Verte

Soberjennie - very true. You are such a wise and brave woman and I have learned much from you and the lessons you have shared since I joined SR. Thanks.

Verte

Hey Charlie, never underestimate the power of reaching out I'm staying strong. My heart is thawing, I think. Who knew? Thanks.

Thanks to everyone with reaching out and extending good words. Tonight I have an enormous amount of gratitude in my heart. Glad I posted and sent out the Bat Signal. I promise to pay it forward.

Nuudawn

My dear soulsister... I wish I knew the words. They are not coming easily at the moment. I am so very glad you unburdened yourself here. As someone who has done a whole lot of it here lately...I know how soft, warm and lovely this SR cushion is. If there is ANYTHING I have learned in this past few weeks of emotional rollercoaster...is I gotta ride it out to the finish. And..dear Lord..it's exhausting..the lurching, the lunging..twisting and turning...
Feel your feelings..but know..perhaps...well, at least for me... I cannot trust my wisdom when I am in fear, pain, anxiety..any negative emotion. I have acted on them..mostly foolishly (but in hindsight...I could not contain it within the seams)

Stay in the cart..buckle up...this will all unfold as it should. Don't try to write your own ending right now...ride this out. I want to share something with you that I read last night that helped me out as I continued to process on the highway today...

"No matter what challenges you face or how difficult things get, the insights and breakthroughs of growth eventually lead to transformation. Personal growth leads to happy endings."

jaynie04

LTV..when I read the line about you calling his addiction counselor and asking that no more joint materials be sent home it was like a knife through butter. That is astonishing clarity. You nailed it.

I believe that relationships endure because of healthy boundaries. We set up boundaries in both positive and negative areas of our lives. This wasn't against him, this was for you.


As an ACOA I spend a lot of time lurking on the friends and family forum here. The saying let go or be dragged really hit home for me, and it sounds like you have already figured this out.

I don't think letting go means the relationship is doomed. I think it means that you have found your footing, he is graced with a real live success story if he is looking for how it is done. But all of us new to recovery are still trying to balance ourselves, trying to pull anyone onto our life raft when it is still tippy means there is a good chance we both might drown.

Somewhere deep down I knew that my husband has pretty healthy boundaries. I wanted to get my own power back before I dissolved into someone who was grateful that he was tolerating me. It sounds like you have been able to vocalize where you are at….bravo.

For what it's worth, my addictions counselor with all these fancy credentials from some fancy rehab ended up being a nightmare. The only reason I stayed sober is because I followed my own heart (with a little help from you all…). But she was MY problem, I had to be the one to take ownership, and then take action.

As difficult as it is right now, I hope you can see the healthy parts of where you are…they are very obvious to me. You have busted your rear end, and it shows.

Sending hugs and support.

DoubleDragons

LTV, I am so sorry for your pain. My mother is an active alcoholic and the rest of my extended family, are at the least, very heavy drinkers. As I get healthier, I feel the moat between me and my loved ones getting larger and larger and it makes me so sad sometimes. I have no desire to go backwards and they are not at the point of admitting real problems with alcohol, so the chasm is there. I sense my second year of recovery is really going to have to be focused on the real meaning of letting go. Sending prayers of comfort~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LBrain

(((((LTV))))) - sorry to hear of your struggles, glad to know you are able to face this sober - 7 months yay. Stay strong and keep your wits about you. You are a strong woman and deserve goodness.

Aellyce

My dear friend... this was hard for me to read. You probably know why, I've written like 100 times about my past experience about my relationship with another addict, and what I often describe as an addiction itself (the relationship). How the few years of being together marked both of us in ways that will probably never cease to influence our choices and our actions. I like the quote that Nuu posted above, because that's how I feel it has eventually become for me... a healing transformation, and my life would probably be quite different now without that story, including my career, everything.

I am incredibly proud of you for your strength and ability to build your own recovery of 7 months in this condition. I also completely understand why you did not share this before and I am very glad that you did now. You will see it helps.

