IOAA2

The words were: "She said maybe I just wasn't desperate enough and if AA wasn't working for me after 30 days I should go out and see if I eventually hit a bottom that would prepare me better for the program."


It’s perhaps a little difficult to understand for some of us alcoholics with super sensitive hearing.
Years ago the old timers often suggested in a similar situation with “ If you’re not ready your misery is refundable if you want to do more research.”
Try to remember when a lot of us got here we were not the sharp tacks in the box for a long time. Ducking & running.

BE WELL

desypete

but then what would you really know about being desperate ? how far down had to you gone with your drinking ? how long are you sober for ? i thought my bottom was desperate until i met tramps who dont have anywhere to sleep so i knew how lucky i was

desperation is a hell of a place to be and when you have nothing then what more desperation can you have ? its either die or try to crawl your way back
its fine if you have ahome and money and job and your family and loved ones around you who will carry on taking care of you or pay your bills for you while you go off and get treatments
to them people they feel there desperate but can they ever imagine not having them things around them ? or do that take it all for granted ?

i know i am lucky to have had a place to sleep as thats all i had when i came into aa and that was provided for by a hostel run organization

i was despeate enough to want to change my life around many others in that same mess just dont have it and they die

my only hope is others dont end up like that but if there anything like me they will
i once had a family, kids, home, money and a lot of it, a business, no one wanted for anything for years until the drink got worse and worse and i started to lose things one by one as people got fed up with me and my excuses
mine is a well trodden path as countless others ended up going the same way

i really am one of the lucky one to have had a chance in life to rebuild from the bottom up
but i couldnt ever of done it without what i got from the people in aa they were there for me, and it cost me nothng but time, they didnt look how big my bank account was and they to have bills to pay in the running of things but they just relie on members to put in a coin or 2 in the pot
i couldnt even put money in the pot in my first few meetings and i had to sneek on trains without paying for a ticket to get around

i would do anything to get to my meetings were for an hour and a half i would find peace in the rooms
i can look back now and wonder how on earth i did it but i did it because i was desperate the drink couldnt help me anymore

edit
just typing that lot up has made me feel very grateful it might not help anyone else but its sure made me look again at what i have got today that i wouldnt have if its wasnt for the love i got in aa

aa isnt for everyone and i guess it could mean aa is for people who have tried the rest out there but it never worked for them so they ended up in aa as i dont think i would choose aa as my first place to find help with a drink problem as i wasnt as bad as those people : ) YET

gardendiva

I had a home, loving husband, 2 great kids, income, etc. What f***ing difference does it make if I was threatening the lives of innocent people by driving drunk.

AA is for people who want to stop drinking. There is no "desperation test" for membership and people who act as if there is are doing the program a grave disservice.

schnappi99

I don't think its likely anyone is suggesting a drink OTOH if I recall the bb properly, it does suggest a test for anyone who is having 2nd thoughts about if they have a problem;

buy a bottle of your favorite alcohol. Pour a generous drink or two and consume them. Put the cap back on the bottle and put it away and don't drink it or anything else for a month.

If you make it then maybe you don't have a problem. But I don't think many people considering the question would make it... if the very question fills you with horror because you KNOW what would happen next then its pretty well answered.

At which point the question becomes, "how desperate am I to recover"

mick3580

Don't let anyone in aa dictate YOUR truth. With that being said, she was just telling you what she thought. It sounds like, according to you, that what she thought was a mistake. People make mistakes in thinking or saying the wrong things all the time. I hope you continue to find out your truth in aa or out of it.

desypete

i never said anything about aa not being for people who want to stop drinking, and i am happy you still have your kids and loving husband and money etc

i only wish i had been like you and got the help i needed before i ended up in such a desperate state

i didnt listen as i thought it would never happen to me, i to lost my driving licence twice for drunk driving but that never stopped me from drinking nor saving my family, i went to prison for my drunken sprees and that never stopped me even though i swore on my life i wouldnt drink again

i had to reach my own point of desperation in my own life for it to finaly sink in
some people dont ever get to that point and drink right up to death and worse they finaly want to get sober but now can not as there bodys are to damaged that there going to die from it

that must be a real nightmare for anyone who has drunk themselves so far down that now there going to lose there life and it doesnt matter if they give up drink or not the damage is to far gone

thats why i know how lucky i am
and i know you feel lucky to to still have your family and money and everything else you didnt lose thanks to you looking for help like you did

thats all i could wish for all of us
but please dont get angry at my own desperation that i needed as its clear and i am not being rude here that you hadnt hit the lows i did so you can not possibility understand what its like being down in the gutter.

and i make no dam boast about being down there as i would swap places with you any day believe me : )

in short i had the gift of despair as its called and i needed it for me

gardendiva

And some of them will kill innocent people in the process. It is immoral life threatening advice.

ElleDee

That was a horrible thing to say! Was she suggesting you go back to drinking until you hit such a bottom that you'd be ready for AA?

I don't know what to say. AA as a whole saves so many lives but it's not for everyone.

I wouldn't give up on AA yet. You could go for the company of other sober people and there are some good things to learn.

ru12

Gracie:

Sometimes it is hard not to express frustration with what people are exposed to that are trying to recover.

I've been sober for a few years now. Without AA. That is all the backing up I'm going to do about how my way is working for me.

Desperate to try ANYTHING is certainly not always a positive thing. There are many thousands of things I wouldn't try to get sober. One is I'm not willing to suspend my intellect to get sober.

And I've seen many people die from alcoholism. And quite a few in AA, so please spare me how I don't take it seriously.

