Acting As If......question
Trudgin
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Acting As If......question
In short term sobriety - 150 days, I have learned from others and literature to act "as if" for the good of positive changes. For example, act as if I am not afraid of social settings that once made me nervous. Act as if I can speak in front of a group, am tolerant and not simply indifferent towards people etc.
The concept may sound fraudulent = I am not being honest or truthful. But, when directed towards altering bad habits and changing for the good there is support for this in the recovery community.
This is from a favorite recovery forum many of us utilize - our own SR!
Begin
Find a way to walk into the things that frighten you. Find a partner to walk with you if possible. Many of life’s situations can be challenging when first encountered without the prop of drugs and alcohol. Walking into and through these experiences will give you enough confidence to continue. Remember the fear that went through your heart when you first considered not drinking/using drugs? And here you are now, free from those and looking at how to live life without character defects that can cripple relationships, jobs, school and other social environments where you long to feel a sense of belonging. A common phrase in recovery settings is to “act as if,” meaning to behave as if you felt confident and go right ahead with what you are afraid to do. This can be a job interview, speaking in a group, taking a class, going to the dentist, driving a car, an endless list of things that bring fear into many hearts and minds. For a large number of those in recovery, it is simply a matter of wanting to do something badly enough to dare to do it! So, say a prayer and jump right in.
End
Do you think this is a technique that may work in your recovery and if so how??? Is it something you've used in your recovery?
kind regards,
Fly
The concept may sound fraudulent = I am not being honest or truthful. But, when directed towards altering bad habits and changing for the good there is support for this in the recovery community.
This is from a favorite recovery forum many of us utilize - our own SR!
Begin
Find a way to walk into the things that frighten you. Find a partner to walk with you if possible. Many of life’s situations can be challenging when first encountered without the prop of drugs and alcohol. Walking into and through these experiences will give you enough confidence to continue. Remember the fear that went through your heart when you first considered not drinking/using drugs? And here you are now, free from those and looking at how to live life without character defects that can cripple relationships, jobs, school and other social environments where you long to feel a sense of belonging. A common phrase in recovery settings is to “act as if,” meaning to behave as if you felt confident and go right ahead with what you are afraid to do. This can be a job interview, speaking in a group, taking a class, going to the dentist, driving a car, an endless list of things that bring fear into many hearts and minds. For a large number of those in recovery, it is simply a matter of wanting to do something badly enough to dare to do it! So, say a prayer and jump right in.
End
Do you think this is a technique that may work in your recovery and if so how??? Is it something you've used in your recovery?
kind regards,
Fly
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hey Fly,
Yes!! For me (and I know that for others as well) this is about changing our habits and improving our attitudes toward experiences that we used to be afraid of or found uncomfortable. I don't find this kind of thing difficult usually, I think, because looking for challenges is important part of my core personality - I did this all the time when younger, and it was really the heavy drinking that dulled it and killed it at times. I'm a pretty big novelty seeker by nature. But I got so hooked on a single, repetitive habit - drinking, and arranging everything around it in my life - that I became uninterested in new experiences as an alcoholic drinker, and the constant anxiety I had also made it quite impossible for me to get out of that false comfort.
I think it does not matter that initially it feels a bit fake and we feel like pretending liking something new and unusual, especially if it is indeed a bit uncomfortable. The idea is exploring and seeing how it goes, from experience. Also, repeat. With repetitions, these initially uncomfortable things become much easier - this is known as "conditioning" in my field of science. So, if we figure we like the new experience, our attitude will become gradually and naturally authentic. And if we don't like no matter what, look for something else, or a different way of doing it. So, by getting out of our comfort zone and repeating these initially "risky-looking" experiences, we may form new attitudes and new approaches to actions.
This is how we learn and develop new habits. Just remember how it was with alcohol... when we tried the very first time, or few times recreationally, it was unusual and weird at least a bit, no? But we'd learned that we liked it, and got hooked.
There are many similarities in how we learn and develop habits in terms of how the brain works, regardless of the actual experience (these natural behaviors or drugs). I also used these kinds of techniques, even without knowing any science behind them, in my youth to improve my confidence about speaking in front of groups of people or basically confronting many fears.
