Difficulty with AA
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 132
It's back to school time and I remember going to buy shoes when I was a kid. There was a style I wanted and went to many stores and tried that style many times but they didn't fit right.
I was disappointed to not get the style I liked and that many kids would have that year. The shoe didn't fit.
I tried another kind, it fit, I played in them all year. After a week I didn't remember or care it wasn't the popular shoe
Maybe AA is just a shoe that doesn't fit YOU, even though it's just right for someone else.
Lots of shoes out there that can get us where we are going.
I was disappointed to not get the style I liked and that many kids would have that year. The shoe didn't fit.
I tried another kind, it fit, I played in them all year. After a week I didn't remember or care it wasn't the popular shoe
Maybe AA is just a shoe that doesn't fit YOU, even though it's just right for someone else.
Lots of shoes out there that can get us where we are going.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Hi. I’ve been in the program for a lot of years sober and have observed many come and go in the approximately 15K meetings I’ve attended, participated in and or just listened. It’s often said that the program is a simple program for complicated people and many are nit pickers who can see but don’t have the experience of how IT works. Others deep inside want to drink more than they want to have long term sobriety.
I often state self honesty about our drinking is the start and then accepting we cannot drink in safety is next.
Argue and pi$$ and moan this or that is my choice is baseless as many chose for years to diminish their mental and emotional skills be using the toxic substance alcohol and or drugs, now suddenly they have the reasoning power of experts? Come on get real!
I had above average IQ yet needed, even with my ego, the directions from some street, wine sore alcoholics who had traveled the ravages of alcohol living who sobered up successfully because they were motivated and wanted what they had tossed away for the drink.
It does not always come easy and requires unwanted work but it for many is certainly worth it.
BE WELL
I often state self honesty about our drinking is the start and then accepting we cannot drink in safety is next.
Argue and pi$$ and moan this or that is my choice is baseless as many chose for years to diminish their mental and emotional skills be using the toxic substance alcohol and or drugs, now suddenly they have the reasoning power of experts? Come on get real!
I had above average IQ yet needed, even with my ego, the directions from some street, wine sore alcoholics who had traveled the ravages of alcohol living who sobered up successfully because they were motivated and wanted what they had tossed away for the drink.
It does not always come easy and requires unwanted work but it for many is certainly worth it.
BE WELL
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 1,022
Going to AA and doing the AA stuff and experiencing the support, acceptance and camaraderie at AA -- some people find this helps them get sober and stay there.
Prolonged critical analysis of AA meetings and methods -- I have never heard that this helps you get sober and stay there
I think it's important to stay on mission. You're not going there to critique the program; you're going because the program has helped similarly situated people get sober and stay sober, and you hope that it will help you, too.
It is likely the process itself imparts benefits even if you're not all-in on the dogma. The routine of going to meetings, support, acceptance, group discussion, introspection -- all this probably helps, and none of it is dogmatic. That's why I say take it at face value -- if you're gonna go, just go, do the stuff, go home and go on with your day.
It's a little like going to the mechanic and then second-guessing his diagnosis of your automobile's malfunction -- you're pretty clearly not the expert on getting sober at this point, and you're taking your problem to a place that may provide a solution, in hopes that they can provide you a solution, and then you're second-guessing the hell out of the solution. Trust that the experts that you selected, as experts, actually know what they're talking about. Maybe they actually do.
And if you really can't swallow the AA stuff then . . don't. Nothing wrong with that.
Prolonged critical analysis of AA meetings and methods -- I have never heard that this helps you get sober and stay there
I think it's important to stay on mission. You're not going there to critique the program; you're going because the program has helped similarly situated people get sober and stay sober, and you hope that it will help you, too.
It is likely the process itself imparts benefits even if you're not all-in on the dogma. The routine of going to meetings, support, acceptance, group discussion, introspection -- all this probably helps, and none of it is dogmatic. That's why I say take it at face value -- if you're gonna go, just go, do the stuff, go home and go on with your day.
