Persys

The saying that I found to be most helpful when starting AA meetings was: "Take what you want, and leave the rest". Many people find it extremely beneficial just to be around other alcoholics, especially when you are feeling alone or feel like you can't fight anymore.

Hawks

Hi Snow

The book is a time capsule, a snapshot of 1930's America, its a little freaky to think about but it was a patriarchal society. But, can't change history right?

If we could somehow lift a few of the books characters out of the pages and drop them into 2014, I reckon they would freak out 100 times more. Men or women.

Mother nature is perfectly cool in 2014, it's not 1930 something anymore.

You might like this song. Listen to the last two lines

Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God - YouTube

Fly N Buy

No reservations about doing cocaine in a strangers house but concerned about a God thing!?

We alcoholics are funny people....

You'll be right at home

FreeOwl

You're over thinking it.

We do that, us alchies. We just love to live in our sick heads and fight against acceptance.

Tomorrow morning, go watch the sunrise. Just before it comes up, do absolutely everything in your power to stop it rising.

I believe this will provide you direct and irrefutable evidence there is a power greater than you. If only the sun and the earth's rotation.

From there, ask yourself 'am I at least willing to accept that somehow, this power greater than myself may possibly help me stay sober?'

That's all you need. The Godspeak is just because they had to pick something to build the program around.

All you need is the slightest willingness to allow the chance that AA could help you, and it will. It will help you in it's own way and in your own way.

You have nothing to lose and your life to gain

snowbunting

I wouldn't call feeling 'shame and embarrassment and self-disgust' about it, and calling it my rock bottom, having 'no reservations' I think I've been pretty honest about what I did and how I feel about it, and I don't think being an alcoholic takes away my right to have philosophical concerns. I'm not going to let my concerns stop me from trying AA, but I'm not going to brush them under the carpet either. That's why I made this thread.

There have been some seriously amazing replies on here, thank you so much everybody. SoberJennie, I will definitely look into those books you mention, and the AA Agnostica website. I've read stuff by Marya Hornbacher before actually, and enjoy her writing - so I'm looking forward to getting my hands on her book especially

Thanks RobbyRobot for explaining that it's not always unacceptable to talk about these things - you just pick your moments, and keep them private. I don't understand how sponsorship really works, but I'm hoping I get someone understanding when the time comes. I can be quite anxious and shy around people, and I really dislike talking on the phone, so I think that's another thing that's been putting me off going. But I've made a promise to myself and my husband, and I *am* going to do this.

I would thank everyone individually, but it's maybe best to do a big collective thank you

RobbyRobot

How you work with your sponsor is a mutual responsibility relationship. Here is a link to AA literature on sponsorships. The entire site is searchable and well organized with tons of publications etc. Sure enough, much of it is dated, and yet still applicable on many levels. Check it out.

Alcoholics Anonymous : Questions and Answers on Sponsorship

I also want to mention members do not always present as a unified whole, and so some members do like to draw out newbies into discussions in public which really are inappropriate. Real life isn't suspended simply by being in a meeting, of course. You are wise to be cautious and respectful of the differing idealisms within AA. Unfortunately, some AA members think their way is best for everybody. You'll eventually meet such personalities no doubt. Nonetheless, AA has plenty of open-minded individuals as well for you to share with you'll notice them as remarkably distinct from the close-minded members.

A great strength within AA program is we are encouraged to make our own choices as to what understanding we embrace as to an appreciation of a HP (GOD). I'm even more an individual in AA then I was when I first quit drinking, and so its very doable to be sober and still flourish as your own person within AA program. Patience and courage on all sides certainly comes to mind when I think of newbies in AA meeting up with more established members.

Hawks

If you have reservations about a "higher power "
It might be comforting to know that both Bill and Bob (the 2 busted up drunks that started AA as we know it today)
Had exactly the same reservations.

But, look what two busted up drunks were able to accomplish when they overcame those reservations.

They provided us, me, you and every one who needs it, with the very organisation being discussed.

If that isn't a modern day miracle... I'm not sure what is?

Fly N Buy

My point is that we alcoholics tend to over think everything(in new sobriety) while the entire problem with our bad habits is we didn't really think at all! We are very sensitive as well.

There is a term used - terminal uniqueness. Once we discover we are not unique but simply a garden variety human, recovery becomes much easier.

God/no God/Atheist / Agnostic / anti or pro this or that isn't the point of AA. The point is SOBRIETY. If we get too wrapped up and offended by others interpretations of what spiritual growth means, we lose hope.

Perhaps as you enter the rooms of AA look for similarities in people and not differences, this helped me and many other on here that use AA as a rung in the ladder of recovery.

Lately, my spiritual growth is heavily "passage meditation" oriented. One focuses on specific truths of passages from the wisdom of other who have achieved enlightenment ( not me ). This encompasses truths from Buddhists,
Christians, Muslims and non-theists. Light comes from many directions in my opinion. AA is one truth and one light......I don't not let nor argue with those who believe in a different path than mine. I stay focused on the prize = Staying Stopped!