Hawkeye13

Given that the comment was taken out of context,
I don't think analysis is really much help.

What the OP said to the old timer before has not been shared.
I do know that when someone keeps telling me why they can't do something over and over
it is possible to say something like "well, maybe when you are ready" and
this comment could have easily come from that.

We are only getting one side and limited information, so this isn't productive.

The more important question raised here is what does it take for people to choose to strongly embrace sobriety?

Clearly, that's different for everyone.

schnappi99

It is not advice. It is a test... most anybody who is in doubt about their alcoholism already knows what would happen. If they're going to finish the bottle and drive drunk they're doing that already or they know what would happen if they did. They'll finish the bottle then drive to store for another one and drink that one too.

Not sure why 12 step work is "suspending intellect"... all 12 steps are about using your intellect- discovering the assumptions and maladaptions, learning the emotional short-circuits, discovering and making amends for the bad stuff thats been done. Yes, the higher power is needed but its nature is not specified- everyone finds their own.

trachemys

Roly, that just goes to prove that free advice is worth what you paid for it.

The fact that you recoiled at the suggestion is a good sign.

Rock on.

miamifella

If you read the thread you will see that many of us have heard it. I myself was told many times (and heard it said to others many times). The exact wording was usually, "Go back out and come back when you hit a real bottom."

When I was in the program it was a standard answer for anyone having problems with the second or third step--or for someone with multiple relapses.

What it really is, is a form of self-aggrandizement. The message is, "I was a bigger drunk than you, I had a rougher awakening than you, I am tougher and more stubborn than you."

I think it comes from a resentment against people who decided to seek help before losing it all.

I tried to do the same kind of interpretive dance we see in this thread, to somehow convince myself that it was okay to say this or that it was misheard or that they were just trying to wake the newbie up or that they are longer in recovery so they know better.

But eventually I just had to get honest, say that this was wrong, and get out.

Nuudawn

Yikes..people are getting kinda riled here.

You know what...AA rooms are basically a sober little chunk of this world. You are going to find all kinds. How many folks do we really resonate with ya know? I am in the service industry and there are just so many different flavours of people and well, a lot of them are a little annoying.

Just because these folks are sober (although the do have experiences to share)...few in these rooms are walking around with masters degree in psychology (I haven't met an Endgame in my local area yet : ). These folks are just flawed human beings like the rest of us.

I know it is easy, especially as a shaky newly sober person, to think these folks SHOULD have all the answers...but that's not just realistic.

I have an absolutely brilliant therapist. I love her..but ya know what, she has given me advice not fantastic sometimes. Last year, when I was sober and around here a lot. When I was upset because my sister jammed out on a "booked" trip away to a music fest and I couldn't find anyone to go with. She completely encouraged me to go it alone. She said it would be good for me to spend time with "me". I took her advice.

Anyone who remembers me from back then will know I darn near lost my sobriety on that trip. When I came back and told her of my experiences she kinda looked a bit troubled when she said "Oh being ALONE was a trigger for you?".

Uh...ya lady.
She has been "recovered" from drugs and alcohol for like 20 years. She was in the AA program for about 5 of that. She is all up on everything regarding human behaviour and addiction etc from her work.

When you walk into those rooms (or log on here)...just make sure you have your "self" with you. Recovery rooms are about sobriety support..nobody is the wizard of you but you.

RobbyRobot

Responsibility for my life starts and ends with me. Even when as a child, I now have to be responsible for my early beginnings. Responsibility does not mean I'm at fault. Rather, its important I have an ability to respond to my own experiences.

Being desperate is inevitable when it comes down to saving our own lives. For those who drank and haven't experienced the realization their drinking was wrecking their own lives, desperation is a moot point. For the rest of us who discovered what we were throwing away for the sake of another drink, desperation played big time in quitting drinking.

Either way, its never too early to quit drinking, yeah?

keithj

In the Big Book, AA tries to be very clear about the distinction between what it calls the "hard drinker" and the "real alcoholic". Those terms may, by themselves, be offensive and seem arbitrary to some. However, the authors of the BB thought it important for everyone to determine for themselves whether or not they are a type of drinker that can quit on the basis of non-spiritual help. Obviously, if one can stop drinking without spiritual help, then AA may not be the best fit. To my mind, it's just an honest description of the program of recovery offered by AA.

silentrun

In my first month I had a drug counselor tell a room full of teenager's that people like me where not alcoholics. He wasn't talking about me specifically but his description was more that of an end stager. It irritated me but I completely ignore anyone who would suggest my problem isn't bad enough to warrant abstinence. It sounds like you know what you need to do. That is all that matters.

MIRecovery

If you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it then you are ready to take certain steps.

AA is about triage. I help the ones who want what I have. I have my story and people can accept it or not. I am no one's parent and it is a poor use of my time trying to save people who are not ready when that time can be spent on people who are.

There is no shortage of alcoholics there is a shortage of alcoholics willing to make the changes in their lives necessary

LBrain

the christian bible; Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant - baptists, pentacostal, seventh day adventist, presbetyrian, lutheren and on and on

they all interpret it to fit their beliefs. OR they rewrite it over the centuries, the "original" bible left out quite a lot because the 'group' didn't want to include all truths and structured it to fit what they wanted to ...

the AA big book; .................................................. ........................

pretty much the same, except it hasn't been around long enough for alternative writings to be recognized, and there were a lot of truths left out of it too...

there are a lot of 'kooks' in each group. except my kooks are better than your kooks.

Nuudawn

Is it my imagination MIR or am I sensing some sort of "upset" in this post? The OP is indeed looking for help, hence her post.