The Big Caffeine Thread
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
I aim for moderation with regards to caffeine.
As with most things, too much of anything is a problem.
We have instincts for food and drink {obviously excluding alcoholic drinks, as I cannot moderate } and so moderation is key in all other aspects of life.
The seven deadly sins are reflective of our instincts.
But are 'deadly' when the instinct becomes all consuming and excessive.
Ie: we need food to survive... Instinct
Vs I eat far in excess of my instinctual needs.... Gluttony
The price for gluttony is obesity and all that goes with it. Digestive problems, low energy levels, mood swings, poor self esteem etc etc.
Gluttony in caffeine consumption would result in mood swings, anxiety, insomnia, rapid pulse, and taken too extremes can cause heart arythmia. It acts upon the central nervous system and taken in excessive amounts, begins to fray and damage the cns.
In short, if you enjoy coffee and other caffeinated beverages, have a few, just don't have a few too many.
As with most things, too much of anything is a problem.
We have instincts for food and drink {obviously excluding alcoholic drinks, as I cannot moderate } and so moderation is key in all other aspects of life.
The seven deadly sins are reflective of our instincts.
But are 'deadly' when the instinct becomes all consuming and excessive.
Ie: we need food to survive... Instinct
Vs I eat far in excess of my instinctual needs.... Gluttony
The price for gluttony is obesity and all that goes with it. Digestive problems, low energy levels, mood swings, poor self esteem etc etc.
Gluttony in caffeine consumption would result in mood swings, anxiety, insomnia, rapid pulse, and taken too extremes can cause heart arythmia. It acts upon the central nervous system and taken in excessive amounts, begins to fray and damage the cns.
In short, if you enjoy coffee and other caffeinated beverages, have a few, just don't have a few too many.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 9,029
I drink decaf. I used to drink caffeinated everything but I scaled way back. At night it keeps me from sleeping. If I drink too much coffee, smoke too many cigarettes (a topic for another thread) and don't eat, it ramps my anxiety up and it triggers urges to drink to make it go away.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: California
Posts: 2,693
When I was actively drinking I completely stopped drinking coffee for about a year. Waking up shaking and sick I just couldn't stomach the stuff. Now that I've been sober for a few months I have started drinking coffee again and it is sheer heaven. I only drink about 20 ounces and stop at 9 am.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 276
I think tea has different effects on the body than coffee. I can't drink coffee, it gives me an adrenaline surge and makes me feel jittery, anxious, stressed, also gives me very poor quality sleep (even coffee in AM only) definitely feel the stress hormones rise when I drink the stuff.
Tea on the other hand, I can drink 8 cups a day right up to bedtime and I have no problems. I read that tea contains an amino acid called "l-theanine", it is said to counteract the effects of caffeine by increasing the alpha waves in the brain giving you a relaxed yet alert state. Rather than the adrenaline/cortisol rush you get with coffee leaving you with a midday crash leaving you tired and irritable, tea with caffeine, l-theanine work in synergy to give to a more stable, gentle lift without the crash.
I also read one study a few years ago that found black tea has properties that actually lower cortisol/stress, participants drank either real tea or a " tea substitute " that had the caffeine but without the compounds of black tea, 50 minutes after a stressful situation the black tea groups cortisol lowered by 47℅ where as the placebo groups cortisol levels lowered by 27℅, so I think tea helps you recover from stress quicker.
Tea on the other hand, I can drink 8 cups a day right up to bedtime and I have no problems. I read that tea contains an amino acid called "l-theanine", it is said to counteract the effects of caffeine by increasing the alpha waves in the brain giving you a relaxed yet alert state. Rather than the adrenaline/cortisol rush you get with coffee leaving you with a midday crash leaving you tired and irritable, tea with caffeine, l-theanine work in synergy to give to a more stable, gentle lift without the crash.