What is Passage Meditation? | Blue Mountain Center of Meditation & Nilgiri Press

peace to you and all of us as we find our paths....

fini

snowbunting,
yes, the writing is male-centred. so was the context, then.
and though it's god of my understanding, later there is reference to Father and His children and such.

what i do with that is to believe that no matter what it says in the book that seemingly contradicts it, it really is about a power greater than me of MY understanding, and that i'm "willing to grow along spiritual lines". which i am. i am more than willing, i WANT to. even though at times i'm reluctant and resistanrt. it's okay.
i hold on to that and part of all this for me is that this willingness entails accepting other people's interpretations and being okay with how they talk about that.

and knowing that i don't need to argue about it, no matter how riled i might sometimes get

there's room for you. and what you believe/don't believe about a HP is your business, and yours alone.

mfanch

I didn't "believe" in the AA steps, but they worked because I worked them. So I will continue to work them. AA gave me a life beyond description.

Always was and am still: nontheist.

FreeOwl

Yes. This.

littlefish

Omnipotent, and male to boot???!!!!
I think you've got it a little wrong there, AA accepts everyone's individual definition of God, according to their own personal spiritual experience. "God we understand him". And, him is only used because it is the traditional grammatical use of a higher power or spiritual entity: not because God is specifically defined as a male.

I have actually never been to an AA meeting where God was defined, nor have I ever experienced anyone expecting me to accept their version of God.

Hawks

You can tell God is a man.

Earth's colour scheme isn't changed every 4-5 years.

(jokes)

wehav2day

Snowbunting, I love your name!!!

I'm gonna use the "f" word here... I would probably classify myself as feminist.

I have no issues with the language of the big book. It was written by dudes, for dudes, in the first half of the 20th century. They bring ladies in later.

It's a program that along with sr, saved my life. If aa isn't for you, that's cool. But I would not consider it a misogynistic program.

heartcore

I always remind myself that the big book was written in the 1930s. If you delve into the history of AA, it is firmly representative of the values and expectations of that era. While the first meetings were developing, the "wives" were in the kitchen preparing coffee and cakes.

I enjoy reading the book as sort of a quaint, sweet, flowered-tablecloth, fedora-wearing type of document. The stories (I have the new reprint of the original version, so all the stories are from those times - and the paper is thick and heavy...) are all farmboys moving to the big city and becoming traveling salesmen, diners, loose women, and bootleggers.

AA is now spread all over the world, the core insights of the program re-communicated in multiple languages and cultures. I've been part of all women's meetings, GLBT fellowships, etc.

I don't feel any mandate to believe in a traditional Christian god. I have my own version of spirituality, and although here in rural Alaska, I know I get some eye-rolling when I talk about chanting or "energy", I also feel loved and accepted. I hold hands and say the Lord's Prayer at the end of the meeting (something which was not done in previous fellowships in other places I've lived). Do I mind? No. It is comforting and connective, and I enjoy holding hands with people, feeling their energy.

I agree that there isn't "debate" over concepts of God or religion or even step interpretation at AA meetings. People share their personal experiences. It is intimate and respectful. You do your stepwork privately with your sponsor, outside of meetings. People sometimes share at meetings about their experience or struggle with a step, but not the details.

The trick for you will likely be to find a sponsor to do that work with who shares your perspective on spirituality (or who, if they have a different perspective, is open and accepting of you). This may take a while, and that's fine.

As to intrusive fellas, old or young, where I live there are very strong norms and ethics about that. Men work with men and women work with women, and if a man approaches a newcomer woman, other members will deal with it/protect. If that isn't the case where you live, well, you just deal with them like you deal with intrusive fellas in other situations - a clear "no." I say "I'm focusing on my recovery right now, and am not dating"- which is a pretty clear "no" in most situations. Plus you have a husband, who is visibly driving you there, so what's the worry? No more dangerous than frolicking with a bunch of strangers while doing coke...

We build our support community for recovery in many ways. Some use AA, some don't. Don't burden yourself with all these philosophical resistances without even checking it out though... The journey through sobriety isn't for the faint-hearted, sister. You need all the support you can get.

Ruby2

I was going to comment on the male only thing but several people have. Historical document, etc etc.

I was just at a beginners meeting tonight and the discussion topic was spirituality. One of the women said she had a problem with the God thing when she first came in but her sponsor said think of your higher power as Good Orderly Direction - G.O.D. She explained that her life was such a mess when she started that just making plans and getting up in the morning and showering and going to meetings was a good orderly foundation on which to build and keep going. She said she has three years sober.

Go and see if you like it. Keep an open mind. When I first started over ten years ago I didn't like it. I focused more on what I perceived as preachiness by some people and closed my ears and stopped going instead of paying attention to what they said. Took me a long time to get past that and I kept drinking. I now have ten months of continuous sobriety and now I enjoy going. Took me a while, didn't it? See what it's like. There are other options out there for support. I go to AA because There just aren't any alternatives near me and there are about five meetings any night of the week within a fifteen minutes drive.