Honest and Medical Insurance
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Honest and Medical Insurance
I am posting this here, as we often have the right intentions in early sobriety but don't fully understand the impact of the consequences until later on. This is particular important with amends and why in AA's steps amends are to be done carefully as the 9th not the 1st step.
When I first made a decision to get sober over a year ago, I went to my Primary Care Physician and after her assurances that she would not be submitting and RX codes regarding addiction, I decided to take a prescription of Antabuse.
I took one pill and decided I was going to do this without the Antabuse - still have the other 23 pills in the closet.
I am the healthiest I have been in over 25 years. I have lost over 55lbs. I no longer smoke. I eat a healthy diet. I train at a professional athletic level six days per week with two separate coaches (swim and tennis).
I had a $3M Term Life policy to take care of my family should I pass - basically to pay for any obligations plus enough for them to life a lifestyle they were accustomed for some time. However, my premium was pretty afoul based on how out of shape I was ten years ago and the fact I smoked when I first got it when I was 30 years old. So my annual premium was over $6,000.00. I have paid over $70,000 in premiums for this policy over the past decade.
Given how much better I feel, my rep who meets with me annually to see if I can send him more money for tax purposes suggested I re-evaluate my policy and I did. I passed with flying colors and my premium dropped from $6K to $1.8K annually. So I added another $2M to the policy.
Well, I was notified today that they are canceling the entire policy due to lack of disclosure. My PCP entered a code for alcoholism for the Antebuse last year, even though it was her suggestion and I only took one pill. I have spent this afternoon with lawyers and it would seem I am uninsurable and the $70K I have paid - well that policy has been nullified.
Sometimes we have the best intentions but the damage can linger long after we are honest with our doctors. It does not seem right but this is the system we operate in the US.
I hope my experience helps some of you avoid what is a very costly process.
When I first made a decision to get sober over a year ago, I went to my Primary Care Physician and after her assurances that she would not be submitting and RX codes regarding addiction, I decided to take a prescription of Antabuse.
I took one pill and decided I was going to do this without the Antabuse - still have the other 23 pills in the closet.
I am the healthiest I have been in over 25 years. I have lost over 55lbs. I no longer smoke. I eat a healthy diet. I train at a professional athletic level six days per week with two separate coaches (swim and tennis).
I had a $3M Term Life policy to take care of my family should I pass - basically to pay for any obligations plus enough for them to life a lifestyle they were accustomed for some time. However, my premium was pretty afoul based on how out of shape I was ten years ago and the fact I smoked when I first got it when I was 30 years old. So my annual premium was over $6,000.00. I have paid over $70,000 in premiums for this policy over the past decade.
Given how much better I feel, my rep who meets with me annually to see if I can send him more money for tax purposes suggested I re-evaluate my policy and I did. I passed with flying colors and my premium dropped from $6K to $1.8K annually. So I added another $2M to the policy.
Well, I was notified today that they are canceling the entire policy due to lack of disclosure. My PCP entered a code for alcoholism for the Antebuse last year, even though it was her suggestion and I only took one pill. I have spent this afternoon with lawyers and it would seem I am uninsurable and the $70K I have paid - well that policy has been nullified.
Sometimes we have the best intentions but the damage can linger long after we are honest with our doctors. It does not seem right but this is the system we operate in the US.
I hope my experience helps some of you avoid what is a very costly process.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: mountain states, Montana and Wyoming
Posts: 246
Jdooner I am very sorry for the predicament you are in. I have had the same thing happen to me IRT bi polar disorder. I cant get insurance for my family since it is in my files that I have BP. I was never formally diagnosed as BP, but was given a lot of the drugs off label, for insomnia.
The insomnia was stress related and since I relieved the stress from my life I sleep well, very well. I don't know if I am BP or not, and to be honest if I am then I am. I don't go around shaving the cat or anything in that regard.
I am not an attorney, but sure have hired a lot of them. One thing you might consider is to see if you were ever formally diagnosed for alcoholism. If there was not a formal diagnosis, then there is a chance you might be able to challenge the dropped status.
I am not familiar with antebuse, but if there is an off chance that it is used for something off prescription, headaches, over eating, anything, then maybe the Doc would tell the insurance company he did not prescribe it for alcoholism or alcohol abuse.
In my case I was told to take a psych evaluation to see if I was BP. I elected not to as I found some crappy insurance to bide me over until hopefully something else comes around.
You can also apply at another insurance company with the hope they wont find the antebuse, but more than likely they will.
On the bright side, if you lost 55 lbs, and are feeling great, then you might not need the insurance. Take what you put in the premiums, invest it in an index and start creating a cushion in the event you die.
Congrats on feeling good and doing well. I am not an attorney, but have been through a similar situation.
The insomnia was stress related and since I relieved the stress from my life I sleep well, very well. I don't know if I am BP or not, and to be honest if I am then I am. I don't go around shaving the cat or anything in that regard.