It's a little like going to the mechanic and then second-guessing his diagnosis of your automobile's malfunction -- you're pretty clearly not the expert on getting sober at this point, and you're taking your problem to a place that may provide a solution, in hopes that they can provide you a solution, and then you're second-guessing the hell out of the solution. Trust that the experts that you selected, as experts, actually know what they're talking about. Maybe they actually do.
And if you really can't swallow the AA stuff then . . don't. Nothing wrong with that.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
I am struggling with this as well. I am coming to understand I really do need someone I can talk to about my recovery and finding a healthy way to deal with things. But when I go to the rooms, it's always the same people saying the same things. I have been to so many meetings I don't even have to physically be there, I can just repeat what they say in my head.
When I call people they always say read the big book &/or go to a meeting. When this fails to address or relieve my obsession, or help me with a situation that feels unmanageable to me, they say "I don't know" or "you are being willful". I have had sponsors that have demanded I do things that put me in a literal life and death situation. I routinely experience people 1) publicly outing others, 2) sharing people's personal private sharing with others without permission, 3) making up people's personal private sharing and sharing *that*.
I *get* what step 4 is and I enjoy it - but unless I am insulted, pummeled, emotionally thrashed into the dirt to the point I'm quite truly and literally feeling suicidal, well I just don't get my character defects! And being suicidal is part of the process! And now that we've brought you to this point just sit alone by yourself with it for days! And when you pull yourself out, I will take all the credit and tell everyone how wonderful I am!!
I live in a small town and the folks in the rooms are the same folks - and they are very predatory. Being in the rooms is unsafe in a variety of ways. Going to the rooms frightens me. Going into the rooms has been dangerous for me - I have been assaulted as well as bullied, cornered, threatened, and 13th stepped there.
I have run into many high functioning alcoholics --- but guess what? NONE OF THEM GO TO MEETINGS BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF CRAZY THERE IS IN THE ROOMS. Yet somehow, if I don't want to go to the rooms because I'm trying to save my life, there is something wrong with me.
I am smart, I have a wide range of spiritual beliefs and studies. I am aware many of my "problems" are not only "cadillac problems", but things that most people, alcoholic or not, cannot even begin to understand. And people don't seem to even try.
I really struggle sometimes needing to be both teacher and student for myself at the same time. But the rooms, after 3 years, just are NOT helping. I know I want and need support, I need guidance, reminders, new thoughts, ideas, the "one alcoholic talking to another" - that "experience strength and hope" people say they provide but all they provide are those exact words, not any stories, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, perspectives, experiences that actually *provide* that experience, strength and hope.
When I call people they always say read the big book &/or go to a meeting. When this fails to address or relieve my obsession, or help me with a situation that feels unmanageable to me, they say "I don't know" or "you are being willful". I have had sponsors that have demanded I do things that put me in a literal life and death situation. I routinely experience people 1) publicly outing others, 2) sharing people's personal private sharing with others without permission, 3) making up people's personal private sharing and sharing *that*.
I *get* what step 4 is and I enjoy it - but unless I am insulted, pummeled, emotionally thrashed into the dirt to the point I'm quite truly and literally feeling suicidal, well I just don't get my character defects! And being suicidal is part of the process! And now that we've brought you to this point just sit alone by yourself with it for days! And when you pull yourself out, I will take all the credit and tell everyone how wonderful I am!!
I live in a small town and the folks in the rooms are the same folks - and they are very predatory. Being in the rooms is unsafe in a variety of ways. Going to the rooms frightens me. Going into the rooms has been dangerous for me - I have been assaulted as well as bullied, cornered, threatened, and 13th stepped there.
I have run into many high functioning alcoholics --- but guess what? NONE OF THEM GO TO MEETINGS BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF CRAZY THERE IS IN THE ROOMS. Yet somehow, if I don't want to go to the rooms because I'm trying to save my life, there is something wrong with me.
