Something to the ole new relationship caution I think...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Something to the ole new relationship caution I think...
It's been quite a weekend. I spent Friday night in a pub...stone cold sober whilst my new boyfriend and all his work crew got mildly soused. For the first couple hours, I was a rather angsty fish out of water. What the hell was I doing there. I didn't know anyone but him. I hate small talk. I would have felt like the odd woman out even if I was drinkin'..sure of it. I know he wanted to introduce to his friends and I had forewarned him that I might have to bail if I got uncomfortable. I got through it.
There were other nerve wracking relationship things I need not go into...
But what is becoming abundantly clear...
Is I am somewhat of a shy and awkward woman...and I had no idea! And this intimacy stuff...wow...HARD...really hard. I have a very hard time saying what's on my mind..I mean..the vulnerable stuff.
I might be over my head here...
My sobriety moorings are feeling a bit adrift I think.
There were moments I DID think bout drinking at that pub.
I didn't.
But I thought bout it...
And today..well, it IS a hard day..
My feelings are making it hard...
Underneath all the drinking I guess I DID know I sucked at this intimacy stuff...
But it's hitting hard and heavy right now..
I'm tired. I'm rambling.
Just needed to say something....cuz well...bit nervous I guess.
Isn't this the time I use alcohol to mess everything up...cuz I don't know what else to do and need something to do....and blame. Easier to accept rejection of drinking me...
Than the real me....
There were other nerve wracking relationship things I need not go into...
But what is becoming abundantly clear...
Is I am somewhat of a shy and awkward woman...and I had no idea! And this intimacy stuff...wow...HARD...really hard. I have a very hard time saying what's on my mind..I mean..the vulnerable stuff.
I might be over my head here...
My sobriety moorings are feeling a bit adrift I think.
There were moments I DID think bout drinking at that pub.
I didn't.
But I thought bout it...
And today..well, it IS a hard day..
My feelings are making it hard...
Underneath all the drinking I guess I DID know I sucked at this intimacy stuff...
But it's hitting hard and heavy right now..
I'm tired. I'm rambling.
Just needed to say something....cuz well...bit nervous I guess.
Isn't this the time I use alcohol to mess everything up...cuz I don't know what else to do and need something to do....and blame. Easier to accept rejection of drinking me...
Than the real me....
Failure Is Not An Option
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 244
It's messed up isn't it? I liken it to my far sightedness being gone and I'm constantly looking down in front of me. It makes me wobble around and hard to stay true to a course. Although, the longer I'm sober, the better my sight is getting. It takes time and patience. It takes time to learn how to be me and be OK with me. Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 181
Hi Nuudawn,
Being in any relationship is hard, and navigating a new one has constant challenges. Kudos to you for making it out of the pub without drinking! Without alcohol to buffer our shyness and nervousness and feelings in general, I think we all feel overwhelmed by these experiences. Be gentle with yourself. Do you love this guy? Can you do other things besides go to the pub? Is he aware of your sobriety (therefore not a good idea to be in social situations where everyone is drinking?) time will tell. If you do really love this guy, then I think that's something to try for. Love is rare, and even though the vulnerability that comes with it is terrifying sometimes, that will not change no matter what. Time and building a solid relationship will help you grow together and will lessen that fear of intimacy. So, if you think he's the one, go slowly, give it some time, and see how it goes. If you find that it's heap ordaining your sobriety, take a step back and let him know that. If he's the one, he will wait for you. I wish you the best
Being in any relationship is hard, and navigating a new one has constant challenges. Kudos to you for making it out of the pub without drinking! Without alcohol to buffer our shyness and nervousness and feelings in general, I think we all feel overwhelmed by these experiences. Be gentle with yourself. Do you love this guy? Can you do other things besides go to the pub? Is he aware of your sobriety (therefore not a good idea to be in social situations where everyone is drinking?) time will tell. If you do really love this guy, then I think that's something to try for. Love is rare, and even though the vulnerability that comes with it is terrifying sometimes, that will not change no matter what. Time and building a solid relationship will help you grow together and will lessen that fear of intimacy. So, if you think he's the one, go slowly, give it some time, and see how it goes. If you find that it's heap ordaining your sobriety, take a step back and let him know that. If he's the one, he will wait for you. I wish you the best
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
It is hard....in the beginning...but thankfully we get better at 'stuff'.
