Bar fail lol
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by JoeCree 
Ive never understood the entire "tipping" tradition for any sort of service. I used to be a bartender in Sweden and nobody tipped there, and guess what I still gave amazing service to anyone and everyone and you know why? Because I was paid very well by the establishment.
I was a bartender in NYC when I first got sober, just over thirty years ago. My weekly paycheck was eighteen bucks for five ten-hour shifts. Not a lot of money, even back then.
The worst tippers were usually those who drank enough to get drunk, and the known "problem drinkers." They counted every penny, every buyback, and often looked for or created reasons not to leave a tip. They were fond of lecturing me on why they shouldn't be expected to leave a tip. They also frequently left without settling their tabs, either claiming that they didn't have the cash or running a deck of credit cards that were rejected. ATMS were not at all ubiquitous back then. "I really wanted to leave you a nice tip, but I don't have anymore money. I'll take care of you the next time."
Don't take it out on your server (not you personally) because you don't like the way the owners pay them. Many of them are unable to find better jobs, are supporting families, or are working hard to get themselves to a better place.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 518
Yeah bars should be thankful for DDs.. Around my area here in Toronto anyone who is DD gets free NA beverages all night. Infact i find the barservers are extra nuce to the sober people.. We're Probably a lot nicer 
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
I was a bartender for a while. In a Japanese sushi place. It was more of a restaurant with a connected bar. I had to use the little black book of recipes, lol. I couldn't memorize the recipes for some reason. They all ran together in my head 
The waitresses and I snuck drinks all night. There was a very rude, insulting Korean lady cashier who we all loathed. It ended up being a very bad scene... going to parties after work with the sushi chefs, drugs, arrests for public intox... we were all young and were pardoned by the judge. I probably should have been charged.
I got sober for a year after that mess. Wish I'd stayed sober though It would be nine more years before I finally quit.
The waitresses and I snuck drinks all night. There was a very rude, insulting Korean lady cashier who we all loathed. It ended up being a very bad scene... going to parties after work with the sushi chefs, drugs, arrests for public intox... we were all young and were pardoned by the judge. I probably should have been charged.
I got sober for a year after that mess. Wish I'd stayed sober though
It would be nine more years before I finally quit.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 518
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
In many cases, it doesn't work that way here.
Why should the patron "pay" for service?? think about it. I know the defacto response is the pay is low, that is what the problem is.
Let me ask u, if u were paid 50$ per hour to serve in a high end restaurant where nobody tipped.. Would u not give good service?.. The reality is that the patron basically pays this on a 200$ tab anyways. My point is id rather the bill be all in and $250 then the patron paying/tipping the server. Then the restaurant takes full responsibilty for high end service, not the patron.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by JoeCree
endgame, i understand.. I am from here and im a 20% tipper.. I was travelling abroad when i worked in sweden for year. The pounts u bring up are exactly what i just cant understand about the tipping ideology here in NA.
Why should the patron "pay" for service?? think about it. I know the defacto response is the pay is low, that is what the problem is.
Let me ask u, if u were paid 50$ per hour to serve in a high end restaurant where nobody tipped.. Would u not give good service?.. The reality is that the patron basically pays this on a 200$ tab anyways. My point is id rather the bill be all in and $250 then the patron paying/tipping the server. Then the restaurant takes full responsibilty for high end service, not the patron.
Why should the patron "pay" for service?? think about it. I know the defacto response is the pay is low, that is what the problem is.
Let me ask u, if u were paid 50$ per hour to serve in a high end restaurant where nobody tipped.. Would u not give good service?.. The reality is that the patron basically pays this on a 200$ tab anyways. My point is id rather the bill be all in and $250 then the patron paying/tipping the server. Then the restaurant takes full responsibilty for high end service, not the patron.
Back in the 1980s, a friend of mine was a coat checker in a very expensive Italian place. She brought home about a hundred and fifty bucks each night, a lot of money back then. All the servers were from Italy, where they were trained, and brought home a few thousand bucks in cash each week. They only worked during the peak season, returning to their villas in Italy in the off-season. It was a regular haunt for celebrities, and the tips were outrageous.
