It's not a slip. It's a choice.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
I wonder if what is nosing through here is there difference in approaches...
Language is more important to me because of the path I have chosen to follow, there is a lot of discussion about ownership of choices on the secular forum. I know that when I begin to distance myself from responsibility for my actions I am giving the AV control. I see my cognitive brain as deliberate and in control in both my positive and negative choices.
I had a real problem with a therapist when I first got sober. No matter what issue I brought up she would reframe it in the context of being an alcoholic. "Well you know all alcoholics are restless, etc.." She boxed me in and I felt encapsulated by that shroud.
I knew that something was troubling me way more than new sobriety. It was being told what I was and there were very specific terms she kept saddling me with. Because of her use of language I felt marginalized and helpless.
Yeah, it s**ks that I am an alcoholic. But I am also a mother, a friend, a skier, a successful career woman, a gardener, a cat rescuer….etc. I feel strongly that language is powerful and can be used to diminish or empower, and the fact that I felt agitated and resistant when she was carpet bombing me with assumptions about who I am reminded me that the scrappy Boston girl was still buried in there.
In the last 10 years I had a big wake up call in respect to who I am and what I respond to. I was a figure skater when I was younger but had to quit because we couldn't afford it. So I took it back up as an adult. The first coach I hired was passive, and didn't expect much from me, assumed that because I was an adult I wasn't going to do much jumping etc. It didn't work out.
A few years later I took an adult class and the woman who was teaching took one look at me and said "you are going to kill yourself". I hired her. For the next 5 years she worked with me and she treated me exactly like she treated any other student. She expected me to show up, she was tough, I was in harnesses hanging from the ceiling, I was doing sit-ups and off ice dancing….I rose to the challenge. I learned, I respond better to higher expectations and an assumption of personal capability. When someone doesn't expect much from me I tend to underperform. I know I have a different reaction to the word slip versus choice, but I understand my reaction is built on an existing set of personal variables.
However, someone else may have thrived under more passive tutelage…it really came down to finding what approach motivated me.
There is something really respectful in assuming people are capable of a lot. And I think dignity is something that newly sober alcoholics are usually in short supply of. I think often language is used to indicate our expectations.
I think what is key is tapping into who you are and what sort of signals you best respond to. Some people thrive under gentler conditions, others love a challenge and if you tell them they can't they will see you and raise you, some people want to travel a path that they feel is safe, others will fly by the seat of their pants…..
What I might find a stimulating provocation another might find a devastating diminishment. I think the one universal sentiment that most people find uplifting is respect and lack of judgement. And I think this thread AO helps many perhaps pay attention to which type of verbal cues they find most invigorating. Because it is that process that assures each one of us that the sobriety that we arrive at is our own. Breaking down how we process internal and external verbal cues can be extraordinarily helpful in early sobriety.
Language is more important to me because of the path I have chosen to follow, there is a lot of discussion about ownership of choices on the secular forum. I know that when I begin to distance myself from responsibility for my actions I am giving the AV control. I see my cognitive brain as deliberate and in control in both my positive and negative choices.
I had a real problem with a therapist when I first got sober. No matter what issue I brought up she would reframe it in the context of being an alcoholic. "Well you know all alcoholics are restless, etc.." She boxed me in and I felt encapsulated by that shroud.
I knew that something was troubling me way more than new sobriety. It was being told what I was and there were very specific terms she kept saddling me with. Because of her use of language I felt marginalized and helpless.
Yeah, it s**ks that I am an alcoholic. But I am also a mother, a friend, a skier, a successful career woman, a gardener, a cat rescuer….etc. I feel strongly that language is powerful and can be used to diminish or empower, and the fact that I felt agitated and resistant when she was carpet bombing me with assumptions about who I am reminded me that the scrappy Boston girl was still buried in there.
In the last 10 years I had a big wake up call in respect to who I am and what I respond to. I was a figure skater when I was younger but had to quit because we couldn't afford it. So I took it back up as an adult. The first coach I hired was passive, and didn't expect much from me, assumed that because I was an adult I wasn't going to do much jumping etc. It didn't work out.
A few years later I took an adult class and the woman who was teaching took one look at me and said "you are going to kill yourself". I hired her. For the next 5 years she worked with me and she treated me exactly like she treated any other student. She expected me to show up, she was tough, I was in harnesses hanging from the ceiling, I was doing sit-ups and off ice dancing….I rose to the challenge. I learned, I respond better to higher expectations and an assumption of personal capability. When someone doesn't expect much from me I tend to underperform. I know I have a different reaction to the word slip versus choice, but I understand my reaction is built on an existing set of personal variables.
