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I am so used to doing this

Old 07-23-2014, 10:28 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mabel4 View Post
TY Dee. I don't know, it isn't that I don't love myself. I think I don't treat people poorly, I don't actually hate who I am. I am a "stand up girl," always. I just do not know how to make myself special enough for them to care about me. And when sober? If I am not working so hard to make them care, I feel like I have no purpose in life. And me alone feels, well, lonely. And you can't live your whole life alone, but I wonder why I am never enough for the people I seek. I guess that's it.
Because you're spending so much time and effort trying to make people like you. That's the short version. The longer, more complicated and potentially life-changing version resides in your relationship with a trained professional.

A lot of shame in your comments. You're "pathetic" because you have to "pay someone to hear you?" You reach out for help here (in this case, without paying for it...at least so far), but you proceed to turn down that help because, and by doing otherwise, you'd be admitting that you need help by accepting it. So then, therapists are only for people who don't actually need help; and not for those who, by virtue of needing help, are thereby "pathetic." Okay. Now I'm making myself dizzy.

You may be right. You may not actually have a purpose in life. But how much longer are you willing to wait to start building or allow yourself to discover what's meaningful for you? You can start by stop being someone you think other people will like, and redirect your energies and your attention towards discovering who you truly are.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:00 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Hello Mabel. Thanks for starting this thread reading your story an the comments really helped me out, and I'm sure gave you something to think about.. You say you have problems making friends but you just made a bunch today, it's probably because you weren't trying so hard to you we're just being you, even if it's a hurt side of you.. So when your out in the world just do the same thing except show them the great side of you good luck
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:14 PM
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Therapists get paid because they've made what they love their life's work. We don't merely "listen to people's problems;" we help them come to know themselves and their desires, evaluate what it is in life/themselves that blocks them from getting what they want and need, and provide a safe place in which to make genuine contact with another human being, something that, for many people, doesn't occur anywhere else in their lives, and certainly not often enough...No matter how much we may convince ourselves that we're horrified by the very thought of such a thing. And no matter how supportive we are, people generally don't like the observations we make about them. And that's only part of it.

I love my work, though practicing psychotherapy is only a small part of it, and I think about my patients a good deal of my time away from them. There are so many daily occurrences and interactions that remind me of them, including my own inner life, that I'd be hard pressed not to think about them, even if I were merely indifferent towards their struggles.

If denial is a cardinal element of what we refer to as "alcoholism," then it's at least as much of a blessing and a curse in virtually every other issue that we as human beings deal with in life. None of us wants to "have problems," but only a sober and authentic self is able to do anything to improve his or her lot. Living an inauthentic life (or Socrates' "unexamined life") is indeed not worth living. That's my bias, and I'm sticking to it. We have as many ways to bury ourselves alive as we do to lie to and generally deceive ourselves, with or without booze, about anything and everything that pains us.

In my professional life, one of the most challenging of patients -- and often the most heartbreaking to work with -- is the man or woman who comes in later in life, realizing that they spent the previous fifty or sixty years living someone else's life. What, exactly, does 'hope' look like for someone like that? And what, if anything, does it even mean?

Life awaits, but not forever.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:49 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mabel4 View Post
I don't really want to least. I don't want to pay for someone to love me. Seems f*cked up.
Hi Mabel4,

Sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment, hang in there things will get better.

I have to say I attend counselling every week (We're very lucky in Scotland that this is free) but even if this wasnt, Id GLADLY hand over my hard earned cash every week to have gained what I have in doing this.

Speaking to someone non judgmental and who you can truly speak to warts and all has been a huge asset to me. I finally feel I'm getting somewhere, but that's been down to me. It makes me proud of myself just for being able to get through that.

Why not give it a try? What you got to lose?

L x
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:26 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Sobreity in itself won't create an awe inspiring, jump our of bed in the morning, fun filled, action packed life, we can just as easily sit in front of the TV every evening lonely and bored with a cup of tea in the same way when we were drinking.

Non drinkers can feel isolated from the world aswell as drinkers, Sobreity is only a foundation, and a foundation isn't good for much on it's own, it's only useful if you go on to build a house on it!!
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:37 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Mabel
When you wen to AA did you do the steps and then try to practise the principles?.
How much and often did you engage in helping other sufferers?
Have you considered that you might be paying a therapist to help uncover your root problems and suggest a way forward that requires action on your part?
Not just to listen to you......
G
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:47 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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I have never been, but many people like AA. My father (who was sober 30 years before his death) went to AA when I was a kid, he too didn't have any friend, yes he had mom and his children, but he actually made friends there,for 1st time since he was a kid...a few that he felt comfy with for many years. Even if youdon't make life friend, you will be with people who are like minded. Just a thought.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:32 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mabel4 View Post
Am I that pathetic? That I need to spend money (which I don't really have) to pay someone to hear what I think, how I feel, how I care?
I am listening and you have not paid me a dime. I care how you feel as everyone else that has responded to your post.

I hear a pity party going on but that is okay too, we all throw them.

I used to think I wanted to be alone. It was the only time I felt okay. Dealing with others was to much work. All that conversation and mumbo jumbo. "F" that. Just leave me to my own devices so I could watch my TV marathons with my dog and my cats. Who needs those people anyway? Just leave me alone. If I am alone I am okay!

I have found that is not the case at all. The reason I had no friends was because one, I pushed them all away and two because I was not being a friend. I took and took and took but never gave back. Call a friend just to ask how they are, Nope!. Offer to help a friend? Nope. Send a birthday card to a friend? Nope. Call and ask to get together for dinner or a movie? Nope. Nothing ever at anytime for any reason. I was extremely lazy when it came to keeping relationships alive.