Also, there is a strong element in our biology, that we tend to look for security (which makes sense, it serves survival), and that often means we prefer familiar experiences over the unknown, and this can even create habitual (sometimes life-long) repetitions of destructive, maladaptive behavior... by perceiving a false sense of safety just because it is known and familiar. In these cases, exercises like yours can be even more valuable.
So all-in-all, I highly recommend doing what you are describing.
Yes!! For me (and I know that for others as well) this is about changing our habits and improving our attitudes toward experiences that we used to be afraid of or found uncomfortable. I don't find this kind of thing difficult usually, I think, because looking for challenges is important part of my core personality - I did this all the time when younger, and it was really the heavy drinking that dulled it and killed it at times. I'm a pretty big novelty seeker by nature. But I got so hooked on a single, repetitive habit - drinking, and arranging everything around it in my life - that I became uninterested in new experiences as an alcoholic drinker, and the constant anxiety I had also made it quite impossible for me to get out of that false comfort.
I think it does not matter that initially it feels a bit fake and we feel like pretending liking something new and unusual, especially if it is indeed a bit uncomfortable. The idea is exploring and seeing how it goes, from experience. Also, repeat. With repetitions, these initially uncomfortable things become much easier - this is known as "conditioning" in my field of science. So, if we figure we like the new experience, our attitude will become gradually and naturally authentic. And if we don't like no matter what, look for something else, or a different way of doing it. So, by getting out of our comfort zone and repeating these initially "risky-looking" experiences, we may form new attitudes and new approaches to actions.
This is how we learn and develop new habits. Just remember how it was with alcohol... when we tried the very first time, or few times recreationally, it was unusual and weird at least a bit, no? But we'd learned that we liked it, and got hooked.
There are many similarities in how we learn and develop habits in terms of how the brain works, regardless of the actual experience (these natural behaviors or drugs). I also used these kinds of techniques, even without knowing any science behind them, in my youth to improve my confidence about speaking in front of groups of people or basically confronting many fears.
Also, there is a strong element in our biology, that we tend to look for security (which makes sense, it serves survival), and that often means we prefer familiar experiences over the unknown, and this can even create habitual (sometimes life-long) repetitions of destructive, maladaptive behavior... by perceiving a false sense of safety just because it is known and familiar. In these cases, exercises like yours can be even more valuable.
So all-in-all, I highly recommend doing what you are describing.
Trudgin
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
I find it extremely interesting field - conditioning, yes that makes sense. Fake it till you make it - I have heard that phrase.
I having been using this technique of late to develop more tolerance for others. I have always been in dominant business roles directing the activities of others. While successful from a P&L standpoint I really did not truly have much tolerance nor compassion.
Drinking for years only made me indifferent to others at best and misanthropic at worst.
Open group settings with the premise being we are all equals is quite a challenge for me now. I am slowly learning though how to listen leading to much improved communications with people I never would have interacted with in the past. We simple would not have known each other.
But here and outside acting as if does indeed help in developing empathy for others. Man, I have a long way to go....
I having been using this technique of late to develop more tolerance for others. I have always been in dominant business roles directing the activities of others. While successful from a P&L standpoint I really did not truly have much tolerance nor compassion.
Drinking for years only made me indifferent to others at best and misanthropic at worst.
Open group settings with the premise being we are all equals is quite a challenge for me now. I am slowly learning though how to listen leading to much improved communications with people I never would have interacted with in the past. We simple would not have known each other.
But here and outside acting as if does indeed help in developing empathy for others. Man, I have a long way to go....
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,697
Definitely. It's not easy, but I'm having to step out in faith a lot in new sobriety.
Catering to my every want is what got me in trouble! Lol
The cool thing about acting as if is that you're proving that you actually are/have/can do what you desire.
Catering to my every want is what got me in trouble! Lol
The cool thing about acting as if is that you're proving that you actually are/have/can do what you desire.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
Absolutely.
