Bwat

I cannot *tell* you how many times I have been someplace, like a business lunch, and the waiter will stand there and say "I know you, you go to the AA meetings at the clubhouse right?" and I say "No, I don't" "Yeah, yeah, you do, because (and they start to tell my story" and I say, "No, you have me mistaken for someone else", and they say "No, I know I know you from there. You haven't been to meetings in a while (or you were at yesterday's 7 am or something), and you were dating that guy, and here is more personal stores I'm sharing ..."

And I interrupt and say "No. I have NOT been to those meetings. And if I recall, doesn't AA mean *anonymous*? Aren't you supposed to keep things private?" and they're all "but you were there ..." and I respond "yes, ANONYMOUS, I believe it is an ANONYMOUS program, from what I understand" And I stare at them, and keep staring at them, and then their face changes and they go "oh ..."

This happens over and over and over again. As I mentioned previously I have lost jobs as a result of people in AA deciding to talk about AA in front of me at my job so that my employers and co-workers hear, not just that I am in AA, but my stories, situations, statements, and requests for help as well.

This is a very small town ... I can't just keep getting a new job every time some idiot in AA decides to out me!!

Ythill

What bothers me a lot is that AA makes me feel worse about myself. I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, or that people who drink like I do have an allergy to alcohol. Right now AA is a means for me to meet people who want to stay sober, and that's it. I respect the support it provides at this time, but I don't like the idea of accepting the good things and ignoring the bad. It makes me think of people who say that the nazis made huge strides in cancer research. I am a problem drinker who uses alcohol as a coping mechanism. God did not help me to realize this, and god will not remove the defects in my character. I'm not an atheist, nor am I a mystic. Hypocrisy doesn't bother me. I just feel that a system of thought should be free of contradictions. Otherwise it's not really valid.

Bwat

I don't feel good rehashing these experiences and stories and I don't know if it's helping anything. I could write a novel for all the experiences, confusions, and damage I have experienced in AA. If I felt even the slightest bit better or benefit going to an AA meeting I would go. Right now even, there's a meeting starting in 5 minutes.

AA doesn't work for everyone. AA may work for me if I lived elsewhere, or when I travel and go to different meetings (I do plan to find AA meetings when I travel and check them out).

I want to be sober. I want to learn how to do this sober life, I want to learn how to handle life on life's terms and become a better and better person every day. I am willing and wanting to do the work. I just know I would do much better if I found other people on the same path and we worked together as a team. It's just very unlikely it will be in person here, and it may take some time for me to find it if it can happen.

I just know I'm tired of struggling through this alone, and there's times I just feel overwhelmed trying to find all the answers myself - but at the same time I know going to a local meeting will only make whatever problem I'm having worse, just like alcohol. Maybe not as bad, but bad.

Bwat

Exactly.

zerothehero

A few thoughts:

First, to imply that an alcoholic is somehow too brain-damaged to learn from books, SR, and others without the direct help of "the experts" is, quite frankly, insulting. For some it may be true, but for most likely not. One thing to remember about AA is that it is deliberately populated by people who are NOT experts. They have their history and experiences, but outside of AA no specific training. That's fine. But don't imply people at AA meetings are experts. (Re: "Argue and pi$$ and moan this or that is my choice is baseless as many chose for years to diminish their mental and emotional skills be using the toxic substance alcohol and or drugs, now suddenly they have the reasoning power of experts? Come on get real!")

Next, what we are really discussing here is a fundamental philosophical and/or spiritual/religious perspective. Some people embrace the AA philosophy and others don't. When I go to AA meetings I feel like I did the last few times I went to church. I enjoy the company but I don't buy much of the jargon, and the ritual gives me the willies. I don't like feeling compelled to repeat the steps if I only agree with some of them (Incidentally, the last AA meeting I attended ended with The Lord's Prayer.)

