Changing the 12 steps
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by Frixion 
for me when I say spiritual in this case I more mean a feeling of peace in my mind & the feeling of being part of something larger.
It makes me think about the true natures of our universe and although comparably insignificant, I am proof of these natures, as are all of you. This is something I could meditate to, these mysteries I could seek a peace of mind with & accept that many things are not in my control.
So that's the best I could come up with for my own "spirituality".
It makes me think about the true natures of our universe and although comparably insignificant, I am proof of these natures, as are all of you. This is something I could meditate to, these mysteries I could seek a peace of mind with & accept that many things are not in my control.
So that's the best I could come up with for my own "spirituality".
I think of it this way: we are all like the blind men and the elephant. It's dangerous to assume that if someone else's perspective of "God", "nature" or "spirituality" is different than mine, then their view is incorrect. Moreover, just because you disagree with the concept they use to make sense of it (God, or something else) doesn't mean that you cannot avail yourself of the process in which they apply this concept (the 12 steps).
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 658
Dunno frix, the more I work the steps the less I am concerned about what the nature of my higher power is. For one thing there is no test by which things can be measured and for another the name of the game is serenity; gaining mindfulness of oneself and others; fixing the stuff you broke and the hurts you've inflicted.
Debating the existence and nature of higher powers and scientific methods wrt belief systems doesn't do that stuff. I'd propose that trying to define your most perfect program is actually more about delaying working a program of recovery.
But whatever works for you, to fix the hurts you've done and heal those you've received and to steer away from the relapses, is a good choice.
Debating the existence and nature of higher powers and scientific methods wrt belief systems doesn't do that stuff. I'd propose that trying to define your most perfect program is actually more about delaying working a program of recovery.
But whatever works for you, to fix the hurts you've done and heal those you've received and to steer away from the relapses, is a good choice.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
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I haven't been drunk since I quit drinking but have picked up some things I do in order (I never thought of numbering them) upon waking. 1) smoke one cigarette 2)start coffee, 3)log onto SR, 4) take kids to pool, 5)eat, 6)peruse and post, 7)housework, 8)treadmill, 9) eat-take daughter to park/libray, 10) smile, 11) get older kids homework started, dinner, soccer practice, pep rally pick up, pick up wife from work, eat, watch tv, 12) go to bed. Week-ends and holidays change things a bit but it's all just regular stuff--only way less work, drama and lying.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Frixion, my advice... above all, stay true to yourself. What rings real and authentic, go for it. Attempting to swallow the higher power and god thing for some rings hollow, and if that's true for you, no amount of translating, rationalizing, accepting, or faith is going to make it authentic. That's what I found, anyway. I've read just about every alternative version of the steps available on the internet 
I'm still the same old me. I'm agnostic atheist and have been since I was a teenager. That's a fundamental part of my worldview. It's not as if we choose to NOT believe, you know? Theists (especially those I'd call "believers") sometimes don't understand that. And that's ok.
Follow what is real and right for you. Even if that means creating your own version of things.
I'm still the same old me. I'm agnostic atheist and have been since I was a teenager. That's a fundamental part of my worldview. It's not as if we choose to NOT believe, you know? Theists (especially those I'd call "believers") sometimes don't understand that. And that's ok.
Follow what is real and right for you. Even if that means creating your own version of things.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
Originally Posted by Frixion
All day I have been pondering this comment from Sugarbear. And even now I am thinking about how to incorporate a spiritual aspect. Although for me when I say spiritual in this case I more mean a feeling of peace in my mind & the feeling of being part of something larger.
With this in mind, I started thinking about the universe and it's natural properties. There is so much mystery, and our planet in comparison of size is miraculously insignificant yet we are still apart of this grand universe. What this translates for me is that I don't need to know everything & I couldn't if I wanted to - This humbles my control freak nature, and my confidence of our current knowledge/ power. It makes me think about the true natures of our universe and although comparably insignificant, I am proof of these natures, as are all of you. This is something I could meditate to, these mysteries I could seek a peace of mind with & accept that many things are not in my control. "[Reality] grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change", and knowing the things I cannot change will allow me the "wisdom to know the difference" from the things I can change. I believe that meditation may help me discover the "courage to change the things I can".
So that's the best I could come up with for my own "spirituality". I know, I know sounds geeky at best, and this reply probably doesn't make a ton of sense. I just thought I'd express my current thought process regarding this. Still have a lot to work out in my mind.
Please check this out to put a little bit of a visual to what I am trying to explain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYVKcDvokiM
With this in mind, I started thinking about the universe and it's natural properties. There is so much mystery, and our planet in comparison of size is miraculously insignificant yet we are still apart of this grand universe. What this translates for me is that I don't need to know everything & I couldn't if I wanted to - This humbles my control freak nature, and my confidence of our current knowledge/ power. It makes me think about the true natures of our universe and although comparably insignificant, I am proof of these natures, as are all of you. This is something I could meditate to, these mysteries I could seek a peace of mind with & accept that many things are not in my control. "[Reality] grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change", and knowing the things I cannot change will allow me the "wisdom to know the difference" from the things I can change. I believe that meditation may help me discover the "courage to change the things I can".
So that's the best I could come up with for my own "spirituality". I know, I know sounds geeky at best, and this reply probably doesn't make a ton of sense. I just thought I'd express my current thought process regarding this. Still have a lot to work out in my mind.
Please check this out to put a little bit of a visual to what I am trying to explain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYVKcDvokiM
People get too hung up on the word God. Here is the progression in the steps: Higher Power > God as you understand him > God. They all mean the same thing. God means as you understand him, and as you understand him means your concept of a HP. If Bill would have used HP throughout the book instead of shortening it to God I believe people who don't believe in God but could get on board with the spiritual concept of a HP would not recoil from the program.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I resisted those 12 steps for 25 years. My friends of today have also re-written those steps numerous times....
what I found is that those 12 steps, as worked by the big book, do bring about a spiritual experience, a change in me....
I recently began attending a meeting of those 12 steps with a Buddhist twist as I still don't identify with a specific deity.....but I know there is power in the universe that wants me alive and living happily in my own skin.
whatever you find that works for you, do it with all of your effort
what I found is that those 12 steps, as worked by the big book, do bring about a spiritual experience, a change in me....
I recently began attending a meeting of those 12 steps with a Buddhist twist as I still don't identify with a specific deity.....but I know there is power in the universe that wants me alive and living happily in my own skin.
whatever you find that works for you, do it with all of your effort
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