I heard from someone here "act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting".
I often get hung up in the abyss between perfection and procrastination. I used alcohol to ease the discomfort of getting started, especially when it was something I didn't want to do. We had a thread about cleaning our homes when drunk, I was surprised at how many posters related.
It is sort of like going for a run, the hard part really is sitting down to lace up your sneakers. I would say 99% of the time once I get started the actuality is not nearly as bad as the hours of ruminating beforehand.
I used to have all these wonderful thoughts about what I would accomplish, especially when drunk. However so few of my grand schemes came to fruition.
Then when I first got sober I was slightly paralyzed. I kept waiting to "be inspired". I was used to highs and lows but the evenness of sobriety threw me for a loop. I would sit and read articles on procrastination as I procrastinated.
After I read that line here I decided to test the theory. I decided to tackle a desk drawer, and 9 hours later my office was turned upside down.
So I learned two valuable lessons. One, was to just "put my sneakers on". Just get started.
Secondly, I learned that the manic wave I used to enjoy when I was drinking because I could lean on alcohol to relax…riding that wave too far for too long in sobriety without the safety net of a liquid downer left me frazzled. The "easy does it" saying makes a lot of sense to me. Because I have to be more cognizant now of when I am getting ahead of myself, running on fumes. I just noticed the thread on adrenal fatigue…I have a feeling I am not the only one with this trait.
Baby steps are what got me through my first year. Breaking things down into doable portions, and withholding judgment towards myself.
Great thread FNB!
I heard from someone here "act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting".
I often get hung up in the abyss between perfection and procrastination. I used alcohol to ease the discomfort of getting started, especially when it was something I didn't want to do. We had a thread about cleaning our homes when drunk, I was surprised at how many posters related.
It is sort of like going for a run, the hard part really is sitting down to lace up your sneakers. I would say 99% of the time once I get started the actuality is not nearly as bad as the hours of ruminating beforehand.
I used to have all these wonderful thoughts about what I would accomplish, especially when drunk. However so few of my grand schemes came to fruition.
Then when I first got sober I was slightly paralyzed. I kept waiting to "be inspired". I was used to highs and lows but the evenness of sobriety threw me for a loop. I would sit and read articles on procrastination as I procrastinated.
After I read that line here I decided to test the theory. I decided to tackle a desk drawer, and 9 hours later my office was turned upside down.
So I learned two valuable lessons. One, was to just "put my sneakers on". Just get started.
Secondly, I learned that the manic wave I used to enjoy when I was drinking because I could lean on alcohol to relax…riding that wave too far for too long in sobriety without the safety net of a liquid downer left me frazzled. The "easy does it" saying makes a lot of sense to me. Because I have to be more cognizant now of when I am getting ahead of myself, running on fumes. I just noticed the thread on adrenal fatigue…I have a feeling I am not the only one with this trait.
Baby steps are what got me through my first year. Breaking things down into doable portions, and withholding judgment towards myself.
Great thread FNB!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 987
Originally Posted by jaynie04 
Absolutely.
I heard from someone here "act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting".
I often get hung up in the abyss between perfection and procrastination. I used alcohol to ease the discomfort of getting started, especially when it was something I didn't want to do. We had a thread about cleaning our homes when drunk, I was surprised at how many posters related.
It is sort of like going for a run, the hard part really is sitting down to lace up your sneakers. I would say 99% of the time once I get started the actuality is not nearly as bad as the hours of ruminating beforehand.
I used to have all these wonderful thoughts about what I would accomplish, especially when drunk. However so few of my grand schemes came to fruition.
Then when I first got sober I was slightly paralyzed. I kept waiting to "be inspired". I was used to highs and lows but the evenness of sobriety threw me for a loop. I would sit and read articles on procrastination as I procrastinated.
After I read that line here I decided to test the theory. I decided to tackle a desk drawer, and 9 hours later my office was turned upside down.
So I learned two valuable lessons. One, was to just "put my sneakers on". Just get started.
