Notices

A Different Perspective

Old 01-21-2015, 11:28 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
EndGame
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
A Different Perspective

I haven't taken a position on this article. (I do, after all, value my life. ) It's a bit sensationalistic (the title itself is like something out of a trashy rag), and the author has a stake in persuading the reading public to at least reflect on his position. After all, he's selling a book.

Besides, it's just too easy to take apart something like this on the grounds that it's "unscientific," a reframing of older ideas, or that it doesn't deal enough with other factors involved in addictions. So I did what the author suggested and simply "absorbed the story." His emphasis on support rather than banishing or otherwise punishing the addict is at least compelling.

There is so much focus on alcohol and drugs, the ordeal of getting clean and sober, the stigma of addiction, the dangers of addiction, and the genesis of addiction that we sometimes lose sight of the social and interpersonal contributions that influence and sustain addictions. I've read a lot about social isolation, social anxiety, social phobia, extreme introversion and loneliness in connection with addictions, and in relentlessly declining help when we need it most, before and after recovery. Is all of that simply the result of our addictive behaviors?

My take-away from the article is the (for me) indispensable power of support in recovery. I could not have gotten sober without it.

The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You ThinkÂ*|Â*Johann Hari
EndGameNYC is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 12:10 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
PurpleKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
Yeap that's what I took out of it too!!

Support for me broke the cycle, the pattern and routine of life that I had been following for years, also I lived on my own, so I went to work, stopped by the liquor store on the way home, sat on my own in the evenings drinking, isolation did me no favours.

Connecting with others and finally admitting there was a problem and trying to absorb all the help and advice that others shared from their own experience was the best thing I could have ever done!!
PurpleKnight is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 12:46 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Sober Soldier
 
mns1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,911
The part that hit home for me was when he talks about the system in Portugal that helped addicts reconnect with their feelings as well as other people. I got help in learning to recognize my emotions and channel them, as opposed to suppressing them. That has been a huge help for me.

I was also caught by the little premonition he threw in there of the direction society is going in with the advancement of technology. This is a subject I take a lot of personal interest in and I find it kind of scary.

Nice post EndGame thanks
mns1 is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 12:59 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
Lotsa good stuff there. I'm only recently getting out of the house and connecting cuz just typing here, while very helpful, doesn't give me any practice with social cues and I'm a bit rusty. I won't leave SR as the same love is here as there--they just have gestures to go with the words and sometimes that is truer if you know what I mean. "Any which way we can" is my motto and maybe I'll add "bookmark it--you might need it". So I have. Thanks a lot NY.
anattaboy is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 01:03 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Do your best
 
Soberwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Thank you EGNYC that was a very interesting read it made a lot of sense
Soberwolf is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 03:31 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Trudgin
 
Fly N Buy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Yes, support - also for me - is imperative for any hope of recovery - well stated. By myself with the bootstraps yanked wayyy up simply does not work.

To be fair I did not read the article. I followed the link and clicked on the authors name as I don't read the Huffington Post much and need to be careful about what gets into my bean at this point. Anger is not healthy for me...... For the record, I don't watch or listen to Fox or network talking heads either. Just had to quell all the hate, or maybe more appropriately, the agenda driven media. Today I find Gilligan's island compelling enough and I do believe the professor and Mary Ann were more than just island buddies.

I did read another article the author wrote after I looked up his name. It is about animals eating substances that impaired their brain activity with the contention being this was done purposefully and at times of great distress, in most instances. Interesting.

A quote from that article regarding the authors thoughts "I also have to look at how drug use is deeply widespread — and mostly positive."

His contention being 10% of recreational drug users are "harmed" while the remaining 90% are unharmed. "the overwhelming majority of people who use prohibited drugs do it because they get something good out of it — a fun night out dancing, the ability to meet a deadline, the chance of a good night’s sleep, or insights into parts of their brain they couldn’t get to on their own. For them, it’s a positive experience, one that makes their lives better."

Wow, that's quite an assumption.