I am shy and quiet and pretty taciturn...but that's me...and I accept me now..and whats more, others - real true friends and loved ones - do too.
That was a real head-spin for me....
You'll get there too, Nuu
D
I am shy and quiet and pretty taciturn...but that's me...and I accept me now..and whats more, others - real true friends and loved ones - do too.
That was a real head-spin for me....
You'll get there too, Nuu
D
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Love is a kind of madness.
I'm prone to sacrificing my valuables, my time and even my dignity to hold onto that feeling. But when those same feelings are knocking at my door, clamoring for attention, I hide under the bed and hold my breath until they leave. (Oh God, please make them leave!) And then I run after them frantically (in disguise, of course), wondering what I did wrong.
But that was me before the Great Fall. Now, I still feel crazy, and my dignity might still be for sale, but I leave the door open and no longer use my bed for cover.
I mean, really, after all that a recovering alcoholic or addict has been through, what's the worst thing that could happen?
I'm prone to sacrificing my valuables, my time and even my dignity to hold onto that feeling. But when those same feelings are knocking at my door, clamoring for attention, I hide under the bed and hold my breath until they leave. (Oh God, please make them leave!) And then I run after them frantically (in disguise, of course), wondering what I did wrong.
But that was me before the Great Fall. Now, I still feel crazy, and my dignity might still be for sale, but I leave the door open and no longer use my bed for cover.
I mean, really, after all that a recovering alcoholic or addict has been through, what's the worst thing that could happen?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi Nuu,
Ah, the vulnerability thing... I can share a bit about this topic. Problems with vulnerability could be described as the code of my life, sometimes in twisted binary ways: either too little or too much, being fearful about it or overwhelmingly fearless, wanting to keep distance with someone or dropping all boundaries and making them do the same ... Ironically, for me it was some of my worst drinking times and depression that managed to break down a lot of "walls" and initiate a process that I'm only really learning to cherish more than ever. And I need to keep an eye on this constantly because I'm so prone to re-building my emotional armors. Recovery certainly helps. Therapy helps. And for me, interestingly, intimacy (various forms of it) helps probably more effectively than anything else. I usually feel much more "at home" and natural at being vulnerable in 1:1 relationships than in any other area of my life, so my challenges are somewhat different in this arena if I understand yours correctly.
I do tend to have a push/pull kind of behavior though with this in all sorts of relationships including professional, friendships, relatives, lovers. I used to drive people crazy with this and I still often catch myself doing it despite being so aware of the trend now. Oh well, "that's me" as Dee said, and I also agree with Dee in that in really good and compatible personal relationships, people usually accept it especially when they get to know me better and become familiar with both the behavior and what drives it. It takes time. I find honest communication crucial to make this work (and many other things). But as you say, Nuu, it's not always easy to communicate these feelings, especially in words. Sometimes I just feel totally paralyzed and unable to describe these processes to another person. Again, what helped me more than anything in my life to break through these inhibitions was being in a long-term intimate relationships where we became so comfortable with each-other that most boundaries evaporated gradually. I discovered very early in my life that this (seeking "merging" with an intimate partner) is something that I desire and seek. I actually tended to experience the opposite problem in such scenarios, levels of intimacy so total and consuming that it had become destructive... there are certainly depths in this area that are not for the faint-of-hearth. The weird thing is that I tend to want this so much but at the same time I'm afraid of it, and this creates the characteristic push-pull tendency.
So for your story, the way I see it... It sounds like you need to progress slowly to become comfortable in this setting. It sounds like a two-fold challenge: doing it sober, and on top with a new man. Perhaps part of the current discomfort is coming from the novelty: that the two of you have not established whether or not you are a truly compatible pair or not, you are exploring this at the moment. I would probably approach it with some healthy boundaries that can be broken down gradually. For example, it's natural that he wants you to meet his friends and become part of his social circle. Kudos to you for having the courage to engage in this pub scene and resist the thoughts of drinking, despite the stress in the situation. In my opinion, that is a huge accomplishment and you should be proud! I feel for you because I can also become very uncomfortable in such situations, being pulled into meeting a bunch of strangers in a place I don't want to be at, having to do small talk etc. I sometimes struggle in these kinds of setting most intensely in my professional life. I think they call this social anxiety, which I don't usually have when the situation is my choice but I often do when it's forced upon me. Or call it being introverted. For me drinking did not really help much in the past, actually often made it worse. What tends to solve these problems for me is setting time limits. Say, two hours. And I like to be very direct and upfront about it, often in advance. Once this is set, I can usually relax in groups and with strangers, doing small talk, anything. And when the time is up, I politely thank for the event and go on my way. Honestly, I've never had problems with this approach when I am upfront about it and don't make awkward, artificial excuses - people are usually happy that I hang out and engage in the fun, and that's it. Can do it again next time. I do this all the time in work-related social life, took me a while to learn it in the past.