Secondly, I learned that the manic wave I used to enjoy when I was drinking because I could lean on alcohol to relax…riding that wave too far for too long in sobriety without the safety net of a liquid downer left me frazzled. The "easy does it" saying makes a lot of sense to me. Because I have to be more cognizant now of when I am getting ahead of myself, running on fumes. I just noticed the thread on adrenal fatigue…I have a feeling I am not the only one with this trait.
Baby steps are what got me through my first year. Breaking things down into doable portions, and withholding judgment towards myself.
Great thread FNB!
I heard from someone here "act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting".
I often get hung up in the abyss between perfection and procrastination. I used alcohol to ease the discomfort of getting started, especially when it was something I didn't want to do. We had a thread about cleaning our homes when drunk, I was surprised at how many posters related.
It is sort of like going for a run, the hard part really is sitting down to lace up your sneakers. I would say 99% of the time once I get started the actuality is not nearly as bad as the hours of ruminating beforehand.
I used to have all these wonderful thoughts about what I would accomplish, especially when drunk. However so few of my grand schemes came to fruition.
Then when I first got sober I was slightly paralyzed. I kept waiting to "be inspired". I was used to highs and lows but the evenness of sobriety threw me for a loop. I would sit and read articles on procrastination as I procrastinated.
After I read that line here I decided to test the theory. I decided to tackle a desk drawer, and 9 hours later my office was turned upside down.
So I learned two valuable lessons. One, was to just "put my sneakers on". Just get started.
Secondly, I learned that the manic wave I used to enjoy when I was drinking because I could lean on alcohol to relax…riding that wave too far for too long in sobriety without the safety net of a liquid downer left me frazzled. The "easy does it" saying makes a lot of sense to me. Because I have to be more cognizant now of when I am getting ahead of myself, running on fumes. I just noticed the thread on adrenal fatigue…I have a feeling I am not the only one with this trait.
Baby steps are what got me through my first year. Breaking things down into doable portions, and withholding judgment towards myself.
Great thread FNB!
.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,997
I do more acting "in spite" than "as if".
I do the I'm scared but so what. I'm doing it anyway. It's honest. If that's how I feel it's how I feel. It's made for some fun adventures to say the least.
Just me anyway. I'd rather be comfortable taking a chance on something new and goofing up anyway. Heaven knows I'm going to goof up plenty. Might as well get good at it.
I do the I'm scared but so what. I'm doing it anyway. It's honest. If that's how I feel it's how I feel. It's made for some fun adventures to say the least.
Just me anyway. I'd rather be comfortable taking a chance on something new and goofing up anyway. Heaven knows I'm going to goof up plenty. Might as well get good at it.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Another, relevant thought. I have not done this myself, but I think this phenomenon is also what works when many people who are freshly sober, or want to get sober but can't make it and are desperate for support and a program, decide to go to meetings and work the program, despite their initial strong anxiety and reservations. I've read this many times here on SR and also heard from some folks in the few meetings I attended. That they just went through the motions because there was nothing else to do, they had no other option... and after a while "magic" started happening. Again, no personal experience, it just makes sense.
Trudgin
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Originally Posted by haennie
Hey Fly,
Yes!! For me (and I know that for others as well) this is about changing our habits and improving our attitudes toward experiences that we used to be afraid of or found uncomfortable.
I think it does not matter that initially it feels a bit fake and we feel like pretending liking something new and unusual, especially if it is indeed a bit uncomfortable. The idea is exploring and seeing how it goes, from experience. Also, repeat. With repetitions, these initially uncomfortable things become much easier - this is known as "conditioning" in my field of science. So, if we figure we like the new experience, our attitude will become gradually and naturally authentic. And if we don't like no matter what, look for something else, or a different way of doing it. So, by getting out of our comfort zone and repeating these initially "risky-looking" experiences, we may form new attitudes and new approaches to actions.
So all-in-all, I highly recommend doing what you are describing.
Yes!! For me (and I know that for others as well) this is about changing our habits and improving our attitudes toward experiences that we used to be afraid of or found uncomfortable.
