Meraviglioso

I would really like to attend AA meetings. I had thought about it about a year ago, even called to get the info but was vehemently discouraged by those close to me. They told me that here, in Italy, seeking help for alcoholism was worse than just plain having a problem with alcohol. I was told that here people don't take it as seriously and my privacy would not be guaranteed and that I would be putting myself and my children at risk by attending.
I also received information from an American alcoholism specialist that in Europe they do not insist on absolute sobriety but rather work towards obtaining moderate drinking. This is not what I need. I have already proven to myself time and time again that I cannot moderate.
So, if I am going to risk a lot (losing my children, town-wide embarrassment, etc) I need to be sure it will be worth it.
My town only has one, Italian speaking, meeting a week. I could make arrangements for childcare, etc to see to it that I get there, but again, I need to be sure it will be worth it.
Has anyone had experience with AA in Italy and/or Europe?

littlefish

Yes. That is really surprising what people had to say about AA in Italy. To be honest, I find myself reacting with a bit of skepticism.
Privacy: anyone who is going to out you by saying they saw you at a meeting, is outing themselves, right? Did that person say that from experience, or just was guessing that it is like that?
The alcoholism specialist comments about "Europe" sound, well, uninformed. Moderation is not a part of the AA program at all, period. No way.
Most large European cities have International AA meetings in English.
If you are worried about attending the AA meeting in your town, can you try another town?

Pipefish

Hello

Well, on my travels, I've been to meetings in Italy (Rome) Spain (Barcelona, Tossa Del Mar), & Holland (Tiele, Amsterdam, Breda) & Brussels/Ostende. Meetings have been English speaking & the format & principles with regard to anonymity have been exactly the same as meetings I've attended in the UK, Southern Ireland & America.

The reservations expressed in your post, are these from fellow AA members, or is it more to do with family concern, fear of any attendant stigma through your attening? If the latter, a good bet may be to make contact with the European GSO to see if they can provide any literature for you on the principle of anonymity in AA.

And the other poster here is quite right....anyone identifying you is also outing themselves, so best not to let that put you off, particularly as AA saves lives when it comes to alcoholism

Hope you find the information you need & wish you well

Sasha4

Who do you mean by 'they'?
Because what 'they' have told you is utter rubbish.
'They' are really misinformed and the views 'they' hold are incredibly dangerous and down right ridiculous.

The bit about moderation is really wrong.
There is no European version of the 12 steps of AA.
There is no European big book.
To say it is not taken seriously in Europe is a very offensive statement.

There seems to be some pre-conception about drinking in Europe. I remember a poster here from a few years ago saying that drinking when pregnant can't be that bad because women in Europe are advised they can in moderation.

No we don't. We follow the same advice as the rest of the world.
Addiction is the same the world over.
Saying that the solution in Europe for alcoholism is to moderate is akin to saying that just taking a bit of heroin is okay as opposed to stopping all together and that will solve someone's heroin addiction.

Are you sure the American doctor you spoke to was a real doctor?!!! Did you check he didn't buy his degree from the Disney gift shop or the internet?!

At the end of the day it does not matter where you are in the world, if you have a drink problem it can kill you. Whether you are European or not does not even enter the equation.

The statement about children makes me so sad and angry too.
So going to AA may negatively impact your children, but continuing to drink problematically will not?!!!

Regarding the shame of entering AA..............if people are going to gossip about someone trying to seek help then that really is a sad state of affairs.

In my opinion I would rather be talked about for doing something good in relation to my drinking than being the local laughing stock village drunk.

This post has really made me angry and cross and just demonstrates the ignorance there is surrounding AA and addiction.

Meraviglioso

I certainly didn't mean to make you angry, but trust me, I have felt anger over this too. The consensus is- and by consensus I mean everyone I know- that being seen getting help is much worse than actually having a problem. This makes absolutely no sense to me. None. My psychologist warned me of this for god's sake. I wanted to go to both AA and an outpatient rehab center. She warned me that if doing it alone was at all an option I should choose that because being seen going into one of those places would not be good. My psychologist! Every single one of my friends, including an ex heroin addict warned me not to go. The ex heroin addict told me that he would not go to the rehab center, he arranged for a doctor to come to his work to administer the medication.
I am not ashamed at admitting I have a problem or addressing it. However, with the information I have- and that is all I have to go off of really- dealing with this on my own seems to be the best solution.