Now when it's something like what you describe, meeting the colleagues, friends, or relatives of my partner for the first time or first few times in the beginning, I usually anticipate a slight discomfort and would discuss it with him in advance - that's a good way to strengthen the intimate connection and getting to know each-others' weak spots... It sounds like you did that. I think you will both get used to being a bit more shy than you knew yourself in the past, and get conditioned to your new state of being with time and lose a lot of the current inhibitions and discomfort.
I admire you for starting a new relationship in your first few months of sobriety and not doing it the "wrong way"... I certainly did not go any further than making new friends so far in my ~8.5 months. You will figure out how compatible you are with this man in multiple ways as time goes by. It must be both exciting and stressful! You'll figure it out!
All the best
P.S.: Sorry about the mini novel, "vulnerability" and "intimacy" are just topics that always interest me and I have a lot to say...
Ah, the vulnerability thing... I can share a bit about this topic. Problems with vulnerability could be described as the code of my life, sometimes in twisted binary ways: either too little or too much, being fearful about it or overwhelmingly fearless, wanting to keep distance with someone or dropping all boundaries and making them do the same ... Ironically, for me it was some of my worst drinking times and depression that managed to break down a lot of "walls" and initiate a process that I'm only really learning to cherish more than ever. And I need to keep an eye on this constantly because I'm so prone to re-building my emotional armors. Recovery certainly helps. Therapy helps. And for me, interestingly, intimacy (various forms of it) helps probably more effectively than anything else. I usually feel much more "at home" and natural at being vulnerable in 1:1 relationships than in any other area of my life, so my challenges are somewhat different in this arena if I understand yours correctly.
I do tend to have a push/pull kind of behavior though with this in all sorts of relationships including professional, friendships, relatives, lovers. I used to drive people crazy with this and I still often catch myself doing it despite being so aware of the trend now. Oh well, "that's me" as Dee said, and I also agree with Dee in that in really good and compatible personal relationships, people usually accept it especially when they get to know me better and become familiar with both the behavior and what drives it. It takes time. I find honest communication crucial to make this work (and many other things). But as you say, Nuu, it's not always easy to communicate these feelings, especially in words. Sometimes I just feel totally paralyzed and unable to describe these processes to another person. Again, what helped me more than anything in my life to break through these inhibitions was being in a long-term intimate relationships where we became so comfortable with each-other that most boundaries evaporated gradually. I discovered very early in my life that this (seeking "merging" with an intimate partner) is something that I desire and seek. I actually tended to experience the opposite problem in such scenarios, levels of intimacy so total and consuming that it had become destructive... there are certainly depths in this area that are not for the faint-of-hearth. The weird thing is that I tend to want this so much but at the same time I'm afraid of it, and this creates the characteristic push-pull tendency.
So for your story, the way I see it... It sounds like you need to progress slowly to become comfortable in this setting. It sounds like a two-fold challenge: doing it sober, and on top with a new man. Perhaps part of the current discomfort is coming from the novelty: that the two of you have not established whether or not you are a truly compatible pair or not, you are exploring this at the moment. I would probably approach it with some healthy boundaries that can be broken down gradually. For example, it's natural that he wants you to meet his friends and become part of his social circle. Kudos to you for having the courage to engage in this pub scene and resist the thoughts of drinking, despite the stress in the situation. In my opinion, that is a huge accomplishment and you should be proud! I feel for you because I can also become very uncomfortable in such situations, being pulled into meeting a bunch of strangers in a place I don't want to be at, having to do small talk etc. I sometimes struggle in these kinds of setting most intensely in my professional life. I think they call this social anxiety, which I don't usually have when the situation is my choice but I often do when it's forced upon me. Or call it being introverted. For me drinking did not really help much in the past, actually often made it worse. What tends to solve these problems for me is setting time limits. Say, two hours. And I like to be very direct and upfront about it, often in advance. Once this is set, I can usually relax in groups and with strangers, doing small talk, anything. And when the time is up, I politely thank for the event and go on my way. Honestly, I've never had problems with this approach when I am upfront about it and don't make awkward, artificial excuses - people are usually happy that I hang out and engage in the fun, and that's it. Can do it again next time. I do this all the time in work-related social life, took me a while to learn it in the past.