I am smart, I have a wide range of spiritual beliefs and studies. I am aware many of my "problems" are not only "cadillac problems", but things that most people, alcoholic or not, cannot even begin to understand. And people don't seem to even try.
I really struggle sometimes needing to be both teacher and student for myself at the same time. But the rooms, after 3 years, just are NOT helping. I know I want and need support, I need guidance, reminders, new thoughts, ideas, the "one alcoholic talking to another" - that "experience strength and hope" people say they provide but all they provide are those exact words, not any stories, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, perspectives, experiences that actually *provide* that experience, strength and hope.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Also re the powerlessness ... this concept had me staying far from AA for many years. Growing up being so powerless, when I finally started feeling empowered in myself, the last thing I wanted to do was to say I was powerless again!!
But *one* thing I got from one of the meetings is the idea that we are powerless over alcohol, as in just one, and we can't stop. We can't "choose" to stop after one - if we could, we wouldn't be here.
When they phrased it as an allergy, at first I resisted the concept, but then they provided the idea that it's an unusual reaction to something. Like a peanut allergy - someone with a peanut allergy is powerless over the effect of peanuts in their body and what happens to them. Many people can eat peanuts all day long with no problem. They can eat alot, some, none, one, no problem. But the person with the peanut allergy may find themselves in a life or death situation ... from one single peanut.
So ... I'm powerless over the fact I could die from eating peanuts, or strawberries, shellfish, or a bee sting... will power alone isn't enough to over come it ... they must avoid, at all costs, peanuts or strawberries or shellfish or bees ... and seek medical attention should they be impacted by one ... in my case I'm powerless over the fact I could die from drinking alcohol.
But *one* thing I got from one of the meetings is the idea that we are powerless over alcohol, as in just one, and we can't stop. We can't "choose" to stop after one - if we could, we wouldn't be here.
When they phrased it as an allergy, at first I resisted the concept, but then they provided the idea that it's an unusual reaction to something. Like a peanut allergy - someone with a peanut allergy is powerless over the effect of peanuts in their body and what happens to them. Many people can eat peanuts all day long with no problem. They can eat alot, some, none, one, no problem. But the person with the peanut allergy may find themselves in a life or death situation ... from one single peanut.
So ... I'm powerless over the fact I could die from eating peanuts, or strawberries, shellfish, or a bee sting... will power alone isn't enough to over come it ... they must avoid, at all costs, peanuts or strawberries or shellfish or bees ... and seek medical attention should they be impacted by one ... in my case I'm powerless over the fact I could die from drinking alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,536
I don't ascribe to all AA stands for, and I've shared that with my home group. They don't force me to do anything that isn't for me. BUT.... it took me a long time to find a group like that.
I left AA for a while bc I would leave feeling worse after being in the rooms. But I need the face to face time with people like me.
I really wish there were other programs available where I live, but AA is really the only game in town here. I use AVRT most of the time for my sobriety, SR bc I love the encouragement, support and fun people on this site who "get it," a nutritional based program to feed my body what it needs, and I use AA for the face to face camaraderie. I don't pretend to be an AAer in my AA group, and they are fine with that. I listen, read, make coffee, share, and support . . . so I take from AA what I need, and I don't even worry about the rest.
Combining a few different methods works best for me.
I left AA for a while bc I would leave feeling worse after being in the rooms. But I need the face to face time with people like me.
I really wish there were other programs available where I live, but AA is really the only game in town here. I use AVRT most of the time for my sobriety, SR bc I love the encouragement, support and fun people on this site who "get it," a nutritional based program to feed my body what it needs, and I use AA for the face to face camaraderie. I don't pretend to be an AAer in my AA group, and they are fine with that. I listen, read, make coffee, share, and support . . . so I take from AA what I need, and I don't even worry about the rest.
Combining a few different methods works best for me.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
YTHill, thanks for posting this, you are providing validation to many others who have the same reaction to their introduction to AA.