IOAA2

Hi. For those wanting to be and stay sober they will go to ANY length. It’s said in AA that sobriety is our number 1 priority. Everything/one takes second place. This disease is not a haphazard game played for our desires, as shown it’s very serious. I’ve seen many people leave much behind to maintain sobriety. Part of getting sober is we need change in our lives and many are stubborn doing that.

BE WELL

FreeOwl

You and your children are at arguably greater risk if you continue to struggle with alcoholism.

Eddiebuckle

Meraviglioso,

If you believe you are able to get and stay sober on your own, by all means try it. But be honest about your success or lack thereof. If you are unable to manage this solo, obviously you will need to try a more comprehensive solution.

Be very clear about this, however: alcoholism does not "get better." There were times in my life where it was easier to manage than others, but invariably I drank more over time because it took more to satisfy my addiction. Ultimately, I relented and sought help. Only then was I able to quit and stay sober.

Ruby2

I googled AA gso (general service office) after reading this and then ran a query on their site "AA Italy." There appeared to be a GSO in Rome at least as far back as 1981. I would imagine that there still is since Italy has been sending AA member delegates to global conventions since then and alcoholism is still a problem for many people. I would start by googling and contacting the general service office in Rome.

There is still shame attached to being a problem drinker, in some segments of life, as if we have some moral weakness. I'm not a bad person but once I drink one drink, I can't stop. It isn't a moral issue. Well meaning people will minimize or deny that the alcoholic has a problem because it somehow flies in the face of their orderly construct of life. It somehow diminishes them and reflects on them so they deny, deny, deny. That doesn't make the problem go away. Probably much like my 19 year old mother telling her Catholic family she was pregnant with me and not married back in 1964 and her own sister telling her she had to walk down the alley and enter the house through the back door because what if the neighbors saw? What would the neighbors think? That my aunt was a bad person from a morally weak family because my mother got pregnant out of wedlock?

Call the gso. Talk to someone there about your concerns about the information you have been getting from family and well meaning friends. It is your life at issue, not theirs. My family was distressed when I announced I had a drinking problem that I needed help for but they are now very supportive. Even though they have a hard time maintaining my anonymity by talking to other people in doing so some of their friends " came out" as it were as alcoholics who actively participate in AA and my parents are now more educated. When you learn that a judge, a priest, a nun, an electrician, a plumber, a salesman are alcoholics too, it shows it isn't just the homeless man under a bridge who is the face of an alcoholic.

Do this for you. And for your children. I was a horribly absent mother while I was stuck in the bottle. You don't want them to remember you passed out on the couch.

Sorry this is long. I feel for you. I am used to now knowing through my participation in AA that there is an alcoholic in practically every other house in my neighborhood. Slight exaggeration. The shame here is seeing someone who obviously has a drinking problem and doesn't get help with all the resources and support available. Please don't let other people put up walls for you when it comes to seeking help.

desypete

i have no idea how aa runs in Italy, but it should be the same all over the world, i have been to austrialia and when i went to local meeting out there it was a bit different in the format but when the meeting got going it was just the same as it was back home
ie drunk sharing there experience strength and hope with each other

so i dont see how or why that would be any different in Italy ? but like i say, i have no experience out there
why not try a meeting out there and see how it goes ?