I think it does not matter that initially it feels a bit fake and we feel like pretending liking something new and unusual, especially if it is indeed a bit uncomfortable. The idea is exploring and seeing how it goes, from experience. Also, repeat. With repetitions, these initially uncomfortable things become much easier - this is known as "conditioning" in my field of science. So, if we figure we like the new experience, our attitude will become gradually and naturally authentic. And if we don't like no matter what, look for something else, or a different way of doing it. So, by getting out of our comfort zone and repeating these initially "risky-looking" experiences, we may form new attitudes and new approaches to actions.
So all-in-all, I highly recommend doing what you are describing.
jaynie04 Absolutely.
I heard from someone here "act your way into thinking instead of thinking your way into acting".
Then when I first got sober I was slightly paralyzed. I kept waiting to "be inspired". I was used to highs and lows but the evenness of sobriety threw me for a loop. I would sit and read articles on procrastination as I procrastinated.
..... valuable lessons. One, was to just "put my sneakers on". Just get started.
Baby steps are what got me through my first year. Breaking things down into doable portions, and withholding judgment towards myself.
Sit and read......Boy, I do too much of that - I too need to just put my sneakers on. May be my new mantra!
Thank ALL who have given there insights, much appreciated!
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,027
I'm going to be the outlier here and say I'm ambivalent about this approach. To be honest I'm trying to learn gradually the differences between my character defects and my personality. For the former, I think faking change can just lead to getting twisted in new & horrible ways -- e.g., I'm really arrogant. Is it a good idea for me to act as if I were humble?
As for personality -- I'm not social and I don't like spending idle time with groups of people. I've been encouraged to act as if I enjoyed socializing with my fellows, I guess in hope that the feeling would follow -- but it didn't & it won't.
I understand conditioning -- conditioning works with some behaviors but it doesn't change personality and I get concerned about trying to use behavioral conditioning on values without really understanding where the old values come from or why they might need to change. That's pretty primitive psychology.
Here's another instance -- I was encouraged to fake getting better in sobriety for quite a long time when I was really getting more and more depressed, and if I'd been pushed instead to get really honest, I might have gotten help sooner. (Or not, it's impossible to say.)
So I guess I'm so far not a fan of this approach. I'm already really pretty proficient at covering up my feelings, being a bit of a fraud, and so on. I need to learn some different skills, I think.
As for personality -- I'm not social and I don't like spending idle time with groups of people. I've been encouraged to act as if I enjoyed socializing with my fellows, I guess in hope that the feeling would follow -- but it didn't & it won't.
I understand conditioning -- conditioning works with some behaviors but it doesn't change personality and I get concerned about trying to use behavioral conditioning on values without really understanding where the old values come from or why they might need to change. That's pretty primitive psychology.
Here's another instance -- I was encouraged to fake getting better in sobriety for quite a long time when I was really getting more and more depressed, and if I'd been pushed instead to get really honest, I might have gotten help sooner. (Or not, it's impossible to say.)
So I guess I'm so far not a fan of this approach. I'm already really pretty proficient at covering up my feelings, being a bit of a fraud, and so on. I need to learn some different skills, I think.
Trudgin
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Originally Posted by courage2
I'm going to be the outlier here and say I'm ambivalent about this approach. To be honest I'm trying to learn gradually the differences between my character defects and my personality. For the former, I think faking change can just lead to getting twisted in new & horrible ways -- e.g., I'm really arrogant. Is it a good idea for me to act as if I were humble?
As for personality -- I'm not social and I don't like spending idle time with groups of people. I've been encouraged to act as if I enjoyed socializing with my fellows, I guess in hope that the feeling would follow -- but it didn't & it won't.
I understand conditioning -- conditioning works with some behaviors but it doesn't change personality and I get concerned about trying to use behavioral conditioning on values without really understanding where the old values come from or why they might need to change. That's pretty primitive psychology.
Here's another instance -- I was encouraged to fake getting better in sobriety for quite a long time when I was really getting more and more depressed, and if I'd been pushed instead to get really honest, I might have gotten help sooner. (Or not, it's impossible to say.)
