My experiment - haha
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: North East England
Posts: 99
I didn't think your post was so bad golden. You're just sharing your experience, that's what this place is for. So long as your not encouraging others to drink or glorifying it I don't see the problem. You admitted you cannot regulate your intake and admitted you have a problem. So long as you learn from that and it helps you to not drink. Good luck and welcome, I'm sure you'll find people here aren't really a bad bunch at all. Everyone wants to help.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,384
Golden,
I'm sorry for any upset you feel, and I hope you'll stick around
But I also hope, in time, you'll see this thread in a different light and come to understand where the majority of the responses are coming from.
D
I'm sorry for any upset you feel, and I hope you'll stick around
But I also hope, in time, you'll see this thread in a different light and come to understand where the majority of the responses are coming from.
D
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Originally Posted by golden1987 
I want to add that there was no psychological reason underlying my decision to do this. I am not inclined to add up sober days like pearls on a string, and then return to day one if/when I stumble.
Perhaps to some here, this isn't a great way of thinking of it, but it seems more positive to me to say, "I have drank once in the past fourteen days," which is huge considering I have come from drinking every day to every-other day to three times a week and am now deciding never to drink again.
Perhaps to some here, this isn't a great way of thinking of it, but it seems more positive to me to say, "I have drank once in the past fourteen days," which is huge considering I have come from drinking every day to every-other day to three times a week and am now deciding never to drink again.
yes, it is more positive to say "i have drank once in the past fourteen days" than to say "i drank again".
it is more "positive" because it sounds...hm, more trivial. not serious. flippant, almost.
it's something casual, something a non-alcoholic might do or say about their drinking.
it is the truth as far as facts go, but the perspective of seeing it this particular way is not the same for a "normal" drinker as it would be for me.
if i, as an alcoholi who's just started my ninth year were to drink again tonight, then tomorrow there would be this fact: fini drank once in eight years. not bad, yeah?
no biggie, right? in fact, wow, what a great accomplishment, look at all those days!
but since i'm an alcoholic, and since i'm into the ongoing sobriety thing, if i drank tonight, tomorrow i'd be devastated. something would have gone seriously wrong! something would have been seriously insufficient or absent that would have gotten me past tonight without drinking.
it would be a disaster.
okay, that's me.
i lived the disaster of many returns to drinking, and many i shrugged off. but the desperation of seemingly being unable to stick with sobriety was growing with every attempt. as was the resignation when i couldn't. sure, sometimes (and i have this written in my journal in blue and white) i'd say"sigh, oh well, six days is waaayyy better than the three i managed last time!", but then there would be the "why can't i can't i can't i do this?????????" and "AGAIN! oh ****!"
perspective, honesty with self.
what i see in the posts you got was honesty, and perspective from people who've done what you describe. nothing judgmental or negative. a desire to share the perspective of how it really was, and how we can see it now, after the rosy glasses came off for us.
people are sharing, i think, in the hope of giving you something of value.
if it's of no use to you, that's okay.
10/03/2014
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 78
Stick around Golden.
I learned long ago that most people on this sight truly care about others. I also learned that people don't hold back. Atleast in my case I am told what I NEED to hear, not what I want to hear. In fact I posted today, after much deliberation with myself, because I wasn't sure I wanted to hear what I knew I would, which is exactly what i needed to hear. Hope that makes sense!!
Just know people mean well. We just challenge each other to be honest with ourselves.
(Hope this makes you feel better, not worse)
I learned long ago that most people on this sight truly care about others. I also learned that people don't hold back. Atleast in my case I am told what I NEED to hear, not what I want to hear. In fact I posted today, after much deliberation with myself, because I wasn't sure I wanted to hear what I knew I would, which is exactly what i needed to hear. Hope that makes sense!!
Just know people mean well. We just challenge each other to be honest with ourselves.
(Hope this makes you feel better, not worse)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nutmegger
Posts: 1,799
golden..there is a good current thread right now on the family and friends forum in which members are sharing what they felt like when the first posted and how they felt about the responses. I think you might identify with the feelings that are shared.
I signed up here at SR in December of 2012. I was half-heartedly sober for a month but even reading posts here made me want to run anywhere because I so did not want to be part of this crowd. It made me really agitated and uncomfortable.
I finally got sober the following June. I went inpatient and when I got back it was shocking how the exact same group of people elicited a very different reaction in me. I realized that I had stumbled upon the others who were part of the same subset, nondrinkers in a drinking world.