I did read an apology the author wrote a few years back admitting to plagiarism and the online harrassment of rival journalists (via pseudonymous assaults on their Wikipedia entries), and announcing that he was off to take a course of journalism training at his own expense.

It too was interesting.

Emphatically agree - while many times I drank alone, recovery is a group sport!

Kind Regards,
Fly N Buy is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 04:07 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 90
Thanks for posting this. It was really eye opening. I've never believed much in the theory of addiction. Now I see there is no such thing as an alcoholic or an addict. It's caused by our surroundsings. What a fresh approach. I'll be sure to read this again tonight.
stephendu is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 06:53 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
Venecia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,859
Thank you, EndGame.

So much of this resonated with me. I may not have agreed 100 percent with all of the author's observations, but more than enough.

This, I think, is the core of my struggle. As I approach 1.5 years, sobriety has become my normalcy. While I recognize the importance of vigilance, and am always mindful, the true challenge now is reconnection. Generally an introvert by nature, I'm trying to bring an end to the isolation that characterized so much of my life in addiction.

That, too, is difficult and marked with emotional pain at times. And fear.

I take solace, and strength, in knowing the alternative is far worse.
Venecia is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 07:23 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
Tally809's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW Missouri
Posts: 81
Thank you for providing that link. Interesting.
Tally809 is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 07:27 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
FreeOwl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
Oh..... Oops I posted it too
FreeOwl is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 08:12 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
jaynie04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Thank you endgame, it was a thought provoking article. I think the issue of causation/correlation is still murky though.

Something that I have wondered about is whether or not I have masqueraded as an extrovert my whole life. I believe I often used alcohol as an escape route in social settings that I would have preferred not to be in. I built a life around being social, yet when I looked at my calendar the parts I looked forward to were being alone.

I worked with an excellent therapist over the years. She taught me to honor the parts of myself that needed solitude to recharge. I also began to realize that most societies place a value on being social or connected. Being an extrovert carries a premium. Almost immediately when someone commits a horrible act you will hear the word loner used to describe them.

So think about it. A lot of us here are introverts (and a lot of us are introverts with pets). A lot of us have likely absorbed the social cues that somehow being social is better, more normal, more valued. I wonder how many others there are like me who begin to use alcohol because they have painted themselves into a corner by unwittingly creating relationships predicated on something they are not?

My need for solitude feels visceral. Somehow people assume because I don't seek connection readily that I am somehow aloof. I think a lot of this very basic programming resulted from trauma as a child. For years I took the bait. Party girl. I spent a decade on a NY trading floor elbow to elbow with people as far as I could see. My mailbox and answering machine were always full, I was always responding, I rarely initiated. Introversion does not necessarily mean shy, so I can see how it would be confusing that someone who enjoys solitude can still display a strong character in social settings. But the introversion was always there…the sports I chose, the apartments I lived in, the relationships I made…they have always been oriented towards giving me space.

So I have found that getting sober actually has necessitated my respect for my introversion. I see it as a calm, building period. Maybe it could be labeled isolation. But I am specific about who I spend time with, to me that is being authentic and I find that to be crucial to my sobriety. I have also made it a point to be more vocal to my loved ones about the fact that my need for privacy doesn't mean I don't love them.

I don't know, perhaps it is a byproduct of aging but social events don't hold much allure for me anymore. Geez Louise, sorry, didn't mean to write novel but curious to see others depiction of isolation versus introversion.
jaynie04 is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 08:14 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
jaynie04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Originally Posted by FreeOwl View Post
Oh..... Oops I posted it too
Thank you too!
jaynie04 is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 08:32 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
p***enger
 
courage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 18,986
I thought the article was reasonably reasonable, given its publication venue etc. My main quibble is that I thought it was a bit of a straw man argument -- I thought it was common knowledge that heroin/morphine and nicotine are the abused substances that are the most physically addictive, and that addiction to them as well as to all other substances/behaviors is largely psychological. (Increased tolerance is not the same as physical addiction btw.) So an argument that people who have bad environments or who are psychologically maladaptive are the ones likely to become/remain addicts doesn't seem very novel.
courage2 is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 09:13 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by jaynie04 View Post
Thank you endgame, it was a thought provoking article. I think the issue of causation/correlation is still murky though.