So I guess I'm so far not a fan of this approach. I'm already really pretty proficient at covering up my feelings, being a bit of a fraud, and so on. I need to learn some different skills, I think.
As for personality -- I'm not social and I don't like spending idle time with groups of people. I've been encouraged to act as if I enjoyed socializing with my fellows, I guess in hope that the feeling would follow -- but it didn't & it won't.
I understand conditioning -- conditioning works with some behaviors but it doesn't change personality and I get concerned about trying to use behavioral conditioning on values without really understanding where the old values come from or why they might need to change. That's pretty primitive psychology.
Here's another instance -- I was encouraged to fake getting better in sobriety for quite a long time when I was really getting more and more depressed, and if I'd been pushed instead to get really honest, I might have gotten help sooner. (Or not, it's impossible to say.)
So I guess I'm so far not a fan of this approach. I'm already really pretty proficient at covering up my feelings, being a bit of a fraud, and so on. I need to learn some different skills, I think.
Here's another perspective:
This is from Drop the Rock - published by Hazelden
The more willing we become and the more we practice acting “as if,” the more active our surrender becomes and the more we are able to live “as if.” It is a fulfilling and rewarding process. Acting “as if” can raise questions of genuineness and authenticity. Is there a conflict with the person I am choosing to become and the person I currently am?
Authenticity is being true to a vision and purpose. We are authentic when we choose to act and feel and choose to behave in balance with the higher values and principles we’ve chosen for our lives. If those principles and values are not fully in place and manifested, it doesn’t make us phony. It makes us human. If we feel the conflict between who we are and who we would become, it is good. It signals that we understand the difference between reality and fantasy and are moving toward reality.
End
I have found this book an amazing resource as relating to aa steps 6&7
fly
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,027
My sponsor has given me a copy of that book. I'm reading it but I remain myself -- ambivalent and skeptical. Maybe those are some of my rocks but they've saved my life once or twice. The language you quoted could be used to sell snake oil, no offence. If you feel itching or burning on first application of snake oil, that's the way it's supposed to feel, buy some more and slather it on, you just haven't used enough yet!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Courage - how about replacing "as if" with curiosity? That's how it usually works well for me, much better than just simply pushing myself into something I'm not interested in. I may be afraid of something and feel uncomfortable, but if I am curious enough to know and try it, to challenge myself also and see if I can change my behavior... to me this is an automatic mechanism no need to force it even, because the curiosity is the force.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,027
Haennie, I have absolutely nothing against facing fears to develop skills or engage in activities that arouse your curiosity. Or like Hawks said, acting better than you feel in public among people who are not your confidants. Those are simply not the situations where I've heard this language used. Mostly I've heard it used to encourage people within AA to participate in fellowship and service, and to encourage people to keep attending meetings when they felt they weren't getting anything out of the program.
Persistence in some things despite lack of gratification is very important, for instance it's important for the health of an alcoholic to persist in sobriety. I'm just not sure that the "act as if" method is the right method for me. I'm not trying to beat up on AA. I have a home group, I do service, I have a sponsor, I'm working the steps. There are aspects of AA that I really don't like. I don't fake that I like them, but I don't complain about them either. I wouldn't have said any of this if Flynbuy's thread were in an AA-specific forum.
Persistence in some things despite lack of gratification is very important, for instance it's important for the health of an alcoholic to persist in sobriety. I'm just not sure that the "act as if" method is the right method for me. I'm not trying to beat up on AA. I have a home group, I do service, I have a sponsor, I'm working the steps. There are aspects of AA that I really don't like. I don't fake that I like them, but I don't complain about them either. I wouldn't have said any of this if Flynbuy's thread were in an AA-specific forum.
Life is an unlikely miracle.
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: England
Posts: 1,859
Acting "as if" works for me in some situations and not others. My main mantra in life at the moment is "accept what is" .That includes myself, others and how the world works.
I haven't got any further than that yet !
Great thread, and great counter views too. A lot of food for thought here.
I haven't got any further than that yet !
Great thread, and great counter views too. A lot of food for thought here.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