I am not an attorney, but sure have hired a lot of them. One thing you might consider is to see if you were ever formally diagnosed for alcoholism. If there was not a formal diagnosis, then there is a chance you might be able to challenge the dropped status.
I am not familiar with antebuse, but if there is an off chance that it is used for something off prescription, headaches, over eating, anything, then maybe the Doc would tell the insurance company he did not prescribe it for alcoholism or alcohol abuse.
In my case I was told to take a psych evaluation to see if I was BP. I elected not to as I found some crappy insurance to bide me over until hopefully something else comes around.
You can also apply at another insurance company with the hope they wont find the antebuse, but more than likely they will.
On the bright side, if you lost 55 lbs, and are feeling great, then you might not need the insurance. Take what you put in the premiums, invest it in an index and start creating a cushion in the event you die.
Congrats on feeling good and doing well. I am not an attorney, but have been through a similar situation.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: midwest
Posts: 484
Wow, jdooner, that is outrageous!
Once I dated a girl who smoked and I started up again (years ago). After we broke up I still smoked and wanted to quit badly. While I was at the doc with a sinus infection I casually asked if there was anything I could take to help quit smoking. Anyway.. he said that the best way is cold turkey and suggested not to give me anything to quit. Then he added the addiction code and I was charged with two separate visits: one for sinus infection and one for nicotine. It took him 10 seconds to say cold turkey and it cost me $70.00 since it was not covered by my insurance.
That is a true injustice for you but I am glad to hear you are handling it as well as you are!
We really do have to be careful.
Great post!
Once I dated a girl who smoked and I started up again (years ago). After we broke up I still smoked and wanted to quit badly. While I was at the doc with a sinus infection I casually asked if there was anything I could take to help quit smoking. Anyway.. he said that the best way is cold turkey and suggested not to give me anything to quit. Then he added the addiction code and I was charged with two separate visits: one for sinus infection and one for nicotine. It took him 10 seconds to say cold turkey and it cost me $70.00 since it was not covered by my insurance.
That is a true injustice for you but I am glad to hear you are handling it as well as you are!
We really do have to be careful.
Great post!
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Wow, jaw-dropping, Jdooner. I am so sorry for you and your family.
I was about to make a doctor's appointment to have a checkup. I am terrified to mention alcohol at this point. We have really good health and life insurance. I don't want to ruin it.
I am so disgusted at the way this country handles medical and insurance policies.
I was about to make a doctor's appointment to have a checkup. I am terrified to mention alcohol at this point. We have really good health and life insurance. I don't want to ruin it.
I am so disgusted at the way this country handles medical and insurance policies.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Acceptance
Posts: 756
Originally Posted by jdooner 
Well, I was notified today that they are canceling the entire policy due to lack of disclosure. My PCP entered a code for alcoholism for the Antebuse last year, even though it was her suggestion and I only took one pill. I have spent this afternoon with lawyers and it would seem I am uninsurable and the $70K I have paid - well that policy has been nullified.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: mountain states, Montana and Wyoming
Posts: 246
Another thought. You had a term insurance plan, was it a fixed price term for say 10 years or 15 years. If so then you should be able to retain that policy albeit at the same expensive rate until the end of the term. However if it is a renewable policy on a yearly basis then this would not be the case.
I don't see the connection of where they would cancel your existing policy even if you were treated for alcoholism, as it is a condition. Much the same as if you had a 10 year fixed term and were treated for cancer, they could also not cancel your policy.
I looked up off scrip uses for antabuse and the only thing I found was as a treatment for cancer and this will not help you.
I don't sell insurance, but have sure bought a lot of it in the past and I don't think they can drop you from your existing policy, but you wont be able to add the extra 2m and get a lower rate.
Just trying to think outside of the box.
Good luck
I don't see the connection of where they would cancel your existing policy even if you were treated for alcoholism, as it is a condition. Much the same as if you had a 10 year fixed term and were treated for cancer, they could also not cancel your policy.
I looked up off scrip uses for antabuse and the only thing I found was as a treatment for cancer and this will not help you.
I don't sell insurance, but have sure bought a lot of it in the past and I don't think they can drop you from your existing policy, but you wont be able to add the extra 2m and get a lower rate.
Just trying to think outside of the box.
Good luck
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Oh, I am having a meeting with my PCP. I am not sure what my legal rights are either. Maybe I could sue them to give me insurance and pay them for the rest of my life but then what happens when I die? How secure can you feel if you have to sue your life insurance provider when your alive? This is one of the majors too, which means I am uninsurable in the US.
The PCP practice is using the Affordable Care Act as their excuse. But I don't want to get off topic its not fair. Going to a Psychologist or Psychiatrist risks the same codes if you use health insurance.
My point in posting is not for me but we often have the best intentions. So much of recovery is about getting honest and I am very open. But our decisions have consequences and being honest with your Doctor may seem like a brilliant idea. But it can often have lasting consequences. At least I am finding out now vs God forbid something happens to me and my wife can't collect due to preexisting or non disclosure. They are happy to take your money until they have to pay it out.
