pakman

A few days ago, I had a chance to dine out by myself. My family had other plans and my wife suggested that I take the opportunity to eat out at a restaurant I like that my family doesn't.

That turned out to be Outback. I used to go there by myself often when I drank. I usually arrived drunk on vodka, sat at the bar, had more beers, devoured a large steak and stumbled out.

Anyway, I went and got a seat at the bar without thinking about it much. Then it hit me that this was probably not the best idea... It turned out that my AV was pretty quiet and I just ordered water with lemon and dinner. I enjoyed it.

Having said all that, is it stupid to put myself in a situation like that? On the one hand, it seems like temptation that could be avoided. On the other hand, I feel good for having passed the 'test.'

Any thoughts, experiences?

pakman

biminiblue

I think we all do what we feel we can handle.

I've been to several of my drinking "haunts" since I stopped and haven't been tempted.



I mean, Outback steak! Yum.

MIRecovery

The problem I have is I never know when it will be OK and when it won't.

least

If you're still early in recovery it might be a good idea not to put yourself in harm's way by going to places like that. I'm glad you didn't drink tho.

Lusher

Agreed.

Sort of like 'dangling a carrot in front of a hungry rabbit.' This abstaining business is hard enough as it is, so I sort of avoid any added temptations. However, in your case you did stay the course, which is great, but why tease yourself?

sprout50

Well, you didn't drink so that is good but only you really know how it felt to be there. If it were me,i wouldn't tempt fate too many times but that is me.

Soberwolf

Id advise against it in early recovery

good on you for not drinking

pakman

This poses another question. What is 'early' in recovery? Isn't that a highly individualized thing? By any standard, I'm in early recovery, 71 days. But, I still wonder how does one know?

I know someone in my CR group who has been sober for several years and still talks about struggling at family gatherings and social situations. Others, who have much less time don't seemed to be bothered by them.

I mean, how does one know?

pakman

sprout50

I think that is individual as well. I would think though that anything under a year is early recovery. Just my two cents.

MsJax

I don't think it's wise to do that, but then I'm not one that believes in "testing myself". I'm glad you're sober tho!

newhope01

I don't see a problem with you visiting your favorite restaurant, but I do see a problem with sitting at the bar. There was no need for you to choose a seat there in order to have just a steak. Especially since this act sounds like it was part of a drinking ritual for you in the past.

Also, relapse is a process not a single isolated event. This may be the beginning of a process that may lead you down a path you don't want to follow. What was once an easy night out for dinner may next time become an ordeal of temptation or worse an episode of drinking again.

Not to come off as a "debbie downer," but as they always say, our sobriety needs to be our #1 priority.

Carlotta

I am one of those whose AV is very, very quiet. I can have lunch with a friend who is having a drink and it will not bother me. I very rarely think about drinking and had almost no cravings when I quit both times (this is my second time in recovery).
What I keep in mind is that while my AV is very quiet, it is still there.. bidding its time, waiting for me to be vulnerable and unprepared to pounce on me. My AV is like an ambush predator: quiet, good at hiding and patient.
It got me after 5 years sober so I know from experience that it will never truly go away and I will always have to be vigilant.

pakman

This is a good point. I did so because the wait for a table was 45 minutes (Sat. night) and a seat was open at the bar. I guess that raises another question. If some of you were in my situation, would you wait 45 minutes so you can avoid sitting at the bar?

heartcore

I recognize that my view is different than many on here, but I choose to be sober without any limitations. I want the freedom to go anywhere and do anything I choose, sober.

Now, the caveat to that is that I don't CHOOSE to spend time in heavy drinking environments - I didn't like bar culture when I was drinking, crowds make me nervous, etc. I was primarily a solitary drinker, so if I were following the idea that I'll get triggered, opening the door to my little house after a stressful day at work would be out of the question for me.

But, more than this, I believe that it is my task to learn what situations make me uncomfortable and why. If interacting at a business function without a glass of wine in hand makes me nervous, what does it reflect? Is it a sense of being less than? Does it have to do with feeling like I'm not dressed professionally enough? You get the point. There is a learning inside every single uncomfortable feeling or moment.