Now when it's something like what you describe, meeting the colleagues, friends, or relatives of my partner for the first time or first few times in the beginning, I usually anticipate a slight discomfort and would discuss it with him in advance - that's a good way to strengthen the intimate connection and getting to know each-others' weak spots... It sounds like you did that. I think you will both get used to being a bit more shy than you knew yourself in the past, and get conditioned to your new state of being with time and lose a lot of the current inhibitions and discomfort.
I admire you for starting a new relationship in your first few months of sobriety and not doing it the "wrong way"... I certainly did not go any further than making new friends so far in my ~8.5 months. You will figure out how compatible you are with this man in multiple ways as time goes by. It must be both exciting and stressful! You'll figure it out!
All the best
P.S.: Sorry about the mini novel, "vulnerability" and "intimacy" are just topics that always interest me and I have a lot to say...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New york
Posts: 144
Nuudawn, I wish I could say some great imparted wisdom, you have helped me so much on my thread.. All I can think of is maybe you don't have to be vulnerable with him yet...Some times we instinctually know when a person is "safe" for us to show our vulnerable side.. If your already sensing other issues in the relationship you may just want to take it a day at a time and not be to hard on yourself.
The very fact that you recognize and are trying to decipher your actions and reactions are such a good sign that your still growing and taking ownership of your self.... good job!!
The very fact that you recognize and are trying to decipher your actions and reactions are such a good sign that your still growing and taking ownership of your self.... good job!!
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am happy you did not drink!
Figuring out where you are in all of this is tough sometimes. I think you need to give yourself a break. It's ok not to be Ms. Social Butterfly. It's ok to take the time to think about what you want to say and to say it only when you are ready.
I don't think you suck at it at all. It's awesome that you have this self awareness and feel open enough to come here to SR and discuss.
Keep moving forward with your sobriety in check. Proud of you!
Figuring out where you are in all of this is tough sometimes. I think you need to give yourself a break. It's ok not to be Ms. Social Butterfly. It's ok to take the time to think about what you want to say and to say it only when you are ready.
I don't think you suck at it at all. It's awesome that you have this self awareness and feel open enough to come here to SR and discuss.
Keep moving forward with your sobriety in check. Proud of you!
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,491
Nuudawn, it is hard to find your way and to face the emotions that come along with every day life. But, it will get easier. I, too, am quiet and reserved without alcohol in the mix, but I have to come to accept and love this about myself. I made a decision in recovery to not live in fear, but to bring all parts of myself into the light.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Somewhere on the East Coast
Posts: 579
I love this thread, thanks for posting Nuudawn and to the others that have responded. It's something that I'm dealing with too...this 'intimacy' thing...and not just in my dating/romantic relationships, but all relationships. Trying to figure out who I am and how do I fit into my relationships if I'm not the funny/loud/always ready to have a good time Lola?
No real words of wisdom but glad you posted, you are certainly not alone in your thoughts as is quite evident. Hop you're feeling less 'out of sorts' soon!
No real words of wisdom but glad you posted, you are certainly not alone in your thoughts as is quite evident. Hop you're feeling less 'out of sorts' soon!
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,887
(((NU)))
I have found that my vulnerability is one of my most cherished traits. While uncomfortable, it rips me open and exposes the parts of me I haven't yet explored. I try, very hard, to not get to attached to the feeling of "uncomfortableness" because it there is where I want to drink to escape. It just means I have more to learn.
So you aren't an expert at love and all things involved. That's great ! It means you still are growing and learning. And its honorable that you made it through sober.
Kudos to you sister for finding your strength amidst significant discomfort.
That's how muscles get built... XO AO
I have found that my vulnerability is one of my most cherished traits. While uncomfortable, it rips me open and exposes the parts of me I haven't yet explored. I try, very hard, to not get to attached to the feeling of "uncomfortableness" because it there is where I want to drink to escape. It just means I have more to learn.
So you aren't an expert at love and all things involved. That's great ! It means you still are growing and learning. And its honorable that you made it through sober.
Kudos to you sister for finding your strength amidst significant discomfort.