I will most likely self insure against my ownership in my company. This was easier for me and I am still out $70K - I intend to look at legal in terms of recovering some of this.
The PCP practice is using the Affordable Care Act as their excuse. But I don't want to get off topic its not fair. Going to a Psychologist or Psychiatrist risks the same codes if you use health insurance.
My point in posting is not for me but we often have the best intentions. So much of recovery is about getting honest and I am very open. But our decisions have consequences and being honest with your Doctor may seem like a brilliant idea. But it can often have lasting consequences. At least I am finding out now vs God forbid something happens to me and my wife can't collect due to preexisting or non disclosure. They are happy to take your money until they have to pay it out.
I will most likely self insure against my ownership in my company. This was easier for me and I am still out $70K - I intend to look at legal in terms of recovering some of this.
I guess honesty isn't always the best policy...Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by herradura
Another thought. You had a term insurance plan, was it a fixed price term for say 10 years or 15 years. If so then you should be able to retain that policy albeit at the same expensive rate until the end of the term. However if it is a renewable policy on a yearly basis then this would not be the case.
I don't see the connection of where they would cancel your existing policy even if you were treated for alcoholism, as it is a condition. Much the same as if you had a 10 year fixed term and were treated for cancer, they could also not cancel your policy.
I looked up off scrip uses for antabuse and the only thing I found was as a treatment for cancer and this will not help you.
I don't sell insurance, but have sure bought a lot of it in the past and I don't think they can drop you from your existing policy, but you wont be able to add the extra 2m and get a lower rate.
Just trying to think outside of the box.
Good luck
I don't see the connection of where they would cancel your existing policy even if you were treated for alcoholism, as it is a condition. Much the same as if you had a 10 year fixed term and were treated for cancer, they could also not cancel your policy.
I looked up off scrip uses for antabuse and the only thing I found was as a treatment for cancer and this will not help you.
I don't sell insurance, but have sure bought a lot of it in the past and I don't think they can drop you from your existing policy, but you wont be able to add the extra 2m and get a lower rate.
Just trying to think outside of the box.
Good luck
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: mountain states, Montana and Wyoming
Posts: 246
If you own your company then you might be able to do a "key person" policy, have the business pay it and write the whole damn thing off. Just make sure you select the correct beneficiary. If you have to, throw the proceeds into a trust for the benefit of wife and kids.
Another option to relieve stress would be an accidental death policy. This should not be affected by the antabuse at all.
Better yet, if you are exercising 6 days a week and healthy as a horse, you don't need the damn insurance.
Another option to relieve stress would be an accidental death policy. This should not be affected by the antabuse at all.
Better yet, if you are exercising 6 days a week and healthy as a horse, you don't need the damn insurance.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Interesting thread because this was the basic topic at my home group AA meeting today. Our leader was taking on some things to early in his sobriety. True we just wish to be honest but we need to move slowly and give all matters much deep thought before action begins.
Sorry that happened to you.
A true bummer.
MM
Sorry that happened to you.
A true bummer.
MM
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by herradura
If you own your company then you might be able to do a "key person" policy, have the business pay it and write the whole damn thing off. Just make sure you select the correct beneficiary. If you have to, throw the proceeds into a trust for the benefit of wife and kids.
Another option to relieve stress would be an accidental death policy. This should not be affected by the antabuse at all.
Better yet, if you are exercising 6 days a week and healthy as a horse, you don't need the damn insurance.
Another option to relieve stress would be an accidental death policy. This should not be affected by the antabuse at all.
Better yet, if you are exercising 6 days a week and healthy as a horse, you don't need the damn insurance.
I will be okay in the grand scheme. Really, my point in the post is to highlight that even with good intentions things need to be taken in stride.
I am not worried about my health - the accidental might actually be the answer with a different provider. I will look into this - thank you very much!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,909
Awful. I ran into a similar issue on a smaller scale, and my experience has made me paranoid. It's very unfortunate that you can't be honest with your own doctors. System sucks. Very sorry to hear you are going through this, thank you for sharing and confirming my paranoia.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Sorry for this - good heads up. Sounds like an E&O claim against agent potentially. Course lawyers will look at that certainly.
Two year contestability on original policy. Of course as u stated it lapsed - but for others.
Yes, this is of utmost concern. Had lawyer friend refuse to go to treatment for concerns of not only life policy but in his case potentially being disbarred.
Two year contestability on original policy. Of course as u stated it lapsed - but for others.
Yes, this is of utmost concern. Had lawyer friend refuse to go to treatment for concerns of not only life policy but in his case potentially being disbarred.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 425
I was curious myself about life insurance and coverage with past alcohol dependence & doing a stint in a rehab. Found this interesting article, which I think would be helpful. Made me see I need to wait at least 6-10 years of sobriety before thinking about applying for life insurance *sigh*
How To Get Term Life Insurance If You Have Alcohol Addiction
How To Get Term Life Insurance If You Have Alcohol Addiction
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