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Advised by AA oldtimer that I'm not desperate enough for AA

Old 07-17-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by IOAA2 View Post
The words were: "She said maybe I just wasn't desperate enough and if AA wasn't working for me after 30 days I should go out and see if I eventually hit a bottom that would prepare me better for the program."

good catch on the "maybe" thing.

and since OP said this:
"I've been feeling dissatisfied and frustrated with AA in my 10 days so reached out to someone I heard speak a year ago.."

maybe, since that was said a year ago and OP has 10 days, maybe it would be wise to think about it? maybe she was right?

but more important:
do you want what we have?( a description of what we have can be found in the big book)
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by miamifella View Post
If you read the thread you will see that many of us have heard it. I myself was told many times (and heard it said to others many times). The exact wording was usually, "Go back out and come back when you hit a real bottom."

When I was in the program it was a standard answer for anyone having problems with the second or third step--or for someone with multiple relapses.

What it really is, is a form of self-aggrandizement. The message is, "I was a bigger drunk than you, I had a rougher awakening than you, I am tougher and more stubborn than you."

I think it comes from a resentment against people who decided to seek help before losing it all.

I tried to do the same kind of interpretive dance we see in this thread, to somehow convince myself that it was okay to say this or that it was misheard or that they were just trying to wake the newbie up or that they are longer in recovery so they know better.

But eventually I just had to get honest, say that this was wrong, and get out.
forgive me but i dont attend usa aa meetings i am from the uk and i have never heard anyone tell anyone aa is not for them if i did believe me they wouldnt ever say it again in my company as i would call them out for it, as its not what aa is about

i dont make a decision on who should be in aa or not aa is open for all, no matter what stage in life there at

there are some meetings around my area that are more 12 step god big book types were the fellowship within them make me feel uncomfortable that i woudnt go back as there sort of demanding you do it there way or else you will drink again
they get high on telling people this as they believe there speaking the truth from god
its ugly to me that sort of thing but we do have them in aa in the uk and i certainly can not defend them for some of the things they have done

no one is perfect in aa its a free organization run by people who suffer from the same illness
its a self help group so there are no experts in aa all we have is our own experiences to share with others and help them based on how well we are in our time around

if your looking for perfection then please by all means dig deep in your wallets and go to the experts who have trained for this
and indeed if you drink again after going to the experts i am sure you can sue them to get your money back right ?

or to a treatment centre i am sure they come along with money back guarantees also if you drink again ?

sadly there is no known cure for this anywhere but there are sure a hell of a lot of people who are convinced they have found a cure so there right

they then set about trying to rubbish all the other organizations out there as there right and all the others are wrong

if they can find a single fault with aa they will shout from the rooftops and ignore anything else

its kinda hard for aa as its a free place costs nothing its world wide has saved millions of lives yet is always under fire simply because that is human nature.

every single memeber in aa owns aa and is aa its there fellowship to do with as they see fit
so if they want to run a meeting and all sit around drinking booze all night long they can
there are simply no rules at all in aa

now how on earth does anything work in life without rules ?
this forum has rules, everywhere we go they have rules or else face the punishment
aa has none and for some strange reason even the most hardend aa memeber will respect it we have no rules so they shut up when they remember it

but sometimes some get to big for there boots and take ownership of aa and try to run it there way the only way aa members can react to this is go to other meetings as we soon know a good meeting from one that is run by others who have an agenda

so the bottom line is aa is all there is out there that is free 24/7 help and it will help anyone rich or poor
if only the rest of the world could follow aa simple principles in life well i believe we as human beings would all come out better people for it

like this thread has kicked off emptions in people we should all look at it and say hell i am trying to be right again and laugh it off and just be there to help others
not stick to our guns and demand we are right and expect others to respect it as no one will certainly not me
AS I AM RIGHT : )
thanks a joke by the way
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:25 AM
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I am tempted to meet your Bill W. and raise you a Jesus (Matthew 12-13) comes to mind. In both cases, my interpretation is that both were interested in helping as MANY people as possible find love, healing and acceptance, and not at the cost of "religion" or strict adherence to dogma.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:30 AM
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Last Monday after my homegroup meeting, a newcomer said that he wanted to be sober but didn't want to do the work that AA suggests.