When I quit drinking, I felt that I needed encouragement, I needed strengthening, I needed to be told I had worth and that I deserved sobriety. I wanted to learn HOW to quit drinking, what the tools were that would make this possible. I knew about AA's existence of course, and jumped right in and filled my boots. I bought and read their book and attended meetings. The more exposure to AA I got, the more those same questions you raised bothered me.
I kept looking, reading, researching, and found a different way that met my needs, here at SR. It empowered me, it encouraged me, it validated me, and showed me a way forward that made sense to me.
AA is useful and important to many, and it isn't for everybody. I hope you look into other ideas about sobriety, and you find your way forward. Believe in yourself, believe in your ability to choose sobriety, and believe that you deserve a life without this addiction in it. And please keep posting here - there is support for you. Best to you.
When I quit drinking, I felt that I needed encouragement, I needed strengthening, I needed to be told I had worth and that I deserved sobriety. I wanted to learn HOW to quit drinking, what the tools were that would make this possible. I knew about AA's existence of course, and jumped right in and filled my boots. I bought and read their book and attended meetings. The more exposure to AA I got, the more those same questions you raised bothered me.
I kept looking, reading, researching, and found a different way that met my needs, here at SR. It empowered me, it encouraged me, it validated me, and showed me a way forward that made sense to me.
AA is useful and important to many, and it isn't for everybody. I hope you look into other ideas about sobriety, and you find your way forward. Believe in yourself, believe in your ability to choose sobriety, and believe that you deserve a life without this addiction in it. And please keep posting here - there is support for you. Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Yes AA isn't for everybody. I really want to work with someone with experience (like a sponsor) who is able to support me, guide me, but also hear me out. Staying sober alone is incredibly difficult. The best sponsor I had to date, my sponsor's biggest gift was accepting me as I was and not making me feel worse than I already did, helping me see I'm a worthy person. I want to find other people I can talk with, where we can explore and grow into joyful sobriety together.
And I had to stop working with my sponsor because 1) since I was actually sober I always came 5th behind everyone else who had gone out .... so while I was hanging on hanging on hanging on trying hard to be sober and needing help, the people drunk on the street always came before me month after month. And 2) that whole situation with my sponsor getting arrested on a felony rather got in the way of communicating.
And I had to stop working with my sponsor because 1) since I was actually sober I always came 5th behind everyone else who had gone out .... so while I was hanging on hanging on hanging on trying hard to be sober and needing help, the people drunk on the street always came before me month after month. And 2) that whole situation with my sponsor getting arrested on a felony rather got in the way of communicating.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
LOL!! And now I'm finding I don't feel very good ... I've spent 2 hours trying to find someplace maybe I can get help online, I'm sharing these unhappy things, and while this may help overall in time, it's not helping me right now!!! :-)
I see the abbreviations and I'm trying to find a list somewhere to see what they mean and understand what you're talking about, and meanwhile I need to start work and I haven't even had breakfast yet or finished my morning necessaries!! LOL!!
I see the abbreviations and I'm trying to find a list somewhere to see what they mean and understand what you're talking about, and meanwhile I need to start work and I haven't even had breakfast yet or finished my morning necessaries!! LOL!!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Originally Posted by Bwat 
Also re the powerlessness ... this concept had me staying far from AA for many years. Growing up being so powerless, when I finally started feeling empowered in myself, the last thing I wanted to do was to say I was powerless again!!
But *one* thing I got from one of the meetings is the idea that we are powerless over alcohol, as in just one, and we can't stop. We can't "choose" to stop after one - if we could, we wouldn't be here.
When they phrased it as an allergy, at first I resisted the concept, but then they provided the idea that it's an unusual reaction to something. Like a peanut allergy
But *one* thing I got from one of the meetings is the idea that we are powerless over alcohol, as in just one, and we can't stop. We can't "choose" to stop after one - if we could, we wouldn't be here.