Something that I have wondered about is whether or not I have masqueraded as an extrovert my whole life. I believe I often used alcohol as an escape route in social settings that I would have preferred not to be in. I built a life around being social, yet when I looked at my calendar the parts I looked forward to were being alone.

I worked with an excellent therapist over the years. She taught me to honor the parts of myself that needed solitude to recharge. I also began to realize that most societies place a value on being social or connected. Being an extrovert carries a premium. Almost immediately when someone commits a horrible act you will hear the word loner used to describe them.

So think about it. A lot of us here are introverts (and a lot of us are introverts with pets). A lot of us have likely absorbed the social cues that somehow being social is better, more normal, more valued. I wonder how many others there are like me who begin to use alcohol because they have painted themselves into a corner by unwittingly creating relationships predicated on something they are not?

My need for solitude feels visceral. Somehow people assume because I don't seek connection readily that I am somehow aloof. I think a lot of this very basic programming resulted from trauma as a child. For years I took the bait. Party girl. I spent a decade on a NY trading floor elbow to elbow with people as far as I could see. My mailbox and answering machine were always full, I was always responding, I rarely initiated. Introversion does not necessarily mean shy, so I can see how it would be confusing that someone who enjoys solitude can still display a strong character in social settings. But the introversion was always there…the sports I chose, the apartments I lived in, the relationships I made…they have always been oriented towards giving me space.

So I have found that getting sober actually has necessitated my respect for my introversion. I see it as a calm, building period. Maybe it could be labeled isolation. But I am specific about who I spend time with, to me that is being authentic and I find that to be crucial to my sobriety. I have also made it a point to be more vocal to my loved ones about the fact that my need for privacy doesn't mean I don't love them.

I don't know, perhaps it is a byproduct of aging but social events don't hold much allure for me anymore. Geez Louise, sorry, didn't mean to write novel but curious to see others depiction of isolation versus introversion.
I absolutely love your post and can completely relate.
IntoWishin is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 09:33 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
Venecia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,859
Originally Posted by jaynie04 View Post
Thank you endgame, it was a thought provoking article. I think the issue of causation/correlation is still murky though.

Something that I have wondered about is whether or not I have masqueraded as an extrovert my whole life. I believe I often used alcohol as an escape route in social settings that I would have preferred not to be in. I built a life around being social, yet when I looked at my calendar the parts I looked forward to were being alone.

I worked with an excellent therapist over the years. She taught me to honor the parts of myself that needed solitude to recharge. I also began to realize that most societies place a value on being social or connected. Being an extrovert carries a premium. Almost immediately when someone commits a horrible act you will hear the word loner used to describe them.

So think about it. A lot of us here are introverts (and a lot of us are introverts with pets). A lot of us have likely absorbed the social cues that somehow being social is better, more normal, more valued. I wonder how many others there are like me who begin to use alcohol because they have painted themselves into a corner by unwittingly creating relationships predicated on something they are not?

My need for solitude feels visceral. Somehow people assume because I don't seek connection readily that I am somehow aloof. I think a lot of this very basic programming resulted from trauma as a child. For years I took the bait. Party girl. I spent a decade on a NY trading floor elbow to elbow with people as far as I could see. My mailbox and answering machine were always full, I was always responding, I rarely initiated. Introversion does not necessarily mean shy, so I can see how it would be confusing that someone who enjoys solitude can still display a strong character in social settings. But the introversion was always there…the sports I chose, the apartments I lived in, the relationships I made…they have always been oriented towards giving me space.

So I have found that getting sober actually has necessitated my respect for my introversion. I see it as a calm, building period. Maybe it could be labeled isolation. But I am specific about who I spend time with, to me that is being authentic and I find that to be crucial to my sobriety. I have also made it a point to be more vocal to my loved ones about the fact that my need for privacy doesn't mean I don't love them.