I think what this conversation is about, in part, is that some of us bemoan the fact that AA is the only free alternative in many communities. It's established and it helps A LOT of people (and yes, it harms some), but it rubs a lot of us the wrong way in ways beyond just the mention of god and the prayers. It is confusing to people to be told to take responsibility but that you are powerless and you have to somehow surrender your will to a higher power. But then, life is full of paradoxes...

Mountainmanbob

usually the prayers are at the end of the meeting
some will leave the meeting just before the prayer (done it myself)

it would seem that he has something that you want
otherwise you would not call him a "close friend"

we need not agree with everything in AA or in AA meetings
I sure don't and still often attend, sectary and lead meetings

Bob

desypete

i go to aa as there is no were else i can get what i need to stay sober, the people there helped me when i was almost a down and out to rebuild my life and get back on my feet again

i dont believe in god and i make no apology's in meetings when i say i dont believe in a god

however i do believe in aa as without it i would be a drunk today or worse dead, as i was sure heading that way in my drinking years

it works for me i have a sponsor, i live the steps in my life without a god, and i am very active in aa
its been 10 years now and its flown by were i look how i am today with a job and home for my kids and even managed to stay sober whiles one of my lads was dying at home with me
it amazes me how this 24 / 7 drunk that i become is able to live a life without booze no matter what goes on in my life

but thats what aa said i would feel like in time it promised me a life beyond my wildest dreams ??

losing a son and watching him die daily is life beyond your wildest dreams ???????

no its not
but the fact i remained sober is

the fact my daughter gave me a huge kiss and hug the day of my sons funeral is as she was so proud of her daddy as he doesn't drink anymore nor bring the shame he once brought

today my kids have someone in there corner who loves them instead of a drunk

thats what aa has given me

no more wet beds, no more stinking of pee, no more being sick, no more falling over drunk, no more waking up in a police cell, no more guilt shame or remorse

all because i dont pick up that first drink and get along to aa and learn more about me and how selfish i am in life

Bwat

I am not sure where some of the comments are coming from about being too brain damaged to learn from books, I know that's not something I said. I learn a lot from books but conversations help too.

I don't see AAers as "experts" (though many there often do) -but I DO see them has having been sober longer than I have, so they've gone through things some way, some how, and may have some tidbits to share that can help me.

Like exercise, nutrition, fitness - I am not an *expert* in any of those, but I've spent a number of years learning, trying different things, changing my eating and my lifestyle ... so though not an expert I can suggest things to people who are newer to eating whole foods and exercise.

And the company gives me the willies ... when I read what AA is supposed to be, how it is supposed to work, when I read blogs, and books, and success stories, a lot of that sounds really good to me.

But I agree also that some of my spiritual beliefs do not line up with AA's teachings so that creates problems. And the whole "you must do as I say! Everything I say! (even if that means going off my anti-depressants) or you are not ready! you are not serious! You have not hit bottom!!" "I insist you come and be in the same room with this man who tried to kill you, broke many of your bones, landing you in the hospital, thereby violating and voiding your restraining order! And if you do not then you are not serious about sobriety!! And I will never talk to you or help you again!!"

I have problems with that.

digdug

It sucks some of you have had such negative experiences with the members of AA. The thing about AA is that every meeting is autonomous. No two meetings are the same. For me, it took some experimentation and trial and error to figure out the meetings that were a good fit for me. I spent my morning at an 8am meeting laughing my ass off with a bunch of men who have years of sobriety but know how to have a good time. Sure, sometimes it gets serious, but we are not a glum lot. Most of the meetings I go to are like this. I honestly have a good time just hanging out with friends, talking sobriety and developing deep, honest relationships with people who understand me better than I understood myself when I first came in.

If a meeting makes you feel like drinking, try another one. And another until you find one that "fits."