However, someone else may have thrived under more passive tutelage…it really came down to finding what approach motivated me.
There is something really respectful in assuming people are capable of a lot. And I think dignity is something that newly sober alcoholics are usually in short supply of. I think often language is used to indicate our expectations.
I think what is key is tapping into who you are and what sort of signals you best respond to. Some people thrive under gentler conditions, others love a challenge and if you tell them they can't they will see you and raise you, some people want to travel a path that they feel is safe, others will fly by the seat of their pants…..
What I might find a stimulating provocation another might find a devastating diminishment. I think the one universal sentiment that most people find uplifting is respect and lack of judgement. And I think this thread AO helps many perhaps pay attention to which type of verbal cues they find most invigorating. Because it is that process that assures each one of us that the sobriety that we arrive at is our own. Breaking down how we process internal and external verbal cues can be extraordinarily helpful in early sobriety.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
On the topic of slipping etc -- I personally relate best with what fini said above. And some others earlier on this thread about relapsing subjectively perceived as failure
haennie,
if it were me, if i drank again, i'd call it relapse and failure. that's what it would be for me. so maybe that makes me hypocritical when i would simply describe the actions when it's someone else?
dunno.
being what some others might call severe with myself or too harsh with myself is being honest, to me. it's the thing that got me to quit drinking and stay that way. my truth in harsh, ugly terms.
i'd consider it a failure because it would show me that somewhere something in my sober path hadn't "worked", so that a return to drinking or a drink was possible.
haennie,
if it were me, if i drank again, i'd call it relapse and failure. that's what it would be for me. so maybe that makes me hypocritical when i would simply describe the actions when it's someone else?
dunno.
being what some others might call severe with myself or too harsh with myself is being honest, to me. it's the thing that got me to quit drinking and stay that way. my truth in harsh, ugly terms.
i'd consider it a failure because it would show me that somewhere something in my sober path hadn't "worked", so that a return to drinking or a drink was possible.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
Totally agree Jaynie, language and different approaches are important to recognise, in the same way there are different methods to achieve Sobriety, people also need different things and have different needs.
Some language to one person may be motivational, but to others it can be discouraging, we're all programmed differently, as human beings there can be variations in what we respond to.
I guess from a support Forum point of view we have to meet people were they are at, the person who posts and is clearly already beating themselves up and about to throw in the towel, that person may respond better to some gentle encouragement and a truck load of gentle support because they are on a fine line, compared to the person who posts confidently that they drank and there doesn't seem to be any indication of changing anything, or this might be their 10th Day 1 this month, then there would be no harm in laying things out a bit more assertively.
As mentioned the important thing is people re committing back to Sobriety, a willingness to change and an acceptance of the reality are also healthy perspectives to have!!
Some language to one person may be motivational, but to others it can be discouraging, we're all programmed differently, as human beings there can be variations in what we respond to.
I guess from a support Forum point of view we have to meet people were they are at, the person who posts and is clearly already beating themselves up and about to throw in the towel, that person may respond better to some gentle encouragement and a truck load of gentle support because they are on a fine line, compared to the person who posts confidently that they drank and there doesn't seem to be any indication of changing anything, or this might be their 10th Day 1 this month, then there would be no harm in laying things out a bit more assertively.
As mentioned the important thing is people re committing back to Sobriety, a willingness to change and an acceptance of the reality are also healthy perspectives to have!!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 28,801
The bottom line is we as alcoholics want to win this race. Whether we're the turtle or hare, we want to cross the finish line. I being the turtle, fought perhaps harder than the hare to get there. Maybe that makes me more ready to hang on to my ribbon. You can have a room full. But the hard fought one is still the treasure. Each day we run the race. I hope to be a winner from now on. Slow and steady wins the race.
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
Spot on Jaynie.
There was a time, many years ago, when I was first coming to terms with REALLY being an alcoholic, that the terminology applied to my drinking would have sought to break it to me gently, if you will.
This thread was more of a me, outing myself, to myself.
It took me the better part of a decade to admit that.
I recall in the rooms of AA. I would hear over and over, about people "not making it back."
I remember thinking - good god what drama queens. No one could possibly actually DIE from alcohol when you are not drinking 24/7. Right ? Right ???.
Now, I'm that girl. The one that doesn't have another recovery in her.
Reality check ?
Check.
There was a time, many years ago, when I was first coming to terms with REALLY being an alcoholic, that the terminology applied to my drinking would have sought to break it to me gently, if you will.
This thread was more of a me, outing myself, to myself.
It took me the better part of a decade to admit that.
I recall in the rooms of AA. I would hear over and over, about people "not making it back."