I offered that perhaps he wasn't done researching. AA recovery does not happen by osmosis. It takes work. There are other programs other than AA out there. It is not for everyone. I have more than once told someone that by the way they were talking, they did not sound like AA was for them at that time.

I needed to be in AA when I was 18, but I did not WANT it enough until I was 38. "Rarely do we quit while there is still time." Meaning I had 20 more years of using/drinking before I was desperate enough to want sobriety in AA more than anything.

I also had a friend who drank herself to death when I was about 2 years sober. People die of alcoholism all the time. Choosing alcoholic death is a valid choice, IMO. I have made that choice before. I have been told a dozen times that I was not desperate enough for AA. And they were right, I wasn't. However, when I was ready to be sober in AA, there was no stopping me. That was my experience.

I needed all my life experiences to be who I am today and to be able to help other suffering alcoholics. And yes, going back out to keep drinking and become more desperate is a part of that story. And I'm glad. I wouldn't trade it.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:31 AM
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Even though I am in AA I am not trying to defend the program as much as I am trying to drive home the fact that no matter what you do to get sober it requires change. Change in you. If I don't change, no program is going to help me and change takes time.

I did not "get" the AA program until I had some time invested in it. It did not click the first week or two. I guess I just get frustrated watching people run from program to program looking for the best way or maybe what they want to hear when all you may have to do is look in the mirror. Looking at ourselves is action and results come from action.


Originally Posted by RolyPoly View Post
I've been feeling dissatisfied and frustrated with AA in my 10 days....
Can I ask what you are dissatisfied and frustrated with that led you to this person that said that maybe you were not ready?

And I believe she meant not ready to be sober, not that you are not ready for AA. AA is for anybody that has the desire to stop drinking, period. There are no rules to the level of drinking problem you have.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:50 AM
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Pete, UK AA sounds great.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by desypete View Post
so in other words you make selfish judgements on people
Not really. I answer their questions to the best of my ability when asked.

If someone asks me to take them through the steps, I never say no. It is not my job to tell people what to do. It is, however, my job to carry the message of AA and to be honest in all my affairs, including answering a newcomer's questions.

IMO, we underestimate addiction. It kills. This is life or death. If someone wants to use another method, more power to them. AA is not for everyone. It just isn't.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuudawn View Post
I am tempted to meet your Bill W. and raise you a Jesus (Matthew 12-13) comes to mind. In both cases, my interpretation is that both were interested in helping as MANY people as possible find love, healing and acceptance, and not at the cost of "religion" or strict adherence to dogma.
Darn I think I meant at the cost of
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuudawn View Post
Yikes..people are getting kinda riled here.

You know what...AA rooms are basically a sober little chunk of this world. You are going to find all kinds. How many folks do we really resonate with ya know? I am in the service industry and there are just so many different flavours of people and well, a lot of them are a little annoying.

Just because these folks are sober (although the do have experiences to share)...few in these rooms are walking around with masters degree in psychology (I haven't met an Endgame in my local area yet : ). These folks are just flawed human beings like the rest of us.

I know it is easy, especially as a shaky newly sober person, to think these folks SHOULD have all the answers...but that's not just realistic.

I have an absolutely brilliant therapist. I love her..but ya know what, she has given me advice not fantastic sometimes. Last year, when I was sober and around here a lot. When I was upset because my sister jammed out on a "booked" trip away to a music fest and I couldn't find anyone to go with. She completely encouraged me to go it alone. She said it would be good for me to spend time with "me". I took her advice.

Anyone who remembers me from back then will know I darn near lost my sobriety on that trip. When I came back and told her of my experiences she kinda looked a bit troubled when she said "Oh being ALONE was a trigger for you?".

Uh...ya lady.
She has been "recovered" from drugs and alcohol for like 20 years. She was in the AA program for about 5 of that. She is all up on everything regarding human behaviour and addiction etc from her work.

When you walk into those rooms (or log on here)...just make sure you have your "self" with you. Recovery rooms are about sobriety support..nobody is the wizard of you but you.
^^this.


Nobody is the wizard of you but you.

This is why therapy is a crap shoot, why AA is a crap shoot, why advice from friends and (especially) family is a crap shoot with loaded dice, etc.

A few years ago Sheryl Crowe had a line in a song, "Every man is his own prophet, every prophet just a man." amen, sistah.