I guess it just irks me a little bit when someone says how bad they want to get sober, but then dismisses some aspect of recovery (not just AA) as "not for them." As a couple of people already mentioned, I was willing to do ANYTHING to get and stay sober. My way put in in a coma in the ICU. My way alienated me from everyone that still loved and cared about me. So this time, I decided to try it another way without questioning the suggestions that were made to me. Those suggestions have gotten me 1.5 years of productive sobriety. Those suggestions have eliminated any urge to drink or use drugs. I have no cravings. My anxiety is under control. I live a normal and happy life. I'm not religious. I'm a stubborn person. I can be quick to judgment. But when I just let go and became willing and open-minded to the process, all of my doubts, fears and resentments towards the program dissipated.

So screw MY way.

AA is not the only way to get and stay sober. There are plenty of people here on SR that are living proof of that. But to dismiss any method of recovery after only a short time seems a bit short-sided. In the end, no matter what you choose to do, you get out of it what you put in. If you put in negative energy and resistance, the results will reflect that mentality.

Mountainmanbob

I would also have problems with that person

MM

Bwat

Unfortunately that wasn't just one person. That was *many* people, including the clubhouse manager. You see, that man quit his job and became homeless in order to volunteer at the clubhouse all day every day, and make everyone think he was just *awesome*.

And no amount of photo evidence, police witnessing, police reports, hospital records, or court transcripts were going to change their minds.

Not even the fact he is now wanted in another state for murdering two women. That little bitty fact doesn't change their minds either.


BUT that doesn't change my belief that perhaps AA can work for me ... and has a lot of good value .. but not HERE, NOT FOR ME HERE. I need another solution.

digdug

That's pretty messed up. If I had gone to that meeting, I definitely wouldn't have gone back. In fact I've gone to many meetings just one time and have never gone back. Maybe I didn't like the vibe or the people. Maybe people were too preachy on the god thing. Maybe the room didn't have adequate air-conditioning or heat. Maybe the chairs were uncomfortable. But in trying all of these different meetings, I've found about a dozen that I can consistently go to and feel comfortable.

I know you said you live in a small town. Are you able to maybe try a meeting in another town? Sure, it may be a bit of a trek, but at least for me, I've traveled great distances and done seemingly insane things just to obtain alcohol. I wouldn't have batted an eye at driving 2 hours to get a bottle.

Bwat

Yes. It is VERY messed up. Very very messed up. And pretty much people don't understand why, after going through that and more (I could definitely write enough stories, situations, words, to write a book - I will not do that here), I do not want to go back ... ESPECIALLY since even all that aside, I still am not getting what AA talks about, what I know it's supposed to be. I'm not getting *help*. If it helped even a teeny little bit I would go!!!

I have gone, several times more than once, to all the meetings in all directions that I can reasonably reach in order to find a meeting / group / place I can go to on a regular basis. And that's the thing - it's a small town so *it's the same people*. Yeah, some of the folks at the 7 am might not go to the 8 pm, some people all the way over here may not go all the way over there, but it's the *same* people. And many of the same people in every 12 step group!

I've gone to every 12 step program I can find: AA, CA, NA, OA, Al-Anon, ACA / AcoA ... well, I did not go to the Sex Addicts Anonymous program!! In part on it's own I'm not sure that would have helped, but knowing who is in it and who leads it I know I'm safer away from it.

The best meetings have been the NA meetings, but sadly they pretty much just read the cards, then bug out. They open the floor for questions, concerns, pressing issues ... people say things, express fears, worries, problems, challenges - but nobody responds to what was said ... then it's "well, since that seems to be all, let's wrap this up!" it's less than 5 minutes of meeting usually.


I wanted to add also - and being it's the same people it's not like I can just "not got back to that meeting" - because it's *every meeting in the clubhouse* ... and then those people are in every meeting in that church over there, and every meeting in that church over there, and every meeting in that park over here. I've been to meetings in different cities where meetings ARE different and there ARE different people. There's that meeting on this side of town I really liked, but that meeting on that side of town didn't feel good. But here it's not like that. Different room, but always the same people.

PurpleKnight

I personally don't attend AA!!

But if AA isn't working, or another method for that matter, then we need to find something that will work?!!