On the one hand, yes, the restaurant takes responsibility for good service if there is no gratuity, yet the patron has the choice to assess the service that he or she received by the gratuity they leave. There were and are many more mid-level restaurants in the city than high-end eateries that simply could not survive were they to charge a higher price for food and drink while paying their servers a premium in lieu of tips. New Yorkers are used to tipping, and they wouldn't pay fifteen bucks for a burger and fries instead of leaving a tip for a ten-dollar burger of roughly equal quality. The food-service economy doesn't work that way, the main reason why most restaurants don't offer a reasonable salary or other perks such as health insurance. It just doesn't work.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 251
When I decided to quit I knew that I would have to be comfortable in bars my monthly meetings are held in a bar. If I couldn't handle that I wouldn't succeed. If you saw me a month ago I was drinking odouls like it was going out of style since I've been tapering off it and discovering other drinks yet I still enjoy those and am totally comfortable with them. So, I don't mind bars and feel no pressure. Most bars have non alcoholic options whether beer, water or soda. Since I only have one or two, I mean I'm not drinking to get drunk anymore so you don't drink as much (imagine that lol) generally will leave a $5 on the bar for each drink and if it's just water I'll leave a $5 when I leave... As far as tipping in restaurants I try to do 20% for decent good service I don't expect them to bend over backwards however if I have bad service I will stiff them however it's got to be absolutely horrible. Not food quality not slow service I mean absolutely inattentive or rude waiter or waitress. So I have stiffed a server once in the last ten years most are decent to excellent at their jobs and it's not their fault they get paid crap due to a loophole in the minimum wage..... Lol I went way off there so I'll shut up now
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 518
ENDGAME: ....the main reason why most restaurants don't offer a reasonable salary or other perks such as health insurance This is the only reason it does not work (especially in the USA). I totally understand what you are saying, and agree that it cannot change in the US because of the salary and health issues/insurance everything becomes as a result of salary based employees. But this is the result of that system.
At the end of the day a customer has a choice to go buy a burger for $10 in NYC. He will have to pay tax and tip on that burger (regardless) roughly equaling = $14. So the cost of the burger to the patron no mater what is: $14 (not $10). My point is let's say there are 3 different burger joints within a 1 block radius all offering the same price burger of $14.00 (no tax, no tip). Since most people "try" eateries out the patron will assess which restaurant has the best service,atmosphere, food quality, etc... and eventually will go the place they want/like the most.
The place they choose, no doubt has done due-diligence. They probably pay (a bit) more for servers, a (bit more) for fresher food, etc... and their NET gain (or margin) is probably less than their competition, BUT - they do way more volume and as a result are a more profitable restaurant. This is basic business. Within time they will probably have to raise the salaries of their servers to satisfy their patrons resulting in a $15.00 burger,but the loyal patron says the extra $1.00 is worth it. That, in my opinion is how a Server should make money. Exactly how it works in Sweden.
in 1998 I was paid $53.00/hour to tend bar, serve food, etc... I never expected a tip and made a ton of money. But, I also paid high taxes, etc... because health care was Nationalized.
I believe the tax structure for small businesses, cash businesses, and server salaries etc... in the US (and Canada to an extent) are so backwards that it is irreparable.
At the end of the day a customer has a choice to go buy a burger for $10 in NYC. He will have to pay tax and tip on that burger (regardless) roughly equaling = $14. So the cost of the burger to the patron no mater what is: $14 (not $10). My point is let's say there are 3 different burger joints within a 1 block radius all offering the same price burger of $14.00 (no tax, no tip). Since most people "try" eateries out the patron will assess which restaurant has the best service,atmosphere, food quality, etc... and eventually will go the place they want/like the most.
The place they choose, no doubt has done due-diligence. They probably pay (a bit) more for servers, a (bit more) for fresher food, etc... and their NET gain (or margin) is probably less than their competition, BUT - they do way more volume and as a result are a more profitable restaurant. This is basic business. Within time they will probably have to raise the salaries of their servers to satisfy their patrons resulting in a $15.00 burger,but the loyal patron says the extra $1.00 is worth it. That, in my opinion is how a Server should make money. Exactly how it works in Sweden.
in 1998 I was paid $53.00/hour to tend bar, serve food, etc... I never expected a tip and made a ton of money. But, I also paid high taxes, etc... because health care was Nationalized.
I believe the tax structure for small businesses, cash businesses, and server salaries etc... in the US (and Canada to an extent) are so backwards that it is irreparable.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 518
Originally Posted by zenchaser
When I was 18 I got a job in a bar and a guy ordered a caesar and I brought him a salad!!! True story. Hahahaha!
A man says, " Jag er Meister" and since I was on verbs in my Swedish class; Jag=I, er=am Meister= Master? I thought. didn't occur to me that he wanted a Jägermeister.. I must have looked like the weirdest bartender ever.
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