I also read one study a few years ago that found black tea has properties that actually lower cortisol/stress, participants drank either real tea or a " tea substitute " that had the caffeine but without the compounds of black tea, 50 minutes after a stressful situation the black tea groups cortisol lowered by 47℅ where as the placebo groups cortisol levels lowered by 27℅, so I think tea helps you recover from stress quicker.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Originally Posted by Hobbers 
Give up water, air, sex, sleeping, and waking up now- You are sober now, and all of those things are also physically addictive...
I will resist the urge to say 'gimme a break' since this is the newcomers section, so I will just say this-
If YOU can't/don't want to drink caffeine, don't.
Folks that say that the day they quit drinking/heroin/whatever, AND quit smoking, coffee, soda and tea the same day don't inspire me- They terrify me, because I think that they are making a ridiculously hard thing infinitely harder on themselves, and setting themselves up to fail.
I will resist the urge to say 'gimme a break' since this is the newcomers section, so I will just say this-
If YOU can't/don't want to drink caffeine, don't.
Folks that say that the day they quit drinking/heroin/whatever, AND quit smoking, coffee, soda and tea the same day don't inspire me- They terrify me, because I think that they are making a ridiculously hard thing infinitely harder on themselves, and setting themselves up to fail.
The thing is, it DOES have some side effects for people. Mine were extreme, but I can tell you, I'm not one for drama, but the effects were clear and shocking to me.
If you haven't had that experience, then great. I think the aim of the thread was to discuss the pros and cons, perhaps raise awareness.
People shouldn't have to apologise for their bad experiences with coffee, if they've had them. So yes, you did post your "gimme a break", and it was offensive.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
I think like anything else, caffeine is okay in moderation. I drink 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning because I really enjoy it and like the alertness it gives me. I am a super heavy sleeper and it helps me wake up. If that's addiction, so be it. Unless it really started affecting my health adversely, I'm not giving it up. The times that I have overdone it I got crippling anxiety, so I know better than to have more that my usual in the morning.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by Meraviglioso
I only drink coffee, no sodas or caffeinated teas. I have noticed that now that I am not drinking I am more sensitive to the caffeine as I have less to balance out I would guess.
I drink about 2 cups of percolated Italian style coffee in the morning (I think it would be like ordering a cafe latte at starbucks). Very occasionally I will have an espresso after lunch, I'd say once every couple of weeks. Very, very rarely I have one after dinner. Generally I cannot drink any caffeine after 16:00 or I can't sleep, this was also when I was drinking heavily.
When I was drinking I drank much more coffee, probably 2-3 cups in the morning and maybe 1 or 2 more throughout the day.
I haven't thought too much of the negative aspects of caffeine, I suppose I should. I am more worried about sugar, which I eat little of but don't deny myself.
Several years ago I cut out the sugar in my coffee. The first day it was horrible. The very next day, it was ok. By the third day it was great and I could never go back to drinking coffee with sugar in it. I couldn't believe how easy it was to cut out those daily spoonfuls.
I drink about 2 cups of percolated Italian style coffee in the morning (I think it would be like ordering a cafe latte at starbucks). Very occasionally I will have an espresso after lunch, I'd say once every couple of weeks. Very, very rarely I have one after dinner. Generally I cannot drink any caffeine after 16:00 or I can't sleep, this was also when I was drinking heavily.
When I was drinking I drank much more coffee, probably 2-3 cups in the morning and maybe 1 or 2 more throughout the day.
I haven't thought too much of the negative aspects of caffeine, I suppose I should. I am more worried about sugar, which I eat little of but don't deny myself.
Several years ago I cut out the sugar in my coffee. The first day it was horrible. The very next day, it was ok. By the third day it was great and I could never go back to drinking coffee with sugar in it. I couldn't believe how easy it was to cut out those daily spoonfuls.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
This thread has me cypherin'. I'm stopping at 3/4 pot this morning and will attempt iced-tealessness this afternoon. I don't care for soda or carbonated drinks but will drink an energy drink for the caffeine. It's Addictive behavior and I have heart markers in my recent labs to consider. The last 3 times I've mowed the lawn I've experienced arrythmia-like episodes. I'm always telling my kids to drink more water and they never see me doing it. Thanks
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
I told myself I'd have just one coffee today.