Meraviglioso

Thanks for all the responses. I am totally with you guys here, just to be clear. I want to do whatever it takes to remain sober. I WANT to find a face to face support system. I am seeing a psychologist but I had actively sought out help from a treatment center and AA. The treatment center was out patient. They wanted to give me some medications to help with detox and to help with cravings during the first weeks. They could not give the medications to me- an admitted alcoholic- I had to find someone who could come and get the medications on my behalf and sign saying they would be sure I got them. I was ready for this. I held my head up high going into the appointments. I was proud and happy to be seeking help. But I couldn't find a single person who would come with me. Not a single person- and trust me I reached far and wide- who would come to sign out the medications. I was in hysterics and my boyfriend agreed to come. So we went to the appointment to pick up the meds and he "thought [he] saw a friend's car" and literally ran off. Like, RAN AWAY. I was astounded.
So as I didn't have anyone to get the medication for me I skipped the rehab center thing. I then looked into AA and again, people were very discouraging. I live in a small town and according to the people I know- including doctors, psychologists, pharmacists, teachers- it could be problematic to be seen seeking help. Basically I might get drunk "now and again" which is really embarrassing and bad, but if I seek out help I am admitting I have a problem and that is worse. I am with all of you, I don't understand it. But these people who are looking out for me (obviously whether or not they are doing what is right is debatable) have told me horror stories of mothers being ostracized, their children being shunned and teased.... I can deal with people being rude to me. I don't need to explain anything to them. But I do not want my kids to be affected. That is the part that worries me.

FreeOwl

if you have addiction struggles....

your children will thank you the most for recognizing that and getting the help you need to live the choice of sobriety.

No amount of potential negative backlash - real or imagined - will ever outweigh the benefits of you being there for them, full and present, the best possible parent you can be.

littlefish

This makes no sense to me. Why can't a rehab center prescribe medicine? Was it actually a rehab?
Belief me, I have been to outpatient rehab and there is nothing they prescribe that is potentially addictive. They may prescribe a relaxer for detox under direct supervision, but after that, the meds are things like antabuse, campral and naltrexone. All completely non addictive.
This is your life, your body, your future and potentially your coffin if this disease is allowed to run its course.
It seems like you are at a crossroads. Will you allow other people's fears of some perceived embarrassment in the village be the basis of your decisions? Will you allow people to blow you off with demands for someone else to sign for your meds?

It sounds like there is more to your struggle than drinking: it sounds like life is challenging you to stand up for yourself and demand what you need. I hope you find that strength!

Meraviglioso

The program I was trying to get into was part of the state funded care we have here. It is totally legit with a full staff of doctors and psychologists. It is absolutely the rule that someone else get the meds. On top of that, only doctors at these centers can prescribe those medications. I asked my psychiatrist as well as a pharmacist friend and a doctor friend and they both confirmed that this is Italian law.
I appreciate you pointing out the possibility that I may have trouble advocating for myself. While I agree that my posts on this thread have sounded a bit spineless I am actually quite strong willed. I would really like face to face support but I also do not feel as though it will be impossible to face sobriety without that. As I mentioned, there is only one meeting per week in the area I live in, it wouldn't be daily support anyway. I think it is often easy to write things out and insist on routes and rules and hardfast methods, but in the real space and time of everyday life things are different. As much as it would be lovely to do whatever I wanted to do, ignoring all fear, embarasent, uncertainty, that is difficult to do. I can acknowledge that it is stupid of me to feel afraid, embarrassed or uncertain, but emotions aren't right or wrong, they just ARE. After having every single person I have spoken to about this- including my psychologist- suggest I consider alternatives, I find just going ahead a bit intimidating and dare I say reckless.
I do appreciate the concern of others and definitely have to think on this some more. Thanks especially to those who wrote about their first hand experiences.

Ruby2

I can see your dilemma. Maybe if you made contact somehow with the local AA chapter someone there could go with you for the medication? That is just me throwing out ideas of how to tackle this. I don't know if you are Catholic but maybe a priest? There are a lot of priests here that are in AA.

When I went into detox we were given Valium or benzos for the withdrawal which are addictive so I am kind of understanding why they want someone to "vouch" for the medication. Do you have any non Italians in your support network who might be less invested in saving face? If push came to shove, maybe call the US embassy or consulate, anonymously, if need be, to ask if there is such a thing as a medical advocate? I think you said you are an American expat.

Keep coming here to puzzle this out. It helps me to write things out to sort through them.

Croissant

Could you phone the treatment centre itself (the one your psychologist warned against) and see what their opinion is?

It seems you've asked a lot of people already, so who cares about the stigma or anonymity? Just because people are ignorant, it's not your problem.

P.s. Disregard the above. It was more support, not first hand experience. I do understand you are trying and frustrated and there seems to be a lot of barriers. Sorry to hear that.