I don't know, perhaps it is a byproduct of aging but social events don't hold much allure for me anymore. Geez Louise, sorry, didn't mean to write novel but curious to see others depiction of isolation versus introversion.
Thanks, Jaynie. You always have insightful posts here on SR.

Isolation vs. introversion is kind of a chicken vs. egg thing for me. In the long run, though, I know it was the isolation that harmed me. The introversion is more about where and how I draw my energy.
Venecia is offline  
Old 01-21-2015, 10:14 PM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
 
Andante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
Yes, it's important for newcomers at the beginning of the recovery learning curve to understand that isolation can be detrimental to recovery, and yes, healthy social functionality and a "happy environment" can serve a role in both avoiding addiction and recovering from it. This article at least serves the purpose of bringing these points to light.

However, it seems to me that otherwise, it falls into the usual old trap of oversimplification and black/white, either/or thinking.

Being a loner doesn't mean you're sentenced to become an addict. Nor are you exempt from addiction just because you're a social animal; social people get addictions too.

Not all loners who become addicts are destined to fail at recovery unless they become more extroverted and socially involved. Not all recovering addicts succeed solely because they increase their social involvement.

The connection between social involvement and addiction avoidance or recovery is only a general trend with plenty of exceptions. Isolation is not the sole "likely cause" of addiction as this article implies.

To say that "everything we have been told about addiction is wrong" is untrue and misleading. Addiction is a complex and nuanced condition with many facets, the physiological facet (the "chemically hijacked brain") being as valid and important a facet as any other. It doesn't follow that just because one facet is true, all the others must be false.

Ugh, sorry to get so pedantic in the newcomer’s forum, but it helps my own recovery to understand these ideas and try to articulate them (even if I don't do it very clearly), and perhaps it could help someone else’s too.

Thanks to EndGameNYC for posting the article.
Andante is offline  
Old 01-22-2015, 07:21 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 684
This article resonates very much with my experience.
I don't think it's really about introversion vs extroversion, but more about the implications of feeling emotionally isolated and stuck in a cycle of isolation. Being an introvert doesn't imply this kind of isolation, and being an extrovert doesn't prevent it.
It's hard to say how well an article of this length can summarize and express the extent of his theory, but I found it intriguing enough that I bought the book.
Adnamaeel is offline  
Old 01-22-2015, 08:31 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
leviathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: illinois
Posts: 907
i believe that the writer's premise is one worth further research. it bears mentioning that our behavior is rooted in belief systems that are more complex than the rodents. -if we find something that numbs the pain, we may come to trust it with flawed reasoning (rats dont do much reasoning).

i know that the proliferation of booze shacks in downtrodden neighborhoods is not coincidental...

then theres the sickness of the addicts belief system vs. the sickness of society. most folks with rehab/AA experience have heard themes regarding this -that we have control issues, picking your battles, choosing sanity, etc.

personally, i know that i was not coping well after years of using/drinking. but i really dont think that stopping my insanity has made the world at large look any more sane. quite the opposite, in fact. one of my many lifestyle changes has been to listen to a little less news, and cut back on political discussions. the proof is in the pudding. im less upset and i dont miss much. it keeps filtering down to me anyway. - humanity is not very nice. never has been. we continue to make the same mistakes and folks would rather guard their opinions than compromise.

janie, your introvert response is worth its own thread. you should post it.
leviathan is offline  
Old 01-22-2015, 08:37 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Nice thoughts, EndGame. I've just read the article today, and had quite a few criticisms, namely the fact the author is selling his book, lol

Glad to read your thoughts on this.
Soberpotamus is offline  
Old 01-22-2015, 08:56 AM
  # 20 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by jaynie04 View Post

My need for solitude feels visceral.
I very much relate to this, Jaynie. And to a lot in your post
Soberpotamus is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:40 AM.