I have had three.
I cannot stop!!!
My hands are cold.... sweaty. My pulse is elevated.
I suspect my testosterone is being impaired by chronically high levels of cortisol and adrenaline.
I want to reduce or stop drinking coffee.
I don't want to reduce or stop drinking coffee.
I am a freaking SLAVE to it, but yet I love it.
I hate some of the symptoms that I'm convinced are associated directly with caffeine.
I hate the symptoms I get when I try to reduce or quit caffeine.
I go to sleep at night with intentions set.
In the morning, I walk like a zombie to the coffee maker.... go to the coffee shop... go back to the pot.....
I have had three.
I cannot stop!!!
My hands are cold.... sweaty. My pulse is elevated.
I suspect my testosterone is being impaired by chronically high levels of cortisol and adrenaline.
I want to reduce or stop drinking coffee.
I don't want to reduce or stop drinking coffee.
I am a freaking SLAVE to it, but yet I love it.
I hate some of the symptoms that I'm convinced are associated directly with caffeine.
I hate the symptoms I get when I try to reduce or quit caffeine.
I go to sleep at night with intentions set.
In the morning, I walk like a zombie to the coffee maker.... go to the coffee shop... go back to the pot.....
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 611
I have about 12 cups of coffee per day, strong ones too....I have my first 6.00 am before my morning run and last at about 11pm before I drift instantly into a dreamless unbroken sleep
Maybe coffee just agrees with me, done the same for years, apart from didn't drink coffee after work because was drinking, probably still drunk 8 or 9 during the day at work.
Maybe coffee just agrees with me, done the same for years, apart from didn't drink coffee after work because was drinking, probably still drunk 8 or 9 during the day at work.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
yeah.... that was me for a lot of years too....
I think it just maybe finally caught up to me.
or - maybe it's not at all related to caffeine and I'm just a mess for some other reason.
But the few little periods where I've reduced or cut out caffeine the issues seemed improved.... so.....
my theory is that it is cumulative. it reaches a tipping point.
I think it just maybe finally caught up to me.
or - maybe it's not at all related to caffeine and I'm just a mess for some other reason.
But the few little periods where I've reduced or cut out caffeine the issues seemed improved.... so.....
my theory is that it is cumulative. it reaches a tipping point.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
FreeOwl... try cutting back just one cup per day. The trick for me was to get myself interested in drinking teas. So I'd have the tea on hand for when I reached my coffee limit for the day. There's a very good cinnamon tea I can recommend, if you're interested It is so good you won't want any sugar.
It is so good you won't want any sugar.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 611
FreeOwl - I think if you're as worried about it as you seem you should quit for the sake of you're sanity.
Start tapering off to decaf and you should be fine, studies have shown that caffeine is easily flushed out of your system and only mildly addictive. For the habitual side decaf would give you your substitute.
Also when you mentioned heart rate in my experience it's only very briefly it elevates heart rate, I can do my heart rate just after a coffee and it's up but within ten minutes it's back down to normal levels.
I think some of us alcoholics are addicted to being addicted and see big horrible addictions we'll have to overcome lurking around every corner.
Start tapering off to decaf and you should be fine, studies have shown that caffeine is easily flushed out of your system and only mildly addictive. For the habitual side decaf would give you your substitute.
Also when you mentioned heart rate in my experience it's only very briefly it elevates heart rate, I can do my heart rate just after a coffee and it's up but within ten minutes it's back down to normal levels.
I think some of us alcoholics are addicted to being addicted and see big horrible addictions we'll have to overcome lurking around every corner.
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
yeah..... I don't actually think I'm just being alarmist. This is pretty consistent and has been an issue for some time.
The obvious thing is to cut back. Or quit. Just like you and others have suggested and just like I've been telling myself to do for the better part of 5 years.
But as obvious as that is, as much as I hate the feelings and the impact.....
I keep doing it.
I'm just like the alcoholic who keeps on saying "I have an issue and I want to cut back / quit" but who keeps on getting drunk every night.... here I am with coffee.