So it sounds like your husband also intends to get sober but he is struggling with it. It's great that both of you are getting help individually and I think it's the right thing on your end to say 'no' to stuff you don't feel ready to get into or disagree with. I also understand totally why, in some ways, you are "plotting" your escape... but I agree with the suggestions that you don't focus too much on any possible outcome or unfolding yet. When I was in this sort of situation, one of the most difficult components for most of us was that we got engaged in those dark imaginations, as if not only our relationship, but the whole world was ending... we did that for years. I eventually did escape from it practically/physically, but we still would not let the connection go for a long time. Just saw him after a few years of no contact last week, I wrote about this on my thread... just to learn that he still really has not changed much in his mind and in his life. It was really heartbreaking.

You are handling all this so bravely and with grace, my friend. It's a cliche but I will say what we all say to each-other about similar situations here on SR. Focus on yourself, be as supportive as you realistically can with your husband, try to work on the relationship if you can, but don't let his struggle cut in your now-victory. Things will unfold as you go, both individually and together. Maybe in ways you could have never imagined before, and can't imagine now. This is what happened to me... there is a lot of depth and healing to be found in it if you let the transformation happen and work on it. Knowing you the way I do, I am absolutely certain that you will.

I am with you in thought and so is everyone else here

Ptcapote

Wow, I can't top the advice here given by some truly courageous and wise souls.

But I can throw in a hug and lots of thoughts of support for you

Ruby2

Hugs LTV! It's a road I've walked. I started on here posting on friends and family before switching to newcomers for my own drinking. I knew I would never recover myself if I didn't let go of trying to control or worrying about him getting sober or whether our marriage would work out. I'm not saying that is what you are experiencing, it's just what I experienced.

And so far letting go has worked out for me. It was a very long and painful and fear infused process though so again, sending you hugs. Setting boundaries is crucial and it sounds as if you have that in hand but support always helps

Verte

You know. So much of what I read here sticks with me throughout my day. You'd be surprised, Ptcapote. Plus, I can always tell when I need a break because usually I get prickly in my responses on SR.

The last few days I have been walking about my day swearing like a Longshoreman in my head. When this happens, I just know something is up. And when I read that Nuu was going on a road trip, images of some of the most free stretches of my life ran through my head and gave me momentary peace. And I thought "Nuu! Take me with you!" But then your peaceful trip, Nuu, would definitely turn raucous.

You all really inspire me. Your words, strength and actions. All I can think about lately is where did my power go? At what point in my life did I trade in my beautiful, unique strength for just a shell representation of this strength? When did it become preferable to be one thing on the outside and something entirely different within? Well, it was never OK. Not OK now. It takes a lot of work to be something other than one's self. That is not a lesson I wish to pass onto my girls. As messy as I may seem. I love me and yes, deserve TLC and peace.

So Nuu, I'm going on a road trip this weekend as well. Just me and my music! Haennie, I read that you might be getting away also? Just thinking about it gives me peace.

EndGame, you once responded to a poster who was wondering when a person knows they're recovered. You wrote something that sticks with me, about how it is like love, you cannot necessarily describe it, it's just a feeling and you know it. Or something to that effect. Well, that is beautiful and something worth shooting for.

Thanks for the hugs and good words and sharing. So appreciated it. Now I feel that I am a woman who has read her way away from the brink and is no longer on the brink. Progress!

Verte

Hey Jaynie...your wisdom here on the boards has always been very thought provoking and helpful for my thinking process.

There has been an air of such intense anxiety under my roof for a couple of weeks and a few posts over the past few days have really hit me to the core. And I realize that the dysfunction with alcohol in my life extends deeply and painful out and beyond myself. Not just to the company I have kept or avoided but to our families. work. Just thinking about the holidays this year makes me feel like I am gearing up for...what? Gearing up for love and support? No. This is not the case. Gearing up for performance.

I've been doing everything in my power to raise my sweet girls with a healthy sense of themselves and the world. Yet, my immediate world requires that my own personal wisdom and strength be removed, just to be part of it. And I want it to end.

Sobriety means I want it all to end. ALL the smoke and mirrors. It does not matter to me how well everyone else functions with the dysfunction. I need to recognize it for what it is. Now. No more fighting about having to 'pretend' that my life and experience are something they are not.