That's how muscles get built... XO AO
Gl@ss Artist & Cat Lady
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 880
Nuudawn...
Congratulations on staying sober under those circumstances! Not just being in a tavern but with all the emotions flowing through you now. It's tough but you're doing it... getting through... you are an AMAZING person!
Congratulations on staying sober under those circumstances! Not just being in a tavern but with all the emotions flowing through you now. It's tough but you're doing it... getting through... you are an AMAZING person!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 985
Ahhh - discomfort and vulnerability in relationship, a very familiar theme.
I too am a disaster in this arena. I tend to either be building walls of gleaming metal fortifications or handing strangers the key to my core.
I decided to follow the suggestion of not being in relationship for the first year, and then went on a date this last weekend at two months. I justified it to myself in a million ways - he is sober, it wasn't off the internet/was a real person that I knew, it was just a date/not a insta-relationship, maybe it wasn't even a date, but just two friends having a nice dinner. Huh.
It was a date. I lost some internal ground (future tripping rather than just being, wondering if he liked me rather than the other way round, and most significantly, spending hours prettifying and then feeling hurt that he didn't comment on my drop dead gorgeousness). Then I think that maybe I gained some internal ground (noticing my tendencies, actually going on a date with a real person that I liked, bravery, that I did look pretty and maybe he thinks that's just how I look and didn't feel the need to comment, etc.).
The thing I'm struggling most with this morning is that I somehow broke an intention (the not dating vow). Regardless of how much healthier this person is than the folks I've often chosen in the past, the whole production runs counter to my intention. I spent an inordinate amount of time this weekend anticipating the date, preparing for the date, going on the date, and processing my zillion feelings after the date. The whole point of not dating was to focus on myself.
Yet, one way to learn things about myself is to bravely and boldly go forth into the world, as a sober being, and experience things. Really, experience things fully. So, maybe vows aren't my best choice (except my commitment to sobriety). It is easier to be sober in an aa meeting, or while working out, or at home. In my comfortable and confident places. Learning to navigate my less comfortable environments (and dating is one) while sober is challenging, but I learned a lot about myself.
One of the main things I learned was rolled inside my justifications for going on the date in the first place. He is someone I value, and I didn't want to "miss out on the opportunity." I could well have countered the offer with a "lets be friends first. I'm not dating in my first year of sobriety," but I was afraid that he would get "snapped up" by another person in that time span and wanted my shot. A scarcity mentality. I also noticed that through all my toe nail painting frenzy as I prepped for the date, I didn't pray, or meditate for calm or guidance, or tell anyone (because I was breaking my loud vow, and so kept secretive about it).
Pacing. What I share. If I want more. If I am attractive "enough." Do I have certain aspects of myself that I am afraid to share. What do I want. Blah, blah, blah. I could hardly follow the conversation at dinner for the chaos in my head.
I know that this doesn't help much, except to say that yes, many of us are also struggling with initiating and maintaining intimate relationship in sobriety. Lots of us are single, and if you want to date there is that whole conundrum about whether dating someone who drinks will challenge your sobriety or whether dating another person in recovery will be just too much stuff and could also challenge your sobriety if they are active in your support arena and things don't work out. I don't think there are any easy answers.
You didn't drink. You felt awkward at times.
I think I've always been awkward, and drinking just allowed me to bluster through dating rituals. Sober, I'm drowning in the subtle nuance of the communications, and lots of it doesn't make sense. Dating is hard.
BUT, I also ultimately desire partnership, and somehow, some way, I'm going to have to move through dating sober to get there. I was enough of a tense/wound-up weirdo at dinner that this may have been a singular event. But it is practice.
I blew through an awful lot of "relationships" in alcoholism. I may well blow through and "fail" at many of my sober dating attempts. Oh well. I fear that if I don't try, I'll just be sitting on the side of the ice skating rink, clutching my skates, missing the fun, because I'm afraid I'll fall. I wasn't that girl drinking, and I don't want to be that girl sober. I'd rather fall on my a** a few times, and learn to skate.
I too am a disaster in this arena. I tend to either be building walls of gleaming metal fortifications or handing strangers the key to my core.
I decided to follow the suggestion of not being in relationship for the first year, and then went on a date this last weekend at two months. I justified it to myself in a million ways - he is sober, it wasn't off the internet/was a real person that I knew, it was just a date/not a insta-relationship, maybe it wasn't even a date, but just two friends having a nice dinner. Huh.