This morning, I had one cup of coffee. Within about 35 minutes my hands were frigid and sweating and my chest felt tense.
"Screw it. I already had coffee and I'm already having these issues again. May as well have more".
I bought a bag of half-caff beans this morning. I'm going to try tapering that way. One never seems to be enough and I think it's more the ritual of sipping the hot beverage and the taste of coffee that I'm having the hardest time weaning from.... maybe if I have half-caff I can have 2 cups and feel satisfied but still be reducing my intake.
Which sounds an awful lot, to me, like saying "Maybe if I just start drinking beer instead of whiskey....."
blergh.
The obvious thing is to cut back. Or quit. Just like you and others have suggested and just like I've been telling myself to do for the better part of 5 years.
But as obvious as that is, as much as I hate the feelings and the impact.....
I keep doing it.
I'm just like the alcoholic who keeps on saying "I have an issue and I want to cut back / quit" but who keeps on getting drunk every night.... here I am with coffee.
This morning, I had one cup of coffee. Within about 35 minutes my hands were frigid and sweating and my chest felt tense.
"Screw it. I already had coffee and I'm already having these issues again. May as well have more".
I bought a bag of half-caff beans this morning. I'm going to try tapering that way. One never seems to be enough and I think it's more the ritual of sipping the hot beverage and the taste of coffee that I'm having the hardest time weaning from.... maybe if I have half-caff I can have 2 cups and feel satisfied but still be reducing my intake.
Which sounds an awful lot, to me, like saying "Maybe if I just start drinking beer instead of whiskey....."
blergh.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 94
I have given up smoking and recently drinking; also eat healthy and exercise five to six days a week. I look forward to my mornings with a good cup of coffee or three and will probably never give that up. A girl can't be expected to give up all her vices. 
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 638
Drinking more water with caffeine probably helps a great deal, since water decreases the toxic effect caffeine has. If you let it dry you up, which it does since it is diuretic, then the effects of caffeine are far more toxic for the brain and body.
Nice links those two.
The scientific findings indicate the obvious that caffeine constricts blood-flow to the brain by about 30%. It don't take a genius to realize what this does to your brain power. Well, it eats it away. Causes a drop in IQ. Just 100mg of caffeine (a little 1.25Dliter cup) can significantly decrease recall and reasoning.
Here's an article about creativity and caffeine:
How Caffeine Can Cramp Creativity - The New Yorker
Here's a little study about recall and verbal capability (caffeine):
Caffeine got your tongue?
And I loved coffee.
Nice links those two.
The scientific findings indicate the obvious that caffeine constricts blood-flow to the brain by about 30%. It don't take a genius to realize what this does to your brain power. Well, it eats it away. Causes a drop in IQ. Just 100mg of caffeine (a little 1.25Dliter cup) can significantly decrease recall and reasoning.
Here's an article about creativity and caffeine:
How Caffeine Can Cramp Creativity - The New Yorker
Here's a little study about recall and verbal capability (caffeine):
Caffeine got your tongue?
And I loved coffee.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 638
The reason I started this thread was originally that I had lots of anecdotal evidence pointing towards caffeine and subjective experience with it. Then I found the Caffeine Blues - book and could seriously relate to many of the things mentioned there.
I actually started to think more and more into the past to see the effects in awareness, tried to remember it all. And indeed I saw myself having the kind of psychotic mindset that caffeine appararently causes. So there are words of wisdom related to the dangers of caffeine and its not-so-positive effects.
Personally I've no longer any doubt about the issue. But subjective experience is difficult to prove on a public forum. Very interesting replies have come here, from all angles: mainly for, neutral and essentially against. And this is interesting.
I actually started to think more and more into the past to see the effects in awareness, tried to remember it all. And indeed I saw myself having the kind of psychotic mindset that caffeine appararently causes. So there are words of wisdom related to the dangers of caffeine and its not-so-positive effects.
Personally I've no longer any doubt about the issue. But subjective experience is difficult to prove on a public forum. Very interesting replies have come here, from all angles: mainly for, neutral and essentially against. And this is interesting.
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