When they phrased it as an allergy, at first I resisted the concept, but then they provided the idea that it's an unusual reaction to something. Like a peanut allergy
For me the reason meetings are so important is like the above example. We are privileged to receive “pearls” from each meeting that has meaning to us. We can’t absorb too many at once and may suddenly hear one that we heard many times before but never sunk in and is needed on that day. That’s the way it works for me.
The more different meetings the better my chances are with sobriety.
BE WELL
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Yes, well after going out more times than I can count, nearly dying about 4 times from alcohol consumption, losing several jobs because fellow AA'ers decided to "out me" in front of my boss, struggling at length for weeks with the desire to commit suicide as a result of the way I was treated when I went to AA for help - to end up with *one* nugget after all that is an extraordinarily high price to pay.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 155
I agree with all said.
I went to AA and said to myself.....yeah, this is NOT for me, wow not even close to what I was looking for.
The very next thought was.......yeah, how many people in this room would be dead right now without it?
I heard in only a few meetings so many stories of people who were so nice but found themselves in such terrible places (good to hear potential of abuse BTW) who were now years and years clean with the assistance of AA, can't argue against results like I was hearing.
If it isn't for you, Google - alternatives to AA . There are others, and they aren't mutually exclusive. I have gone to one alternative and many there go to both. (I have been 50% to AA and 50% to the alternative) For myself....just as a check-in, to stay grounded.
I went to AA and said to myself.....yeah, this is NOT for me, wow not even close to what I was looking for.
The very next thought was.......yeah, how many people in this room would be dead right now without it?
I heard in only a few meetings so many stories of people who were so nice but found themselves in such terrible places (good to hear potential of abuse BTW) who were now years and years clean with the assistance of AA, can't argue against results like I was hearing.
If it isn't for you, Google - alternatives to AA . There are others, and they aren't mutually exclusive. I have gone to one alternative and many there go to both. (I have been 50% to AA and 50% to the alternative) For myself....just as a check-in, to stay grounded.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
I very much believe in Law of Attraction - you get more of what you focus on (aka don't focus on the problem, focus on the solution) - I am aware much of my desire to not go to AA meetings is because people talk about how horrible things were when they were drinking. Very little is said about how good their lives are now, or even IF they are good, even at a "gratitude meeting".
I want an awesome, sober, happy life. I want to learn how to get there. I know I don't have all the answers and need help, guidance, fellowship.
There will be times I want to vent, and I'm learning about myself that talking out the problem *really* helps me get clarity on the situation - clarity I do not get when I'm home alone in my head by myself. But ultimately out of every experience I want to learn - is it great? Ok I want to learn what's great about it so I can get more of that. Did it suck? OK I want to learn why it sucked and what I can do about it so I can make it better next time.
Even in this today I am getting knowledge, information, and clarity I did not have before I came here and was alone in my head with myself.
I want an awesome, sober, happy life. I want to learn how to get there. I know I don't have all the answers and need help, guidance, fellowship.
There will be times I want to vent, and I'm learning about myself that talking out the problem *really* helps me get clarity on the situation - clarity I do not get when I'm home alone in my head by myself. But ultimately out of every experience I want to learn - is it great? Ok I want to learn what's great about it so I can get more of that. Did it suck? OK I want to learn why it sucked and what I can do about it so I can make it better next time.
Even in this today I am getting knowledge, information, and clarity I did not have before I came here and was alone in my head with myself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Regarding the alternatives to AA - 12 stepping thrives where I am. I have not found any alternatives. Other alternatives I have found get everything alone from a book, there is no community, no discussion, no talking one alcoholic to another.
I would really like to find another option, a way, something. I am doing the best I can on my own, but I know I could do so much better in a group, with guidance, with people who have been there done that, or maybe have a different way of looking at a situation.
And folks happily sober and happy being sober!! I get there is definitely work involved, but I don't think it has to be a miserable pity party 24-7 either!
I would really like to find another option, a way, something. I am doing the best I can on my own, but I know I could do so much better in a group, with guidance, with people who have been there done that, or maybe have a different way of looking at a situation.