I appreciate so much every single voice here that has spoken up and said "this is my experience. This is how alcohol affected my experience or tainted my childhood, adulthood..." This stuff runs deep and leaves no one unscathed. What a pain. But it is real and not smoke and mirrors.

Thanks again everyone for the hugs. Each one matters so much because I am part of this community of really, really strong human beings. And I am grateful.

Nuudawn

Funny..I was just using that term "messy" in a lot of my head conversations yesterday. I too am feeling very messy...but real, alive and fully awake.

But it's REAL ain't it? Yup...messy...in stereo and glorious technicolor. Bold, bright and living. Taking no prisoners.

I'm okay with messy these days...yours and mine especially.

I love you too...
And I'm getting a little enfatuated with sober me also.

Road trip...oh my...so good for the soul. Glad you're taking one.
(I do wish people would wake up round here and pump me some gas though)

Aellyce

I thought like this constantly during the time when I was struggling with the relationship I spoke of. And often also later, and still do sometimes. To me these kinds of thoughts signal guilt (that I am very prone to). I think that I do believe it's good to question ourselves at times, otherwise where would growth come from? It is true that our strength and vulnerability is not static, as far as our subjective feelings about these things go. But in reality, I think it's better to measure these traits and states on a more objective (maybe not the appropriate word) scale, based on our actions, relative to the realistic possibilities and limitations of the situations where we are and need to act.

In this context, from what I can see about your attitude, actions, orientation to others, etc via SR is that you DO have amazing strength and a unique way to love and support. I remember when you first started posting on SR, I immediately recognized you for these traits and the style associated with it. And while your emotional states and sense of "success" may be fluctuating, your sobriety and enthusiasm for personal growth (and how you tend to nurture this in others) seems pretty solid and steady to me. Like you said in one of the posts here, the best way to lead is lead by example... and you are doing that very well. The amount, quality, and content of responses you get from this community demonstrates that, too.

The dissonance you may be feeling ("When did it become preferable to be one thing on the outside and something entirely different within?") is not necessarily coming from your not being able to realize your internal inspirations in each moment because of what you do, but because of the state of the part of reality outside of yourself and/or your control. In this case, your husband's struggles... I often speak about this with people, that we tend to view the world (reality) in terms of dualities, if nothing else, we tend to feel keenly a dichotomy between "me and others", "the external world and the internal world", and so forth. I think this is what reinforces that sense of dissonance, and so it's best to let go of this sense of duality, if possible. Reality, in reality ... is not made of separate fragments or compartments, but a unity of interrelated and ever-changing whole, and it's always happening here and now, everything together, but the units (eg. human beings) are not always synchronized. That's just the normal state of it, the way things are.

Based on what I can see via your posts and also your messages to me, you really are doing your best to care for both yourself and the people around you. And you have a very strong sense always wanting to improve everything... I relate to this a lot... it is both a bane and a blessing. People often tell me, when I struggle with my own issues, that sometimes our greatest strengths become our greatest weakness... and I think this is true, in a quite general way, for human beings. Why we may wonder at time "where did our strength go?" But it's there. You know it's there and you feel it within, you are very much connected to that inner source of inspiration, strength, love, and wanting to make a difference. And you have a healthy sense of self when you say you love yourself and deserve happiness. Notice that many people don't think this way!

Also, in terms of relationships, I very much agree with what Jaynie said above about healthy boundaries. I usually struggle a bit with dropping my guards, and when I decide to do, I tend to do completely and many times it made the other person do the same... None of these extremes are the best basis for a functional long-term relationship. I think that in large part, my story with the addict ended up the way it did because we had no boundaries at all (none of us, but I was the trigger for this initially). This is what made it so addiction-like, I think. Sure, it was an experience with some extreme and sometimes frightening levels of intimacy also that I know not everyone would dare to get into, and I have no regrets now... but I do think that a balanced relationship that's viable also in long-term practical reality needs more boundaries... a healthy amount. This is what I'm keeping in mind now for the next time if I get into a relationship again. I want to try to find a more balanced combination of these things because I'm convinced that's essential for the relationship to survive. In this sense, it seems to me that you have something like that with your husband, you never talk about him or your life in the extreme ways I tend to about my past story... That's a very good thing, my friend.