I remember thinking - good god what drama queens. No one could possibly actually DIE from alcohol when you are not drinking 24/7. Right ? Right ???.
Now, I'm that girl. The one that doesn't have another recovery in her.
Reality check ?
Check.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
it occurred to me that we got away from the OP, which was about slip vs choice, and we moved to the use of language of how to describe slip vs relapse vs action, when the original post was about something quite different.
about whether it is "choice" or not. or partly
about whether it is "choice" or not. or partly
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 28,801
Just some word for thought................
We have free will, but our free will lies in our choice of thoughts. “All day long the thoughts that occupy your mind, your Secret Place, as Jesus calls it, are moulding your destiny for good or evil; in fact, the truth is that the whole of our life’s experience is but the outer expression of inner thought. Now we can choose the sort of thoughts that we entertain. It will be a little difficult to break a bad habit of thought, but it can be done. We can choose how we shall think—in point of fact, we always do choose—and therefore our lives are just the result of the kind of thoughts we have”
― Emmet Fox
We have free will, but our free will lies in our choice of thoughts. “All day long the thoughts that occupy your mind, your Secret Place, as Jesus calls it, are moulding your destiny for good or evil; in fact, the truth is that the whole of our life’s experience is but the outer expression of inner thought. Now we can choose the sort of thoughts that we entertain. It will be a little difficult to break a bad habit of thought, but it can be done. We can choose how we shall think—in point of fact, we always do choose—and therefore our lives are just the result of the kind of thoughts we have”
― Emmet Fox
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
I have been realizing, with this go round of sobriety, that I am not only responsible to myself. My choice to drink or not drink, affects all of my relationships.
Especially with my daughter. Especially with her.
While I was drinking in relapse, our relationship was the most strained it had ever been. She looked at me with utter disgust as I would chug glass after glass of wine. It was as if with every sip, I watched our future together go from utter unbridled potential to sputtering just to stay alive. In sobriety, when she looks at me choose water over wine, her eyes literally sparkle. She will have the best me for the day. And the next day.
I have a responsibility to her. To her future children. The grandchildren that deserve to know me and be positively influenced by me and all the lessons I have to offer them from my journey through life. They deserve to get the best of me. And I deserve every delicious moment of them.
I have a responsibility to my fellow sufferers of alcoholism. Those who are thinking about toying around with moderation. I owe them the explanation of my experience. To possibly dissuade another from picking up again. I owe this to them. Learn from me.
I have a responsibility to my mother. Whose deserves to see her daughter, a fighter through and through, fight for her life like her other daughter couldn't. The mother/daughter relationship I have always dreamed of, is happening now. We are closer then we have ever been, as she has watched me battle to both save myself and try (in vain, thank God) to self destruct.
Yes. My choice to drink or not, is not without effect.
To a myriad of people.
Even ones I haven't met yet...
Especially with my daughter. Especially with her.
While I was drinking in relapse, our relationship was the most strained it had ever been. She looked at me with utter disgust as I would chug glass after glass of wine. It was as if with every sip, I watched our future together go from utter unbridled potential to sputtering just to stay alive. In sobriety, when she looks at me choose water over wine, her eyes literally sparkle. She will have the best me for the day. And the next day.
I have a responsibility to her. To her future children. The grandchildren that deserve to know me and be positively influenced by me and all the lessons I have to offer them from my journey through life. They deserve to get the best of me. And I deserve every delicious moment of them.
I have a responsibility to my fellow sufferers of alcoholism. Those who are thinking about toying around with moderation. I owe them the explanation of my experience. To possibly dissuade another from picking up again. I owe this to them. Learn from me.
I have a responsibility to my mother. Whose deserves to see her daughter, a fighter through and through, fight for her life like her other daughter couldn't. The mother/daughter relationship I have always dreamed of, is happening now. We are closer then we have ever been, as she has watched me battle to both save myself and try (in vain, thank God) to self destruct.
Yes. My choice to drink or not, is not without effect.
To a myriad of people.
Even ones I haven't met yet...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,308
Thanks AO. I really am grateful for this thread today, especially this last part on responsibility. I had a slip or relapse this week, one of those two things, and have felt scared and wobbly ever since, as well as powerless. IE, I want to drink and I can't do it, can't control it. I love the thought that I have a responsibility not to drink, in order to be the best me, at home, at work, in life.
I've been feeling sad, down, and I like that I can view it this way. Helps me rise to the challenge. It's so true, I can't drink and be the best me. I choose the latter.
Love!
I've been feeling sad, down, and I like that I can view it this way. Helps me rise to the challenge. It's so true, I can't drink and be the best me. I choose the latter.
Love!
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