And folks happily sober and happy being sober!! I get there is definitely work involved, but I don't think it has to be a miserable pity party 24-7 either!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northeast, US
Posts: 2,073
You'd need to find the right group and sponsor. As someone who has tried without a major outside support mechanism like AA many times and keeps failing. I'd say you might try to ignore those things you don't agree with and keep at AA. Like anywhere else you are going to encounter all kinds, even some really stupid people with real time under their belt. But you can ignore them.
My psychiatrist said to me, in his sarcastic Brit accent, in April 2013, "So do you think you'll be one of the magic people who does this without AA??" And I said, "Yes, Do you see people have much success without it?" Answer, "Not really." He was right. At this point the heavy lifting would be over and I would have to maintain sobriety and vigilance, but I'd be in a waaaay better spot.
My psychiatrist said to me, in his sarcastic Brit accent, in April 2013, "So do you think you'll be one of the magic people who does this without AA??" And I said, "Yes, Do you see people have much success without it?" Answer, "Not really." He was right. At this point the heavy lifting would be over and I would have to maintain sobriety and vigilance, but I'd be in a waaaay better spot.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Bwat, you're in a tough situation. On one hand, you want what AA has to offer. On the other, you cannot apply the philosophy of the program to your mindset.
Think of it like going to dance only to hear the music. You can sit (be a 'wallflower') and listen to the music, but you don't have to dance. You can engage in conversation about the 'music'. You can exchange ideas or just take it all in.
You can sit there and listen and keep your criticism to yourself. Get what you need from the social aspect of it. Yet you can also educate yourself on the various other methods people have used to stay sober. Until there are optional sobriety related social groups near you, AA is all you got. Take advantage of it.
Think of it like going to dance only to hear the music. You can sit (be a 'wallflower') and listen to the music, but you don't have to dance. You can engage in conversation about the 'music'. You can exchange ideas or just take it all in.
You can sit there and listen and keep your criticism to yourself. Get what you need from the social aspect of it. Yet you can also educate yourself on the various other methods people have used to stay sober. Until there are optional sobriety related social groups near you, AA is all you got. Take advantage of it.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,536
I get there is definitely work involved, but I don't think it has to be a miserable pity party 24-7 either!
It took me awhile before I found a meeting of like minded folks for my face to face time. SR is a godsend, too.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Well, I really want to have an awesome sober life. So that means I will not again go to any meeting in my small remote town. Because I value myself, my life, my mental health, and my sobriety. So I need another solution.
I have a really hard time ignoring the things I don't like in AA because I always feel so crappy when I am there. I go in happy, I come out wanting to drink, or cry, or give up on life. I try listening to something useful but it's the same thing from the same people every day for three years. I could go on about it but I don't feel good doing that.
People are stuck in their problem, they use "progress not perfection" as a way to keep being an a**, and see absolutely nothing wrong with picking up another unhealthy addiction to replace their alcoholism. I'm not talking about they were a smoker drinking and now they're a smoker sober. I'm talking about they were not a smoker drinking and now they are. They were fit and exercised, now they overeat and are 300 lbs. They had a job, but they quit and now live in the homeless shelter, on food stamps, and spend nearly their entire waking lives at the clubhouse. This is not what I aspire to, this does not uplift and motivate me.
And if I do not do what the dirty, disheveled homeless guy says ... because he supposedly has double digits recovery (even though I see him misusing other illegal drugs outside the rooms) ... then I'm being willful. If I do not do what I am told, even if I know full well it will put my life and my future in jeopardy, I am being willful and I'm not really ready to be sober.
The people I find who ARE what I aspire to, who DO have double digit recovery, who ARE having successful and happy lives, DO NOT GO TO MEETINGS, because in their own words THE MEETINGS ARE CRAZY AND RUN LIKE A MADHOUSE, and IS NOT REAL AA HERE.