I think it takes guts to be honest about drinking. However, I would caution you about getting stuck on "the bridge". It is that awful place where you have a foot in each camp and are really not committed to either side. What I have seen happen is that people get comfortable relapsing, when it really isn't a relapse at all. They have simply shifted their drinking patterns. I think they run the risk of feeling that since they are doing something different they are somehow mitigating "how bad it was".
I am not trying to label you anything. However your original post seems to outline the dialogue any one of us have had. A lot of times what might feel like criticism directed at you is really criticism directed at your AV. We are often better at swatting down other people's AV than our own, simply because we have a less entangled perspective.
I really hope you stick around. I have brought problems here and asked for help and opinions and I have literally felt like I had a mini camper filled with SR peeps on my shoulder. And if you do have a drinking problem like me, it is so much easier to close the door on that chapter of your life. I know it is hard to believe but fully committing to leaving alcohol behind is nowhere near as difficult as straddling the bridge. It is great that you are sharing, keep it up.
I signed up here at SR in December of 2012. I was half-heartedly sober for a month but even reading posts here made me want to run anywhere because I so did not want to be part of this crowd. It made me really agitated and uncomfortable.
I finally got sober the following June. I went inpatient and when I got back it was shocking how the exact same group of people elicited a very different reaction in me. I realized that I had stumbled upon the others who were part of the same subset, nondrinkers in a drinking world.
I think it takes guts to be honest about drinking. However, I would caution you about getting stuck on "the bridge". It is that awful place where you have a foot in each camp and are really not committed to either side. What I have seen happen is that people get comfortable relapsing, when it really isn't a relapse at all. They have simply shifted their drinking patterns. I think they run the risk of feeling that since they are doing something different they are somehow mitigating "how bad it was".
I am not trying to label you anything. However your original post seems to outline the dialogue any one of us have had. A lot of times what might feel like criticism directed at you is really criticism directed at your AV. We are often better at swatting down other people's AV than our own, simply because we have a less entangled perspective.
I really hope you stick around. I have brought problems here and asked for help and opinions and I have literally felt like I had a mini camper filled with SR peeps on my shoulder. And if you do have a drinking problem like me, it is so much easier to close the door on that chapter of your life. I know it is hard to believe but fully committing to leaving alcohol behind is nowhere near as difficult as straddling the bridge. It is great that you are sharing, keep it up.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by Thomasthetank
I conducted these kinds of experiments for over ten years. I conclusively proved that one addictive personality plus alcohol equals one ruined life.
Just me having a dark sense of humour I suppose.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
What I have seen happen is that people get comfortable relapsing, when it really isn't a relapse at all. They have simply shifted their drinking patterns. I think they run the risk of feeling that since they are doing something different they are somehow mitigating "how bad it was".
ah yes, such a good point and reminder.
it's certainly familiar to me
ah yes, such a good point and reminder.
it's certainly familiar to me
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 355
As Hawks pointed out, this is the recommended experiment in the Big Book. One cannot make a commitment to sobriety until one is fully convinced it's necessary.
So. . . she questioned, she experimented, she learned something very, very valuable. She shared because she thought it might make a difference.
So. . . she questioned, she experimented, she learned something very, very valuable. She shared because she thought it might make a difference.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Most of these posts are not critical of you, but of your behaviour. That's a good thing, because behaviour is something you can change. And to those posters who criticized you, shame on them.
Now, about this 'deciding' thing. What does this mean? You have decided, or you are about to decide, or you are fixin' to decide, or you will decide? Which one of these will change your behaviour?
You can do this, Golden, and it is worth it, boy is it worth it. It's worth it because without doing this, all of it is worth nothing. Let's decide, and do the next thing, OK?
Originally Posted by golden1987
I have come from drinking every day to every-other day to three times a week and am now deciding never to drink again.
You can do this, Golden, and it is worth it, boy is it worth it. It's worth it because without doing this, all of it is worth nothing. Let's decide, and do the next thing, OK?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
The negative responses are mainly because most of us spent a long time... Years, even decades, conducting experiments and turning justifications and rationalizations around in our minds.
We blew many good years of our lives on such pursuits - all the while deepening our alcoholism.
These are the responses we wish we'd listened to.
It's because we don't want to see you continue to suffer, like we did.
I myself wish I'd have heard and / or listened to such words at least 20 years ago.
I eventually found, when I was finally able to look honesty, that my experiments were all just attempts to prove to myself I wasn't an alcoholic. So I could keep on drinking.
