don't have that in their later years. I will keep up with technology as long as I have a brain.

As far as a forum for seniors, anyone can create a forum. The software is free. Maybe someone on here could create a forum strictly for seniors?

Saskia

I think that a significant number of seniors over 70 are afraid of technology. That is also changing. I did some volunteer work recently to help seniors who had questions about using their fruity tablets. Most were not interested in the tablets as an end in themselves but rather as a tool to accomplish what they want. These were very well-educated seniors but it is an example of something I've noticed for years. If you want people to use tech tools, the two major ingredients are 1) make sure they see the benefits for their own situation in very concrete terms - these are people who don't like to waste time. And 2) provide them with the opportunities to get one-on-one, f2f help without jargon and in a way that relates to their goals. A perfect example is FaceTime or Skype. If grandkids do not live within easy distance, this is a priceless opportunity for them to get the benefit of technology. In our help sessions, we asked them to come prepared with a specific question or problem.

Saskia

A wonderful way to help non-tech savvy people of any age it to pair them up f2f with high school students. It can be a great learning experience for both groups :-)

I suspect that to many non-tech people, going on-line for a forum is just too foreign to their world view. I agree that setting up a forum is workable but not sure you'll get those who need it. Plus there is the work of moderating it, preventing spam, rudeness, etc. it could become a magnet for people trying to scam seniors. I know that my discrimination between friend and foe on the Internet is not as good as it once was. Luckily I had previously developed good habits and they are now on auto-pilot. Many have not.

Turtle82

Not to turn this into a techie talk thread but I"ve owned my own groups, moderated others and had websites which I had to learn to set up due to my profession but I still maintain that's not the norm for a 71 year-old of today. Even 10 years ago dealing with ladies on my groups then in their 50s most didn't want to learn software nor how to care for their own computers let alone learn the language so they could at least communicate well enough to get help.

That being said, I still see where the net could be of value. Those who are on the net could, if they chose to give up some degree of anonymity, network for more local area resources. I've been "out there" looking for seniors/elderly resources. Its a pretty lonely place. And also still see where those who do make it to the net and groups like this one could benefit from their own sub-forum. Just one example... mortality or living wills in complicated situations. How often do we come across or develop skills required helping someone maintain serenity when dealing with that themselves or in their spouse. How many times are some of us reluctant to bring the subject up even for multiple reasons? Sure, its gonna happen to everyone but some don't like to think about it yet while others have to. Its not the norm for younger people but is for us.

No, there's not a one-shoe-fits-all for seniors/elderly but to deny that it is as unique as groups of teens for instance... well, I don't get that... maybe its an aversion to or fear of being labeled geriatric?

Dee74

My parents are in their early 70s and, while proficient at things like motor car repair and manual bookkeeping (for example), they've never come to grips with 'computers'.

It's utterly alien to them - and I think it always will be.

D

Saskia

I agree that there are differences in age groups but I believe that there aren't clearly defined boundaries. There is lots of crossover and edge-bleed. I hardly have "an aversion to or fear of being labelled geriatric" - I live in a retirement community

blueyes618

This is an interesting thread because I have found that near me, the AA groups I've attended the majority of people are 50+, a handful of people in their 40s, some in their later 30s, and then me (29). I am by far the youngest one in my AA group, and by no means am discriminating against the older population of AA goers, but like them I find it really hard to relate. I agree that their should be groups for certain age groups, it makes recovery easier.

BarbieKen

Great thread ...but I only have a minute right now. I just wanted to say that in the 2 years I've been sober I've become friends with a man who is now 86. My own Dad is 80 ....both do not seem elderly to me. Body may be slower, but the brain is going! I've been my friend C.'s ride & back to our meeting. Other people get other days....never ever too old to make a change for the better. We just need our friends.
Bobbi

Saskia

I can see that. I would prefer to see that in addition to regular threads. I personally feel that my experience here is richest when there are people of different ages and people from different countries and different viewpoints and whatever other differences there are. For me, I learn more from the variety than from a group that is stratified by age. That said, I can see where the combination of types of threads could be helpful and I'm sure not everyone sees it like I do!

wpainterw

Great Discussion! Thanks so much. Myself, I like to tell it like it is. Not the euphemism "senior citizen", not "disadvantaged" or "challenged". Glad to be "old" and a little bit "crippled" Sometimes a bit "feeble" because of my "ticker". I'm the friendly "geezer"! Hello! What kind of "dawg" you got?
Sure, folks don't want to talk about death. But last year I admit that I felt about an hour away from that after my heart valve operation last year. As the 18th Century Dr. Samuel Johnson used to say, that "concentrates [the] mind wonderfully". Are there atheists in foxholes? Wouldn't know cause I've never been in a foxhole but I did feel the shadow of the Grim Reaper. I wonder whether I'll freak out again when he returns. So I think a bit about what comes next. Is there just- nothing? Like before I was born? Hardly unpleasant. I can't recall suffering before I was born. Or something else, like the tunnel with light at the end, meeting my lost relatives, friends, dogs. Yes, I'd particularly like to meet my dogs. I think of them waiting for me. Like in a sunny field, eyeballing the rabbits and birds but not hunting them. Well maybe chasing them a bit.
So I made some stuff for those I'll leave behind. Memoirs, poems, quotations, favorite Bible passages. A footprint, like the soldiers used to scrawl on walls in WW2: "Kilroy Was Here!"

W.