Plus ... how am I supposed to know what works? I hear one thing in the rooms, and see the person doing the opposite outside the rooms. I hear people say things, but their lives are a complete wreck and chaos ... maybe they are better lives as they are sober than they were when they were drinking ... but when I see what they have I don't want it. I want the sober part, but nothing else.
Find someone who is working a good program ... how do I do that? ... well you find them because when you work the program you will recognize them ... how do I work the program ... you need to find someone who is working a good program ... how do I recognize someone who is working a good program? by working the program .... There is a problem with that circle of logic!
I value my life. Going to a meeting where I come out wanting to drink, feeling depressed and miserable, hearing the same things over and over, seeing the incongruities and it making absolutely no sense doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where people are depressed about being sober doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where it's cut short to 30 minutes, of which 20 is reading the cards, 5 minutes is saying hello, 5 is asking questions, which are then left to just sit on the table to rot, doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where I can see all around me people are only giving lip service to the program, the book, the traditions, the steps *and not following it* doesn't help me. Knowing if I go to a meeting, that I was there, anything I say there, (or anything they make up in their head about me or things I said), any one I talk to there, will be spread all around my town to my employers, friends, clients, business associates, does not help me.
There is NO anonymity in ANY of the 12 step programs here. "Anything you hear here or see here ..." spreads like wildfire through the entire community.
This does not help me.
I have a really hard time ignoring the things I don't like in AA because I always feel so crappy when I am there. I go in happy, I come out wanting to drink, or cry, or give up on life. I try listening to something useful but it's the same thing from the same people every day for three years. I could go on about it but I don't feel good doing that.
People are stuck in their problem, they use "progress not perfection" as a way to keep being an a**, and see absolutely nothing wrong with picking up another unhealthy addiction to replace their alcoholism. I'm not talking about they were a smoker drinking and now they're a smoker sober. I'm talking about they were not a smoker drinking and now they are. They were fit and exercised, now they overeat and are 300 lbs. They had a job, but they quit and now live in the homeless shelter, on food stamps, and spend nearly their entire waking lives at the clubhouse. This is not what I aspire to, this does not uplift and motivate me.
And if I do not do what the dirty, disheveled homeless guy says ... because he supposedly has double digits recovery (even though I see him misusing other illegal drugs outside the rooms) ... then I'm being willful. If I do not do what I am told, even if I know full well it will put my life and my future in jeopardy, I am being willful and I'm not really ready to be sober.
The people I find who ARE what I aspire to, who DO have double digit recovery, who ARE having successful and happy lives, DO NOT GO TO MEETINGS, because in their own words THE MEETINGS ARE CRAZY AND RUN LIKE A MADHOUSE, and IS NOT REAL AA HERE.
Plus ... how am I supposed to know what works? I hear one thing in the rooms, and see the person doing the opposite outside the rooms. I hear people say things, but their lives are a complete wreck and chaos ... maybe they are better lives as they are sober than they were when they were drinking ... but when I see what they have I don't want it. I want the sober part, but nothing else.
Find someone who is working a good program ... how do I do that? ... well you find them because when you work the program you will recognize them ... how do I work the program ... you need to find someone who is working a good program ... how do I recognize someone who is working a good program? by working the program .... There is a problem with that circle of logic!
I value my life. Going to a meeting where I come out wanting to drink, feeling depressed and miserable, hearing the same things over and over, seeing the incongruities and it making absolutely no sense doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where people are depressed about being sober doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where it's cut short to 30 minutes, of which 20 is reading the cards, 5 minutes is saying hello, 5 is asking questions, which are then left to just sit on the table to rot, doesn't help me. Going to a meeting where I can see all around me people are only giving lip service to the program, the book, the traditions, the steps *and not following it* doesn't help me. Knowing if I go to a meeting, that I was there, anything I say there, (or anything they make up in their head about me or things I said), any one I talk to there, will be spread all around my town to my employers, friends, clients, business associates, does not help me.
There is NO anonymity in ANY of the 12 step programs here. "Anything you hear here or see here ..." spreads like wildfire through the entire community.
This does not help me.
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