It was a date. I lost some internal ground (future tripping rather than just being, wondering if he liked me rather than the other way round, and most significantly, spending hours prettifying and then feeling hurt that he didn't comment on my drop dead gorgeousness). Then I think that maybe I gained some internal ground (noticing my tendencies, actually going on a date with a real person that I liked, bravery, that I did look pretty and maybe he thinks that's just how I look and didn't feel the need to comment, etc.).
The thing I'm struggling most with this morning is that I somehow broke an intention (the not dating vow). Regardless of how much healthier this person is than the folks I've often chosen in the past, the whole production runs counter to my intention. I spent an inordinate amount of time this weekend anticipating the date, preparing for the date, going on the date, and processing my zillion feelings after the date. The whole point of not dating was to focus on myself.
Yet, one way to learn things about myself is to bravely and boldly go forth into the world, as a sober being, and experience things. Really, experience things fully. So, maybe vows aren't my best choice (except my commitment to sobriety). It is easier to be sober in an aa meeting, or while working out, or at home. In my comfortable and confident places. Learning to navigate my less comfortable environments (and dating is one) while sober is challenging, but I learned a lot about myself.
One of the main things I learned was rolled inside my justifications for going on the date in the first place. He is someone I value, and I didn't want to "miss out on the opportunity." I could well have countered the offer with a "lets be friends first. I'm not dating in my first year of sobriety," but I was afraid that he would get "snapped up" by another person in that time span and wanted my shot. A scarcity mentality. I also noticed that through all my toe nail painting frenzy as I prepped for the date, I didn't pray, or meditate for calm or guidance, or tell anyone (because I was breaking my loud vow, and so kept secretive about it).
Pacing. What I share. If I want more. If I am attractive "enough." Do I have certain aspects of myself that I am afraid to share. What do I want. Blah, blah, blah. I could hardly follow the conversation at dinner for the chaos in my head.
I know that this doesn't help much, except to say that yes, many of us are also struggling with initiating and maintaining intimate relationship in sobriety. Lots of us are single, and if you want to date there is that whole conundrum about whether dating someone who drinks will challenge your sobriety or whether dating another person in recovery will be just too much stuff and could also challenge your sobriety if they are active in your support arena and things don't work out. I don't think there are any easy answers.
You didn't drink. You felt awkward at times.
I think I've always been awkward, and drinking just allowed me to bluster through dating rituals. Sober, I'm drowning in the subtle nuance of the communications, and lots of it doesn't make sense. Dating is hard.
BUT, I also ultimately desire partnership, and somehow, some way, I'm going to have to move through dating sober to get there. I was enough of a tense/wound-up weirdo at dinner that this may have been a singular event. But it is practice.
I blew through an awful lot of "relationships" in alcoholism. I may well blow through and "fail" at many of my sober dating attempts. Oh well. I fear that if I don't try, I'll just be sitting on the side of the ice skating rink, clutching my skates, missing the fun, because I'm afraid I'll fall. I wasn't that girl drinking, and I don't want to be that girl sober. I'd rather fall on my a** a few times, and learn to skate.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Somewhere on the East Coast
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC 
Love is a kind of madness.
I'm prone to sacrificing my valuables, my time and even my dignity to hold onto that feeling. But when those same feelings are knocking at my door, clamoring for attention, I hide under the bed and hold my breath until they leave. (Oh God, please make them leave!) And then I run after them frantically (in disguise, of course), wondering what I did wrong. ?
I'm prone to sacrificing my valuables, my time and even my dignity to hold onto that feeling. But when those same feelings are knocking at my door, clamoring for attention, I hide under the bed and hold my breath until they leave. (Oh God, please make them leave!) And then I run after them frantically (in disguise, of course), wondering what I did wrong. ?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12
OH, how I can relate! The early stages of relationships can be a special form of hell, a strange kind of joyous hell, but still a hell. If both of you are right for each other, then it will get easier over time, but the beginning part, where you are still unsure of each other, can be very difficult if you have intimacy issues.
I know that in the past I've used alcohol to open up - and like others here have mentioned, I tend to OPEN up. The "let's get drunk together and spill it all" rite of initiation has been my pattern, and I am having trouble even conceiving of entering into a relationship without that option. So kudos to you!!!
