Confirmation Bias
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 819
Whale, I have been reading this thread and have been trying to figure out the real reason behind it. Clearly, you want to help. Maybe your a bit over zealous though? If people don't respond to your advice, it doesn't mean that they didn't take it in. And you have no idea the number of people who read but don't post. I took a lot in before ever making my first post. You may be reaching someone and have no idea that you did.
I find that most people respond first to being heard or in this case, read. Sometimes, that is what is needed most. And a gentle hand with newcomers is needed. You have a lot of tools in your shed. You don't always need to use a hammer.
I find that most people respond first to being heard or in this case, read. Sometimes, that is what is needed most. And a gentle hand with newcomers is needed. You have a lot of tools in your shed. You don't always need to use a hammer.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
In short, yes.
I give freely of my time to answer peoples questions, so it does annoy me that they ask, seemingly open minded, but all they wanted was bias confirmation.
I'm not sure how I will ever be OK with that.
if you ever really WANT to be okay with that, WB, then practicing is a good way to get there.
i've been sober quite a while, and have spent years on forums. yes, people who are new and desperate often present as willing to do whatever is required or suggested or advised. and then it turns out that no, they didn't really mean "whatever", just "whatever but with many exceptions".
i expect when a person's desperate they're not entirely aware of how what they say comes across. i also expect that in desperation , at that moment, they mean "anything" when they say "anything".
i take that to mean that at the time they write, they genuinely want to stop. by the time your response gets there, they be in a slightly different "space" already, and have several reservations already about what they're prepared to do. certainly that would have been true for me.
i used to get frustrated and feel what i was offering, which i thought was good stuff, was being rejected by people who hadn't been clear in their original request for help. grrr. i wasted my time and advice. grrrr. sucks. not doing that again!!
what i came to see and understand, though, was that i can offer what i have to offer and let go of what the other does with it, if anything at all. i can give, and whether it's taken or thrown away is neither up to me nor need concern me.
i've come to a point where that feels good and right. and that point also includes not responding, when i'm not sure i'm dis-connecting from the outcome.
none of this means that i'm not wanting to 'help', or that i'm not hoping i'm offering/adding something of use and yeah, i'm interested in seeing a positive outcome, but i can't be invested in it.
it's....well, think of posts as gifts: free. no strings attached. here: it's yours, do with it as you see fit.
I give freely of my time to answer peoples questions, so it does annoy me that they ask, seemingly open minded, but all they wanted was bias confirmation.
I'm not sure how I will ever be OK with that.
if you ever really WANT to be okay with that, WB, then practicing is a good way to get there.
i've been sober quite a while, and have spent years on forums. yes, people who are new and desperate often present as willing to do whatever is required or suggested or advised. and then it turns out that no, they didn't really mean "whatever", just "whatever but with many exceptions".
i expect when a person's desperate they're not entirely aware of how what they say comes across. i also expect that in desperation , at that moment, they mean "anything" when they say "anything".
i take that to mean that at the time they write, they genuinely want to stop. by the time your response gets there, they be in a slightly different "space" already, and have several reservations already about what they're prepared to do. certainly that would have been true for me.
i used to get frustrated and feel what i was offering, which i thought was good stuff, was being rejected by people who hadn't been clear in their original request for help. grrr. i wasted my time and advice. grrrr. sucks. not doing that again!!
what i came to see and understand, though, was that i can offer what i have to offer and let go of what the other does with it, if anything at all. i can give, and whether it's taken or thrown away is neither up to me nor need concern me.
i've come to a point where that feels good and right. and that point also includes not responding, when i'm not sure i'm dis-connecting from the outcome.
none of this means that i'm not wanting to 'help', or that i'm not hoping i'm offering/adding something of use and yeah, i'm interested in seeing a positive outcome, but i can't be invested in it.
it's....well, think of posts as gifts: free. no strings attached. here: it's yours, do with it as you see fit.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
Originally Posted by silentrun 
Fire... (it's the tedtalk on this site)
http://www.economistsdoitwithmodels....ed-talk/:a043:
http://www.economistsdoitwithmodels....ed-talk/:a043:
This is beautiful, thanks fini:
think of posts as gifts: free. no strings attached. here: it's yours, do with it as you see fit.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,359
Originally Posted by courage2
silentrun is it this ted talk? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UXlt7-aa4E? I had a hard time searching on the website but thanks for the link -- she looks interesting.
This is beautiful, thanks fini:
This is beautiful, thanks fini:
He talks about the tendency to believe we have the answer to complex questions and how that can keep us from considering another viewpoint. Guilty!!!!!!!! When I stopped doing that it was a huge relief. I think I see WB doing that too. Takes one to know one.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
If many of us were together drinking in a bar during times past, agreement could be each quickly on some topics. Ie - let's get really drunk, no I promise I ok to drive and hey - it's your round.
Get a few sober people together and they will argue about the existence of God, over methods of recovery and what's best for virtual online reality.
We are truly a passionate, critical and compassionate lot wrapped into ism and Ick's!
And sooooo sensitive!
Peace
Get a few sober people together and they will argue about the existence of God, over methods of recovery and what's best for virtual online reality.
We are truly a passionate, critical and compassionate lot wrapped into ism and Ick's!
And sooooo sensitive!
Peace
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 38
I know that when I come to SR I am looking for answers, inspiration, camaraderie and hope (yes I do know "hope is not a strategy") and I know I am not smart enough to post "loaded" questions. But i can say that if I am in a bad place and this disease...addiction is getting the best of me I do appreciate any and all guidance from peeps that are more seasoned than I in this elusive path of sobriety I am desperately seeking.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
A thread about confirmation bias seems an appropriate place to post this.
I just ran across a quote by Richard Feynman that I liked. I was struck by how similar it is to one by Dr. Bob.
"It is necessary, for the existence of science, that minds exist which do not allow that nature must satisfy some preconceived condition like those of our philosophy." Richard Feynman (1964)
Tolerance furnishes, as a by-product, a greater freedom from the tendency to cling to preconceived ideas and stubbornly adhered-to opinions. In other words, it often promotes an open-mindedness that is vastly important - is, in fact, a prerequisite to the successful termination of any line of search, whether it be scientific or spiritual. Dr. Bob (1944)
I just ran across a quote by Richard Feynman that I liked. I was struck by how similar it is to one by Dr. Bob.
"It is necessary, for the existence of science, that minds exist which do not allow that nature must satisfy some preconceived condition like those of our philosophy." Richard Feynman (1964)
Tolerance furnishes, as a by-product, a greater freedom from the tendency to cling to preconceived ideas and stubbornly adhered-to opinions. In other words, it often promotes an open-mindedness that is vastly important - is, in fact, a prerequisite to the successful termination of any line of search, whether it be scientific or spiritual. Dr. Bob (1944)
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