If you are an alcoholic like me, this will only get worse, harder and more negative to your life the longer you continue to 'experiment'
We blew many good years of our lives on such pursuits - all the while deepening our alcoholism.
These are the responses we wish we'd listened to.
It's because we don't want to see you continue to suffer, like we did.
I myself wish I'd have heard and / or listened to such words at least 20 years ago.
I eventually found, when I was finally able to look honesty, that my experiments were all just attempts to prove to myself I wasn't an alcoholic. So I could keep on drinking.
If you are an alcoholic like me, this will only get worse, harder and more negative to your life the longer you continue to 'experiment'
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by golden1987
I cannot begin to tell you all how glad I am this did not occur in a "real life" AA meeting
as it has caused much more harm than the supposed "support" this group claims to offer.
if it wasn't for them folks at the tables of AA callin out on my delusional, insane, and rationalizing thinkin, I wouldn't have seen that my thinking was insane, delusional, and rationalizing.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 349
Here's my two cents, for what it's worth golden1987:
Addictions map to your brain. There is scientific proof on this and that is my theory as to why once you are used to drinking 7 beers (or whatever) it is very hard to just drink 2. Your brain never forgets the usual amount you drink and in no time, you are up to drinking the same 7 you always drank before. (This is the same for smokers and other addictions as well. All your brain map.)
My other theory in relation to mind-altering substances only (liquor, drugs) is that once you get slightly drunk, you don't care about whether you just "drank 2" because you are no longer thinking straight (drunk) and you just go ahead and have more.
I have done the same as you and have truly put some thought into why we get drunk when perhaps we just want 2 drinks and while the first part is scientifically true, the second also comes into play ... and this is why "just 2" is nearly impossible.
Anyhow, my two cents on it.
Addictions map to your brain. There is scientific proof on this and that is my theory as to why once you are used to drinking 7 beers (or whatever) it is very hard to just drink 2. Your brain never forgets the usual amount you drink and in no time, you are up to drinking the same 7 you always drank before. (This is the same for smokers and other addictions as well. All your brain map.)
My other theory in relation to mind-altering substances only (liquor, drugs) is that once you get slightly drunk, you don't care about whether you just "drank 2" because you are no longer thinking straight (drunk) and you just go ahead and have more.
I have done the same as you and have truly put some thought into why we get drunk when perhaps we just want 2 drinks and while the first part is scientifically true, the second also comes into play ... and this is why "just 2" is nearly impossible.
Anyhow, my two cents on it.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 349
Or ... if you find the brain mapping analogy confusing ... put it this way ... once you learn how to ride a bike you will ALWAYS know how to ride a bike because it is impossible to "unlearn" something. The same is true for addictions.
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Please adhere to our Mandate:
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The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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We don't normally remove threads, unless is spam, trolling or some kind of security risk etc.
It's not fair to all our members who've taken time to post here.
You can PM Anna or me if you want it closed
D
It's not fair to all our members who've taken time to post here.
You can PM Anna or me if you want it closed
D
time to shine again
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 40
[QUOTE=Dee74;4953121]
It's not fair to all our members who've taken time to post here.
Dee,
I have sent you a private message requesting that this thread be removed.
While I appreciate your concern for the "fairness" to members who have taken the time to post, and also appreciate where some of the more vitriolic statements are coming from; the fact is the OP was intended to share a happy moment for me; that I had learned something about my relationship with alcohol, that I learned at what point it affects my body and when I become powerless over the AV. Instead, I received a great deal of negative response and judgement.
This doesn't seem to me to be a very positive way to offer support to people who are just learning about where they are on the spectrum of alcoholism.
I've received some very kind and supportive private messages in light of the nasty responses, and to those people, I am deeply grateful.
It's not fair to all our members who've taken time to post here.
Dee,
I have sent you a private message requesting that this thread be removed.
While I appreciate your concern for the "fairness" to members who have taken the time to post, and also appreciate where some of the more vitriolic statements are coming from; the fact is the OP was intended to share a happy moment for me; that I had learned something about my relationship with alcohol, that I learned at what point it affects my body and when I become powerless over the AV. Instead, I received a great deal of negative response and judgement.
This doesn't seem to me to be a very positive way to offer support to people who are just learning about where they are on the spectrum of alcoholism.
I've received some very kind and supportive private messages in light of the nasty responses, and to those people, I am deeply grateful.
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