Hopefully he understands that you are newly sober and that maintaining this is important to you? If he took you to a pub to meet his friends, I wonder if he has really grasped it?
One of these comments really hit home. The fact that you are uncomfortable and that this is a bit painful are maybe growing pains, signs that you are expanding, and how wonderful is that?? So much better than hiding behind a fog of booze. Having said that, sometimes what feels like growing pains (in my experience) is an inner voice telling you that there is something wrong. I've always had trouble distinguishing between what is just my natural fear of opening up, and what is actually a part of me telling me that something just isn't right in this relationship. With disastrous consequences. Another advantage of not drinking, I think - hopefully distinguishing between the two is easier with a sober psyche.
Congrats that you didn't drink! Take it slow, and maybe let him know that going to a pub right now is not good for you. If that's a problem for him, if his social life revolves around the pub, then maybe he's not the right person for you, right now. I have no idea, just a thought.
I know that in the past I've used alcohol to open up - and like others here have mentioned, I tend to OPEN up. The "let's get drunk together and spill it all" rite of initiation has been my pattern, and I am having trouble even conceiving of entering into a relationship without that option. So kudos to you!!!
Hopefully he understands that you are newly sober and that maintaining this is important to you? If he took you to a pub to meet his friends, I wonder if he has really grasped it?
One of these comments really hit home. The fact that you are uncomfortable and that this is a bit painful are maybe growing pains, signs that you are expanding, and how wonderful is that?? So much better than hiding behind a fog of booze. Having said that, sometimes what feels like growing pains (in my experience) is an inner voice telling you that there is something wrong. I've always had trouble distinguishing between what is just my natural fear of opening up, and what is actually a part of me telling me that something just isn't right in this relationship. With disastrous consequences. Another advantage of not drinking, I think - hopefully distinguishing between the two is easier with a sober psyche.
Congrats that you didn't drink! Take it slow, and maybe let him know that going to a pub right now is not good for you. If that's a problem for him, if his social life revolves around the pub, then maybe he's not the right person for you, right now. I have no idea, just a thought.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by heartcore
I spent an inordinate amount of time this weekend anticipating the date, preparing for the date, going on the date, and processing my zillion feelings after the date.
One could argue that all the excess energy that accompanies such events helps us to prepare for the date, get through the date, and then process all the frenetic activity and the overwhelming quality of the emotional data that comes with it. How else to survive such rituals? Evolution -- survival of the fittest -- on full display.
After a certain age, we've all been on dates where we settle for our "B" game before we go, expecting (hoping?) that this will be just another inconvenient and unscheduled interruption in our daily routine, praying that we only get through the ordeal with our dignity intact and no more. I've sat there making deals with the Devil to ensure that my date doesn't order dessert or coffee, and that the server has the check ready in perfect coincidence with the delivery of the main course, guaranteeing a hefty tip as insurance. And I know that a similar narrative applies to some of the women I've dated.
There has also been, of course, the mutually acknowledged sentiment that "this isn't going anywhere so let's just go our separate ways before things turn violent" agreement. And the occasional "I don't like anything about you, and now I have to struggle with hating my best friend for the rest of the night for introducing us" vibe.
In my case, and due to my profession, I've had women ask whether or not I'm analyzing them, interpreting what they say, checking out their body language, reading their minds...The answer, of course, is a resounding "Yes," since I was a psychologist long before my formal education and training. (After all, isn't she doing the same thing?) Yet, in person, I'm very down to earth, have an easy smile, and am both warm and welcoming. (Maybe I should register on match.com?) Some people just never get past my profession. Or my particular way of keeping things hidden about myself that I'd rather they not know at the moment.
There was the woman I knew from my being among Central Park's dedicated rollerbladers/skaters, who bared her chest at a party I attended (I wasn't drinking at the time, though she clearly was), and who a coupla weeks later asked me out. I suggested a baseball game since she'd never been, but my motive was more about being surrounded by fifty thousand strangers should things go sideways. (That and, I knew things about her from her stripping that I don't ordinarily know on a first date.) Well, I picked her up following her therapy session -- one might have imagined that she'd just been tossed down a flight of stairs, run over by a bus, and then dragged several blocks -- and then listened to her go on about her last/current/on-again/off-again relationship for about six innings. I erected a soundproof glass booth around myself after inning number two, and she mercifully suggested that we leave early, after inning number seven.