No one knows me. Only I know me. I am a product of every single experience I have had in my life. No one can diagnose or fix me. No one else understands me. That is the blessing and curse of being a sentient being.

To thine own self be true.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:10 AM
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There is a PROGRAM of AA.
The PROGRAM is doing the steps.

Not your steps, or another interpretation of the steps, or some of the steps.

The program is mapped out in the big book.

When I stopped debating EVERYTHING, and turned to someone, and said, help me out. I want what you have, and I'll do whatever you reccommend, because the way Im doing stuff hasnt really worked out so well to this point, I really got a LOT better.

I understand that this is TOTALLY FOREIGN territory to a lot of alcoholics, because we are largely unwilling to give up the reigns to anyone else.

That is the very reason that it works. It is a leap of faith in another person, and a program.

There are other programs that seem to help people. But I would reccomend against bashing something that you truly havent tried unless you've done the work.

Its like saying you don't like skiing, because you stood at the base of the hill, and looked at it, and drove home.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:10 AM
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I told her that I was struggling to identify with people and that I felt I needed a sponsor that would enable me to mold the program and 12 steps to fit my own specific needs.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RolyPoly View Post
I told her that I was struggling to identify with people and that I felt I needed a sponsor that would enable me to mold the program and 12 steps to fit my own specific needs.
In AA, we don't mold the program to fit our needs, we mold *ourselves*. We act our way in to different and new thinking. Not the other way around.

If AA is to be your method, jump in with both feet and work the steps.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RolyPoly View Post
Thanks everyone. People are also skeptical because I quit without any withdrawal symptoms, and I find myself trying to convince them that I really do have a drinking problem. Do they think I'm making it all up and for some reason want to sit in meetings because I have nothing better to do? I live in California - there are tons of better things to do than sit with a bunch of loons at AA meetings!!

I'm starting to use SMART, AVRT and Women for Sobriety. I also like the Pagan 12 Steps, resonated much more with me than the traditional AA 12 Steps.

Thanks goodness for this board. I'd be on my 2nd bottle of Chardonnay already if I relied only on AA.
You have tried many programs. And yet none have worked. Have you thought abut why this might be?

I found that everyone else and every program was flawed. Everything but me. Until I was able to look myself in the mirror and deal with my flaws I was unable to see the truth in any program.

I had someone also tell me the same thing 9 months ago. It was my sponsor's sponsor. So I ran to RR because of those crazy 12th steppers. Funny, RR did not solve it for me because I was the problem.

I used to think bottoms were about what we lost. I never realized that bottoms are such an emotional thing. I lost myself and then set new bottoms in recovery. When I could go no lower (living that is) things shifted for me.

Good luck - my guess is the solution is not in any of the programs you are exploring but inside you.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel View Post
There is a PROGRAM of AA.
The PROGRAM is doing the steps.

Not your steps, or another interpretation of the steps, or some of the steps.

The program is mapped out in the big book.
Well, how I experience my sobriety is on me. How I interpret others experiences is also on me. When I do my steps, they are mine. They are not anybody's else but mine. Although the program is mapped out, the map is nothing more than the experiences of drunks sharing what did and what didn't work for them. The instant we enter into the spiritual realm is the same instant we distinguish ourselves from others albeit some more than others to be sure.

If nothing else, AA is a great example of sameness and differences between all contributing to the creation of the program, to those who practice it, and to the continuing veracity and vitality of the fellowship.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mfanch View Post
Not really. I answer their questions to the best of my ability when asked.

If someone asks me to take them through the steps, I never say no. It is not my job to tell people what to do. It is, however, my job to carry the message of AA and to be honest in all my affairs, including answering a newcomer's questions.

IMO, we underestimate addiction. It kills. This is life or death. If someone wants to use another method, more power to them. AA is not for everyone. It just isn't.
i dont belive in god so is aa for me or not ?
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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One thing about my alcoholism is that I didn't want to do things the hard way. I was looking for an angle. When it came to feelings, emotions, or pain, I just reached for a bottle. It was the easy quick solution to what I was feeling.

So when I first encountered AA, I didn't want to do it their way. I thought I'd do it easier, faster, and simpler.

Part of my process is realizing that I needed to be able to commit to something that I didn't create, or control, and that maybe I really DIDN'T know what was best for me.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
Well, how I experience my sobriety is on me. How I interpret others experiences is also on me. When I do my steps, they are mine. They are not anybody's else but mine. Although the program is mapped out, the map is nothing more than the experiences of drunks sharing what did and what didn't work for them. The instant we enter into the spiritual realm is the same instant we distinguish ourselves from others albeit some more than others to be sure.