I don't want to bombard myself with those learnings until I collapse in a sobbing heap, but I am committed to this as a lifetime journey. I'm exploring myself through sobriety. I'm exploring the world through sobriety. I need to "take some risks" to open the world to myself, or I will be lonely and bored and limited. I was lonely in the end of my drinking. To "change it up" I actually need to move more into the world.

So, I try to listen to myself. I am very involved in AA, do SR daily, am taking care of my health and healing. But, I choose to say "yes" to opportunities to interact with the world (and a lot of the world is holding a glass of alcohol); that is a brave and new behavior for me. I wouldn't sit at the bar if I had both options (bar or restaurant) - mostly because I don't find bar stools comfortable, prefer the booth. I wouldn't waste 45 minutes waiting for a table if I could eat in the bar though (because when I'm hungry, I'm hungry).

Again, I am absolutely aware that this advice is different than dominant wisdom on this site. I am offering it because everyone's sobriety is utterly individual (even while we share so many experiences). For me, this choice of approach HELPS me stay sober. I use images of being a sober warrior/a revolutionary force to reinforce my sobriety.

If this ever doesn't work for me, I will change it. For me, sobriety is about seeing what works. I'm a rebel. A sense of restriction makes me want to counter it. It is only by seeing sobriety as an EXPANSION of my possibilities that I have been able to make this decision to be sober. There might be someone out there similarly constructed, and so this message is for them.

Nonsensical

It depends. Normally I would just eat at the bar, unless I was in a mood where I thought it would stimulate my AV. Then I would go to Taco Bell. I'm not that picky about food.

biminiblue

I love your turn of phrase here, heartcore. I also agree with your philosophy - that life has to be managed in all its moments and to try to foresee/foreswear is to play God.

Playing God has always always led me in a very bad direction.

I have a thought of drinking - or more precisely, a thought of the euphoria it used to bring - at many different times of the day. They are almost never tied to a place - just a fleeting thought/memory. In my interpretation, they are like that phantom pain that amputees say they experience.

bigsombrero

I went to a bar the first day I got out of REHAB. Sat at the bar and had fish tacos. Didn't drink.

That wasn't a "test". That was: "I don't know where else to go".

You used to go to Outback Steakhouse and sit at the bar, eat steak, and get drunk. Now you just went and sat at the bar and ate steak. It's great you're not drinking, but was there anything there that was so magical about Outback Steakhouse that you needed to be there? That's an old habit. I'd recommend getting some new ones. Good luck!

fantail

I am in heartcore's camp here. I found in my last stint of sobriety that feeling shut off from things is a big trigger for me. If I feel like I can't go where I want when I want, I start to hate sobriety and it's a short path from there to "I can't do this anymore". I was also primarily a solitary drinker, and when I did relapse it was alone in an apartment.

It's still hard for me to be in drinking environments, but less hard than feeling like I have to limit myself from things and places I enjoy. I also find that the more I do it, the easier it gets.

But I think it all comes down to the individual. Knowing yourself is the most important thing.

GracieLou

I do not have a problem when someone else has a drink. Most social drinkers have one maybe two with dinner.

Then there are those that drink alcoholically like I did, those I can’t handle. So some of the people that say they still have problems may be referring to family functions that involved lots of alcoholic drinking.

That is why I stay away from bars. I was not a fancy bar or restaurant bar drinker. The kind I went to were corner, blue collar, beer and a shot type bars. Most of the people in there drank like I did. They were not social drinkers. The music, the pool table, the loud laughter and conversations, the cheap booze and the free shots were a norm. It is the atmosphere that would drag me in before the booze would but it would not take long for the craving to hit.

Today I simply do not test myself. I have no reason to. I have no business being in a bar like that today. People are there to drink.

Now a restaurant that has a bar I go to but I could NEVER sit at the bar. I got to a table or booth.

I am sure there are people that dodge trains for fun, I no longer wish to dodge trains.

Unless I have a legitimate, honest reason for being at a bar or sitting at a bar, I don’t do it. I have no need. The bar is for drinking, I don’t drink.

freshstart57

I'm with fantail and heartcore on these questions. I also chose to be sober without any limitations, and I chose to be sober without any conditions or requirements.

I quit drinking to regain my freedom and my self-respect. I don't see going to gathering where alcohol is available as dodging trains. It is up to you to set your limits.