Once I got sober and saw that I was really a selfish person in this regard I did make some small changes but I have come to the point that I don't really need everyday contact with people that I call my friends just as they do not need everyday contact with me. I am not living with them, they are not my SO, they are a friend.

I see many people at AA meetings that I call friends but I don't talk to them everyday. They are significant people in my life and I hope I am one in theirs but I also have my own life to live.

There are times I am alone, but I am not lonely. I am comfortable with myself which I never had when I was drinking. I drank to try and make myself comfortable whether it was in a room full of people or I was sitting alone on my couch.

I am the same person I was before but I look at things differently. My family did not change, my job did not change, my home did not change, I did.

You appear to have gotten tired of being sober because nothing changed, did you change?
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:32 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Hi Mabel,

You may be tired of hearing this, but even your thread title suggests that you seem to have a resistance to change, probably even change of thinking and mental perspective. As far as I have seen and experienced, this is the number one reason that often keeps us from making meaningful improvements in our lives. "I am so used to doing this" - it's exactly why it happens, because we feel more comfortable doing what's familiar than what's unfamiliar. While we put the external world up to high expectations and wait for it to bring us the so desired happiness. The reality is, whether we like it or not: this is utterly impossible or the rewarding effect won't last long.

You have discussed a few things: that years of sobriety did not make a difference in your life, that you have no friends and find it difficult to have others' attention and care, and that you are against having a mental health professional to help you. The common pattern I see in all these things is the resistance to working on your root problems.

You can read it all over this board that virtually no one has succeeded at turning over their lives in sobriety just by the virtue of abstinence from our drug(s) of choice. People often discuss that it takes changing just about everything in our lives, or for sure making multiple, major long-term changes. From your comments is sounds that you have not done much of this.

When it comes to human connection, friendship and relationships - these also require a great deal of work, and not just in the beginning, constantly. I believe that "unconditional love" is something we may get from pets, or the love parents feel for their children may be like that, and it may be associated with saints - but it's not how most human relationships work. Everyone is "special" and unique by definition, that's not what attracts attention. It's how we use our attributes and potentials and how we are willing to actively work on the connection. I think people are usually willing to forgive a lot of mistreatment and betrayal even if otherwise the relationship and our hearts are in the right place and this is demonstrated in our actions. We don't get rewarded for perfection, but for effort.

Finally, psychotherapy is no different. A therapist's attention is indeed a service, but I think it's also like other relationships in that even professionals will be more excited and motivated to work with us if we display genuine interest and engagement. They are humans, not machines. And their listening and providing feedback is far from enough - in the end, we have to make the work and make the changes that we want to see, by active participation also outside of the office, we need to put the gained knowledge in good use. Seeking help is only the beginning, but it's a good start.

So in summary, I see this resistance in your comments regarding a variety of areas and feel that you should probably work on breaking that. There are options to do it, but we need to seek these out and then actively participate in the resolution. Our self-esteem can also only grow in healthy ways by demonstrating to ourselves that we are involved in our own lives and making it happen.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:54 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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some really awesome advice and words in here.
Mabel, thanks for sharing how you are feeling. Just by posting that, you have helped numerous other people who are feeling exactly what you are, and by reading others advice...you have helped. SEE?
I hope you feel better today keep posting. we're all in the same boat lady!
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:07 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by haennie View Post
Hi Mabel,

You may be tired of hearing this, but even your thread title suggests that you seem to have a resistance to change, probably even change of thinking and mental perspective. As far as I have seen and experienced, this is the number one reason that often keeps us from making meaningful improvements in our lives. "I am so used to doing this" - it's exactly why it happens, because we feel more comfortable doing what's familiar than what's unfamiliar. While we put the external world up to high expectations and wait for it to bring us the so desired happiness. The reality is, whether we like it or not: this is utterly impossible or the rewarding effect won't last long.

You have discussed a few things: that years of sobriety did not make a difference in your life, that you have no friends and find it difficult to have others' attention and care, and that you are against having a mental health professional to help you. The common pattern I see in all these things is the resistance to working on your root problems.

You can read it all over this board that virtually no one has succeeded at turning over their lives in sobriety just by the virtue of abstinence from our drug(s) of choice. People often discuss that it takes changing just about everything in our lives, or for sure making multiple, major long-term changes. From your comments is sounds that you have not done much of this.

When it comes to human connection, friendship and relationships - these also require a great deal of work, and not just in the beginning, constantly. I believe that "unconditional love" is something we may get from pets, or the love parents feel for their children may be like that, and it may be associated with saints - but it's not how most human relationships work. Everyone is "special" and unique by definition, that's not what attracts attention. It's how we use our attributes and potentials and how we are willing to actively work on the connection. I think people are usually willing to forgive a lot of mistreatment and betrayal even if otherwise the relationship and our hearts are in the right place and this is demonstrated in our actions. We don't get rewarded for perfection, but for effort.

Finally, psychotherapy is no different. A therapist's attention is indeed a service, but I think it's also like other relationships in that even professionals will be more excited and motivated to work with us if we display genuine interest and engagement. They are humans, not machines. And their listening and providing feedback is far from enough - in the end, we have to make the work and make the changes that we want to see, by active participation also outside of the office, we need to put the gained knowledge in good use. Seeking help is only the beginning, but it's a good start.

So in summary, I see this resistance in your comments regarding a variety of areas and feel that you should probably work on breaking that. There are options to do it, but we need to seek these out and then actively participate in the resolution. Our self-esteem can also only grow in healthy ways by demonstrating to ourselves that we are involved in our own lives and making it happen.
Outstanding!

As for the highlighted part, this tendency eventually becomes a way of living, how we define ourselves, eating away at us with impunity and determining everything meaningful that occurs -- and more often than not, doesn't occur -- forever after.
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