At the end of the day it works for many many people, so we can't be writing it off as a valid support system, and especially here in the Newcomers section of the Forum!!

LBrain

Bwat, I can relate to seeing the same people at the different meetings. It reminds me of the cartoons of a group of people I saw in the Monty Python's Flying Circus show, they move in herds around here.

Bwat

Okey dokey ... I think we can all agree what I went through was messed up. I can't talk about this anymore ... I have spent so much time on it now my head is stuck on the terror of those years of my life, fighting to stay alive, wanting to go to meetings but being prevented both by that man and by the folks in AA, even when I got to meetings (past the stalkings, past him jumping out at bushes at me, violating his restraing order), being harassed, bullied, threatened by AA members in AA meetings / the clubhouse - knowing people were lying to protect him (tho they lied badly and ended up incriminating him), on and on and on ...

This is not good for my mental health.

I would like solutions ... I need ideas and suggestions where to go, what to do, what to try, I need to pull my mind out of these rememberings, this has become an unhealthy distraction I cannot afford right now.


And reading someone else's post that came before mine ... I do reiterate there is a lot in AA I read about I like and want, I do believe it can work, I will be going to go to AA meetings when I travel ... but I cannot and will not go to meetings here.

LBrain

Yeah!

Nuudawn

Like Altoids, I feel so incredibly fortunate..even blessed to have found "one" meeting in my area where I feel like I belong. I have made this small, humble little group of folks my homegroup..and I love them. I toured plenty of them and the one I found stood out above all the rest, for me. I am quite fine with committing to this group/once a week meeting. I did attend another meeting the other night for a particular reason and well, that didn't go well. I posted a thread bout that in another forum as I didn't think the debate it might lead to would be permitted in Newcomer's.

One thing, I will say bout that other ..okay...somewhat "icky" meeting is it challenged my boundaries..strengthened them. I found some good in that BUT..I'm still not sure I will venture much away from my homegroup again lol.

Someone else mentioned LifeRing. If you have one in your area, I encourage you to give a go. I went to one and really, really liked it. Unfortunately it is an hour away. For me, I know my sobriety requires real life sober connections and well, all the support I can get. I would go to SMART, LifeRing..whatever ...just to talk with other folks bout sobriety etc. Sometimes I just need to get the heck out of my house!

There is stuff I like bout AA..and stuff I don't. Like ole Bill W. encouraged.."I take what I need and leave the rest".

Above all though, I would have to say SR is my rock. When I hear or experience something I don't like or question at AA or..well, anywhere...

I take it to my SR committee..who come from all walks of recovery. And I love that the BEST!!!

Bwat

Bummer, no LifeRing or Smart in my area ...

And yeah ... everything you all are talking about that works is what I want!! I just probably have to do it online or by phone looks like.

Notmyrealname

I will relate to you an anecdote, which will prove nothing (as anecdotes generally do), but maybe someone will find it interesting.

I go to church. More specifically, I go to church to sing in the choir. And I sing in the choir because I like to make music, and my parents are in the choir, and it's nice to see them and spend time with them a couple of times a week, so we have this thing that we do together, and then we can talk about stuff in the choir, and it helps us relate on a personal level.

Choir is good for me in other ways. I get to work on my voice, and I get to meet new people and make new friends -- and these are things that are good for me, I'm a little introverted and could use the face time with humans. It gets me out of the house.

And on Sundays I go sing in the choir, and I meet people in the church, and they're all pretty nice people, so I have this whole social outlet with new friends and acquaintances that's probably very good for me.

Now, I don't believe in God as far as I can throw my automobile, and if there is a God I am pretty sure He doesn't care what I do with my Sunday mornings, so I think church is a bit of a waste of time as intended, but I get a lot of benefits out of the whole thing despite not believing in any of the related dogma and frankly finding the whole call-and-response, Simon-Says aspect of the whole thing very tiresome indeed.

Sure, I could take a stand on theology, tossing all those benefits aside in the process, but that would be a little silly.