At a time when I was in group therapy, another member of the group invited me to her 40th birthday party, along with the other group members. I met her alcoholic mother who was delightfully drunk (not glorifying here; just the honesty of my part of the experience), and the woman who actually helped my friend organize the party, Michelle. I spoke with Michelle and a few other people that night, and my exchanges were largely unremarkable. But there was one woman I met who I knew nothing about, and who had a wicked sense of humor, despite her ability to quote Kierkegaard and Nietzsche. I loved her narrations about who was who at the party, who was sleeping with whom, and just her easy way about herself. She was Grace Kelly and more. (What's more than Grace Kelly?)
The woman who invited me to the party told me the next day that this woman was interested in me as well, and that she wanted to arrange a date. "Whaddya know? I actually can win the lottery!" So we meet for dinner at a local restaurant and...my heart not only dropped, but splattered. My birthday friend and I had inexplicably gotten our signals crossed; it was the party organizer who wanted the date, Michelle, and not Grace Kelly. At that moment, my entire evening changed from excitement and anticipation to a sense of dread, that this was not going to work out well at all. Sure enough, needed my soundproof booth again, although I suspect that this time she brought it along with her, and then inserted me into it, ensuring that she wouldn't need to waste her time attending to any thoughts that may have escaped from my now-preoccupied mind, ultimately making their way to my lips.
She insisted that we sit at the bar. No big deal, except that we needed to turn around whenever the urge for eye contact presented itself, which ultimately turned out to be a disguised blessing. A couple of hours of hearing about how she and her husband endured his long and protracted illness before succumbing to it over a year ago. (Dating tip: Don't talk about dead husbands on your first date.) Sadly, this was not the quickest "first contact" in my history.
In both cases, it's arguable that neither woman would have noticed that I'd evacuated my seat or that I'd evacuated my bladder during their well-practiced monologues. This not a criticism of women or of dating. It's more of an allegory on how we protect ourselves when we're feeling vulnerable and how we defend ourselves against intimacy generally.
One more thing...Years ago, Carly Simon lived in my neighborhood. I love Carly Simon. (She's got a remarkable life story that many here, I think, would be able to identify with, including tremendous social anxiety and what we refer to as "stage fright.") I was out grocery shopping, and I saw her in the produce section. I introduced myself and told her how I admired her work. I also asked her to have dinner with me, explaining that I knew that she couldn't or wouldn't, and that it was wildly inappropriate for me to ask, but that I'd then be able to tell people that Carly Simon turned me down for a date.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
Thank you all so very, very much for these responses..each and every one. I didn't think I was articulating what I really needed to..but based on these responses I did. Your empathies and insights and resonance was exactly what I needed because yes..I am scared and confused and yes, I don't know what should be credited to new relationship and fear..or early sobriety...or inklings of incompatibility. No idea. And only time will tell. But it sure helps to be heard and understood. At times..reading these responses I was overcome with emotion..there were emotional aches pulling in my heart... thank you.
For those who raised concern about whether his life is "all about the pubs" ..no, not at all. He is a busy, productive member of society..really busy. And ya know, I guess sometimes that nags at me too...
I've been in a drunken coma for decades..whereas he has been busy "doing" ya know...
And yes, sometimes I feel insecure and perhaps "not good enough"...ah hell..this is just a big ole ball of fun.
Thank you all..thank you so very much.
For those who raised concern about whether his life is "all about the pubs" ..no, not at all. He is a busy, productive member of society..really busy. And ya know, I guess sometimes that nags at me too...
I've been in a drunken coma for decades..whereas he has been busy "doing" ya know...
And yes, sometimes I feel insecure and perhaps "not good enough"...ah hell..this is just a big ole ball of fun.
Thank you all..thank you so very much.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Nuu, you don't strike me as someone who "sucks" at being vulnerable. Not on SR anyway, although of course virtual reality can be a whole alternate dimension. There is no intimacy without being vulnerable and sometimes in pain. Also, confidence and "being good enough" are not always the most interesting traits in someone, far from it in my world at least. I think many people find a little shyness, enigmatic behavior, and someone who sends signals that are not easy to read, very intriguing. Again, I certainly do in others (while of course I can be pissed if I am insecure myself), and many guys I've known think alike about this. Plus, being a little awkward, nervous, and not always knowing what to do does show off vulnerability and I think that can be pretty irresistible for many people who like genuine attitude. Alpha males and females are highly overrated!
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