Hope you are feeling a little better today Oh and yeah I did decide to take a little break and got out of the city for 3 days to mostly do nothing else but read, meditate, and walk... it's been very therapeutic. Going back home today. I really recommend some sort of break for you as well, just for you, even if it's only a couple days.

ardy

Here's another for you LeTheVerte. and so many of us have been in these tears.. love another lady .. in the same circle of life.. ardy

Verte

Here's a big, messy, sloppy kiss to kick off your day of travels, Nuu!

nmd

(((LTV))) It sounds like you are handling things in the best way possible, everyone needs to walk their own path even in a relationship or marriage. It does sound like a very positive step, if just a little scary. I think I sometimes find it is easier to accept someone as imperfect than to deal with the craziness and risk of them failing to change. Change and relationships are just hard, no way around it.

My GF of 3 years drinking hasn't escalated to a point where it's a problem, but it's well beyond healthy levels. It's really not something we can talk about though, she was defensive enough when I wanted to quit and I do my best to keep my sobriety safe. For us, I think it has to do a lot with her ex being a heroin addict and the crazy roller coaster ride she went on with him. That, and my own crazy behavior and excessive drinking during the time she has known me. I don't think she's ready to believe that I can quit long term. She's been there done that, had her hopes up and crushed too many times.

On a positive note, I really think it was my binge drinking made her drinking much much worse. Since I've been sober, her drinking has been much more normal. It's no longer the two of us polishing off a bottle of rum in an evening. So just through my own change, things got better without me even saying anything. I love her to death, but I also know I can't do anything to change her if she wants to continue to drink excessively. I guess I look at it like anything in life, things could take a turn for the worse or better at any time. I'm very happy and I feel our life is going in the right direction, so that is enough for today.

Good luck. :-)

DoubleDragons

I don't know is this is helpful or not to you, LTV, but if not, maybe it might help someone else. Since I am sober about 13 months, I am now just getting past the just don't drink phase of my sobriety, and more into the nitty gritty as to what makes me tick and some of my dysfunctional ways that might have lead me to my addiction. Having an alcoholic parent, and having my first child just leave for college, it has become glaringly obvious to me that codependency is a real problem for me. My husband is a child of alcoholics, as well, so while I think we have a relatively healthy marriage, there are areas in our marriage that really show both of our insecurities.

Someone on SR's F&F forum posted a story called the fable of two codependents. Reading this was another "aha" moment for me. (Thank you, SR, for more "aha moments" in one year than I have probably accumulated in a lifetime!) Anyway this passage from that story really made sense to me:

Codependency is based on a toxic mix of conditional love and unconditional commitment. In a healthy adult relationship it is more the opposite way around, that love is unconditional, while there are, as there should be, clearly stated conditions related to maintaining a high level of commitment. So, when I am being codependent, I not only miss the chance to learn about meeting my own needs by myself, I also lose the chance of experiencing unconditional love with another human being.

My sobriety has given me so much freedom in ways that I never understood. I am now working on freeing myself from my codependent thoughts and actions. The F&F section of SR is equally as wonderful and wise and caring and helpful as this side of SR. I have found their help and insight invaluable. (((((((((((((LTV))))))))))))))))))

ElleDee

Know that you are LOVED and have our support.

JT0626

OMG, thank you for posting. Although I am the only one in my marriage that has stopped drinking, no one (I mean NO ONE) outside my husband knows how bad my drinking actually got. It is such a source of shame for me. I prided myself in not being a drinker before I became one.

Now, here I am battling these same demons on my own. Shame can certainly do a number on us & it's so hard to let go.

Hugs to you, LVT.....I'm supporting you.

Verte

Thank you so much for the hugs and words of support everyone. There has been progress since I first posted in the sense that my heart feels better and I have thought quite a bit. I would like to update post later.

Big hugs back at you all.