If nothing else, AA is a great example of sameness and differences between all contributing to the creation of the program, to those who practice it, and to the continuing veracity and vitality of the fellowship.
As usual, well said.

I have found tremendous diversity of thought, belief and action in AA. More than I would have imagined.

From the outside, it appeared cultish, everyone in lockstep.

But the truth is so much different.

Overcoming the obstacles in MY mind meant sticking around to find out what it REALLY was, not my preconceived notions.

And I incorporate elements of RR, this site, and other things too!
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by desypete View Post
i dont belive in god so is aa for me or not ?
Only you can decide.

I am a nontheist. I have a higher power I call "not me". AA works for me. So it is possible it can work for you, if you work it.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:07 AM
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Wow. A lot of stuff to digest here.

Want to correct a statement: "You have tried many programs. And yet none have worked." Not true. I have only tried AA. I am now also including RR, SMART, AVRT and WFS.

When someone tells me to "shut up and listen", that doesn't make me want to shut up and listen. It may have worked when I was 5 years old, as an adult, not so much. Questions should be encouraged and answered as best as possible, not dismissed out of hand.

This one really surprises me: "I just get frustrated watching people run from program to program looking for the best way." Wow. No words. If you don't find the best way on the first try please don't look for a better way because that just frustrates me?? Just wow.

I guess my expectations are unrealistic. AA's policy is stated as one of "attraction" rather than promotion. Is it just me or are those attitudes not conducive to attracting newly sober alcoholics? At least the ones that have managed to hang on to a few of their brain cells?

I would hope that if someone asked me for advice and that person seemed to me to be too impatient, was paying attention to the wrong things, and balking when they shouldn't be, I would point out that it is all part of the process and point them to chapters in the Big Book that may be of help. Like somebody did in a response here to my original post.

I would also hope that if I were an AA old-timer and I felt unable to answer questions or understand a newly sober person that had reached out to me I would do my best to refer them to someone with more experience, or someone that had a different viewpoint, rather than ushering them out the door.

Now for some background: How did I come to approach this person? Last year I was in AA for just over a month. I approached a speaker after a speakers meeting and she gave me her telephone number. I never contacted her, instead I went out of the program. I now have 10 days and phoned the speaker as I still had her number and thought she might have some advice for me as to how to fit into AA better than I'm doing this time around. That was her advice.

Another clarification. When I referred to AA "loons" that was NOT meant to be disparaging. I consider myself a loon. Loons are the best people. They are fun, funny, and make the world a more interesting place! Long live loony people!!

Today I have decided I will keep looking for meetings where I fit in better. I will also utilize other recovery methods where they work for me. The people that tell me this is my sobriety, my journey, are right. I'm not quitting because of a few bumps in the road!

Namaste
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:44 AM
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Today I have decided I will keep looking for meetings where I fit in better. I will also utilize other recovery methods where they work for me. The people that tell me this is my sobriety, my journey, are right. I'm not quitting because of a few bumps in the road!
Good.
Since you are willing to try other meetings and (if I am not mistaken) your main problem is to identify with "low bottom" drunks, I would suggest that you look for steps meetings. They tend to be very low on drunkologues and put an emphasis on working the steps instead.
I tended to avoid speakers meetings when I was in early sobriety because I am a "high bottom" alcoholic like those referred to in TomSteve's excellent post.
Since I never smoked crack, got a DUI or made a fool of myself publicly, worked, volunteered, did not lose friends (I drank alone) I knew that my AV would tell me that I was not like those speakers...bla bla bla >we all know that the next brilliant idea from the AV would be to pick up a drink<. I chose to stay on the safe side at least at the beginning and not give it ammunitions.
Nowadays, I am able to identify with people's feelings rather than compare my drinking to theirs but I knew in early sobriety that it could be a bit problematic for me so I stuck to steps meetings sometimes identified by st in the meeting books.
The 12 steps are used not just by alcoholics (we use them in Al Anon too). If you click with them and work them, they are really an excellent tool for having a peaceful, fulfilled sober life.

Anyway, look at all your options and don't pick up the first drink no matter what.
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